Quick S13 differential question

[puerkone]

http://zilvia.net/f/tech-talk/133887-30 ... hasis.html

I found this article about putting a z32 differential in a 240sx. I learned that the differential that na z32, s13 and s14 use r200 differentials. Also, I saw that Twin turbo z32s use R230 Differentials. So my question is, is it possible to install a R230 differential in a s13 chassis? let me know thanks

[hannibal]

It is possible. But not worth the trouble. The R200 is quite strong and can stand a fair amount of abuse. Apparently the axles are the weakest link and typically fail before the diff.

IIRC the strongest R200 combo uses a Q45 R200 diff with a Z32 TT axle and a Q axle. This requires the matching hubs from a Z32 TT or Q45.

[puerkone]

I see. that sounds good. I also found this article online about using a q45 differential. I heard that q45 differentials are r200 differentials with r230 internals because it is a v8 engine. so since it is an r200 differential, is it possible to switch the rear cover and make it fit in a s13 chassis?

I also heard that g35 differentials can fit an s13 is that true? they are r200 differentials with the same bolt pattern as the s13 differentials. 6 bolt pattern.
here is the link
http://570sx.blogspot.com/2009/09/insta ... -swap.html

here is a link of a g35 differential
http://www.tune2win.com/index.php/diy_t ... tallation/

here is a list of final drives of nissan and infiniti differentials
Verified by checking against FSM:

R200, R200H, R200V, R230V, F160 are the differential models. Keep in mind this does not imply the differential housings are the same.

Z33 - MT - R200 - 3.538
Z33 - MT - R200V - 3.538
Z33 - AT - R200V - 3.357
Z32TT - R230V - 3.692
Z32 - R200V - 4.083
G35 - Sedan - AT - R200 - 3.357
G35 - Sedan - MT - R200V - 3.538
G35 - Sedan - AWD - AT - R200 - 3.357
G35 - Coupe - MT - R200V - 3.538
G35 - Coupe - AT - R200 - 3.357
G35 - Coupe - AT - R200V - 3.357
Q45 - G50 - R200V - 3.538
Q45 - FY33 - R200V - 3.692
R32 GTR - RB26DETT - MT - F160 - 4.111 - (Front Final Gear)
R32 GTR - RB26DETT - MT - R200 (Mechanical LSD) - 4.111
S15 - MT - R200H - 3.692
S15 - AT - R200V - 3.916
S14 - KA24DE - 4.083
S14 - SR20DET - MT - R200V - 3.692
S14 - SR20DET - AT - R200V - 3.915
S13 - KA24DE - 4.083 - (Both R200 and R200V)

Unverified (but speculated):
J30 - 