Ralph Nader

[PoorManQ45]

Anybody watch the Fox broadcast on election night that had Ralph Nader?

http://video.google.com/videos...ab=wv# ... bsP6XN2dIo

I love Nader. He so pwned the dumbass anchor

*edit* already been added to the wiki for Uncle Tom, lol. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uncle_Tom

Modified by PoorManQ45 at 2:45 AM 11/7/2008
Modified by PoorManQ45 at 2:46 AM 11/7/2008

[SmithSR]

You really have jumped the shark.

Shep had an axe to grind but that didn't make him wrong.

Nader makes a compelling case on the real problem up until 1:22.

He didn't pwn the anchor. Who still types pwn? They both got air time to make their points: Shep angry about language; Nader raising his concern about BO.

You broke the story though! Lightning quick bro.

[Jesda]

I like Shep. He drives a Mazda Millennia and literally plows into people who piss him off. I long to do that.

[PoorManQ45]

The anchor was completely caught off guard by Nader's response.

He had the deer in the headlights look.

He kept trying to overrun Nader with his opinions of was he said.

Then at the end when they went to the round table it turned into a circle jerk of idiots stroking each other.

[Jesda]

Nah, Nader was just an offensive retard.

[PoorManQ45]

How so? He posed a questioned that Obama's actions will answer.

Are you suggesting that by asking if he's going to be an Uncle Tom, a ficticious black character, that he was being offensive?

*edit* I'm an Obama supporter.

[OriginalWheelman]

Uncle Tom is a pejorative for a black person who is perceived by others as behaving in a subservient manner to White American authority figures, or as seeking ingratiation with them by way of unnecessary accommodation.

While I don't agree with Nader's lack of tact, he does have a valid question.

[telcoman]

Nah, Nader was just an offensive retard.

Agreed. He should have stuck to consumer issues.Thats the Nader that I liked. "Unsafe at any speed" was the beginning of the downfall of GM. I'm surprised they have turned out the crap for as long as they have. He should have teamed up with Michael Moore and stayed out of presidential politics. Had he done so we may never have had GWB

Telcoman

[Urabus GodofTraction]

Agreed. He should have stuck to consumer issues.Thats the Nader that I liked. "Unsafe at any speed" was the beginning of the downfall of GM. I'm surprised they have turned out the crap for as long as they have. He should have teamed up with Michael Moore and stayed out of presidential politics. Had he done so we may never have had GWB

Telcoman

You're ****ting me, right? He used "Unsafe for Any Speed", and the poor defenseless Corvair, as a pole vault to fame. He pretty much attacked the Corvair without basis, as it was not the evil he painted it as.

[telcoman]

You're ****ting me, right? He used "Unsafe for Any Speed", and the poor defenseless Corvair, as a pole vault to fame. He pretty much attacked the Corvair without basis, as it was not the evil he painted it as.

No I'm not!I drove one many times and it was a huge POS. As was the Ford Pinto.

The VW beedle was making huge gains in market share and the Japanese were coming up strong.

The US automobile industry sat on their a##es and tried to bs Americans with crap during the 70's 80's & 90's. They did it again recently with turning out huge SUV's instead of developing fuel efficient vehicles.

You can fool people some of the time but you can't fool people all of the time.

BTW my last American vehicle was a 1953 Cadillac that I sold in 1964 when drafted into the US Army. Since then three VW's (first one purchased in Germany) two Mazda's, (one RX4 rotary) one Lexus and my current Infiniti which is the best vehicle I have ever owned.I will never purchase another American vehicle. I still can't forget my first. A 1958 Ford POS similar to this one except mine was black.



Telcoman

[Jesda]

I try very hard to forget my first car, a 1988 Nissan Sentra. Fortunately, Nissan made much better cars after that. My favorite, most reliable, and safest vehicles thus far have been American and German, with the exception of the Q45 and probably the Maxima.

Back to Nader...The NHTSA that Nader helped create determined that the Corvair was NOT unsafe.

I get the feeling that you are the type of person who hears a soundbite, runs with it, and neglects to listen or investigate further.

[Bubba1]

No I'm not!I drove one many times and it was a huge POS. As was the Ford Pinto.

The VW beedle was making huge gains in market share and the Japanese were coming up strong.

Telcoman

No argument about the Ford Pinto being a POS, but that has nothing to do with the corvair. The corvair was far from it. I owned two of those evil corvairs, and they were amazing cars

I would still like to have one today. Nader was so far off the mark with his dumb book, it was almost comical.

[Cold_Zero]

Wait, I thought this thread was about Ralph Nader's comments pointed towards Barrack Obama?? Not about the cars he attacked?

I think his comments show how frustrated he must be getting. Going from a partial spoiler in 2000, where he cherry picked some potential Gore votes in certain key states and having the Green Party recognized for Federal Campaign funds to be relegated to obscurity in the Federal Elections. He got like some 500,000 votes this year nation wide.

Anyway, he is getting old, his campaign and message isn't where it was prior to 2000 and I am sure he is frustrated. I think it was a tacky phrase to use, but what do I know?

[Bubba1]

Wait, I thought this thread was about Ralph Nader's comments pointed towards Barrack Obama?? Not about the cars he attacked?

I think his comments show how frustrated he must be getting. Going from a partial spoiler in 2000, where he cherry picked some potential Gore votes in certain key states and having the Green Party recognized for Federal Campaign funds to be relegated to obscurity in the Federal Elections. He got like some 500,000 votes this year nation wide.

Anyway, he is getting old, his campaign and message isn't where it was prior to 2000 and I am sure he is frustrated. I think it was a tacky phrase to use, but what do I know?

I think the way Nader misled the public with his crusade against the Corvair provides some insight into the value of his opinions about Barak Obama.

Of course the dumb way GM senior management attacked Nader before the book was published also gives insight about their current problems.

[telcoman]

I get the feeling that you are the type of person who hears a soundbite, runs with it, and neglects to listen or investigate further.

No I've been following the automobile industry for a long time.

http://www.time.com/time/speci....html

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chevrolet_Corvair

"The Chevrolet Corvair engine, unique for a United States car, presented a different set of requirements for mechanics, many of whom treated the engine in the same way as they would an engine of normal design, leading to problems.

An engineering weakness not generally highlighted related to fumes and gases entering the passenger area via the heater system, a problem endemic to an air-cooled engine that uses heat radiated from the engine directly to heat air for the passenger compartment. Carbon monoxide and other noxious or deadly gases could enter the passenger areas if exhaust system gaskets aged or failed using this system, since the gaskets were inside the heater box air intakes and air for engine cooling was used for passenger–compartment heating when the heater was on (or leaking). The 1960 model Corvairs used a GM Harrison division gasoline heater located in the front trunk area as its standard heater, similar to the Eberspächer heater offered as an auxiliary heater by Volkswagen as a dealer-installed option. This feature became optional in 1961 and was dropped in 1965 due to weak consumer demand.

Chronic oil leakage from the pushrod tubes, caused by GM's poor choice of pushrod tube seal material, also contaminated the passenger heating air. That air might also become noxious if a 6-inch (152 mm) wide rubber seal almost 16 feet (5 m) long, located between the engine assembly and the body, was not maintained in like-new condition. Another common problem in the earlier years was oil leakage caused by dissimilar metal thermal expansion on the aluminum–and–steel engine. Chevrolet wrestled with several problems of this nature the entire time the Corvair was in production with varying degrees of success. Sandwiching cast iron cylinders between an aluminium case and alloy heads is highly magnified by putting another cylinder on each bank.

The interior air would also be contaminated if the voltage regulator allowed an over-voltage condition and the original battery vent hoses were not attached. The battery, which was mounted in the engine compartment, could emit hydrogen if overcharged. Chevrolet installed special battery caps and hoses that vented the battery to air outside the engine compartment, but these were often discarded by owners during the car's life."

[Jesda]

And a thorough investigation concluded that among the cars on the market at the time, the Corvair was not "unsafe" by that standard. The car didn't mark the downfall of GM. It was in fact the opposite -- a shocking example of innovation and creativity from a stodgy, bureaucratic corporation.

Ralph Nader is a man who has repeatedly exercised poor judgement for personal gain, whether its his pursuit of the Corvair, his silly policy negotiations with John Kerry, or his d!ck comments about President Obama.

[Bubba1]

No I've been following the automobile industry for a long time.

http://www.time.com/time/speci....html

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chevrolet_Corvair

"The Chevrolet Corvair engine, unique for a United States car, presented a different set of requirements for mechanics, many of whom treated the engine in the same way as they would an engine of normal design, leading to problems.

An engineering weakness not generally highlighted related to fumes and gases entering the passenger area via the heater system, a problem endemic to an air-cooled engine that uses heat radiated from the engine directly to heat air for the passenger compartment. Carbon monoxide and other noxious or deadly gases could enter the passenger areas if exhaust system gaskets aged or failed using this system, since the gaskets were inside the heater box air intakes and air for engine cooling was used for passenger–compartment heating when the heater was on (or leaking). The 1960 model Corvairs used a GM Harrison division gasoline heater located in the front trunk area as its standard heater, similar to the Eberspächer heater offered as an auxiliary heater by Volkswagen as a dealer-installed option. This feature became optional in 1961 and was dropped in 1965 due to weak consumer demand.

Chronic oil leakage from the pushrod tubes, caused by GM's poor choice of pushrod tube seal material, also contaminated the passenger heating air. That air might also become noxious if a 6-inch (152 mm) wide rubber seal almost 16 feet (5 m) long, located between the engine assembly and the body, was not maintained in like-new condition. Another common problem in the earlier years was oil leakage caused by dissimilar metal thermal expansion on the aluminum–and–steel engine. Chevrolet wrestled with several problems of this nature the entire time the Corvair was in production with varying degrees of success. Sandwiching cast iron cylinders between an aluminium case and alloy heads is highly magnified by putting another cylinder on each bank.

The interior air would also be contaminated if the voltage regulator allowed an over-voltage condition and the original battery vent hoses were not attached. The battery, which was mounted in the engine compartment, could emit hydrogen if overcharged. Chevrolet installed special battery caps and hoses that vented the battery to air outside the engine compartment, but these were often discarded by owners during the car's life."

Methinks we're still straying of the topic of Ralph Nader. I don't believe the exhaust fume issue made it into his book. But since you bring it up, every owner was well aware of the potential problem. But there were two incredible inventions that took care of it. They're called the window and the vent. Crack 'em slightly and fresh air would magically circulate. As an owner, checking those seals was a regular maintenance item which minimized the risk.

Also the stuff about mechanics having difficulty working on them, that's rubbish.

The main two problems most Corvair owners will cite and are pretty minor : fanbelts and oil leakage. The fan belts wear out quickly because of a 90 degree twist. A prudent owner always carries an extra belt. The oil leakage problem you mentioned was not that big a deal. Most owners kept resealable pints of oil in the trunk to top it off if necessary. My two 'Vairs used a couple ounces every thousand miles. Wasn't much of an issue.Never had an engine problem with either.

Corvairs were very fun cars to own and drive in their day. And those fortunate enough to have driven a 180 hp turbocharged Corsa, will attest to how great they were. Back to Nader. I think if GM had challenged Nader on his proof about the Corvair's handling instead what they actually did, Nader would have been discredited, and probably sued. Instead, GM's arrogance and stupidity made Nader look like a hero. It;s a shame.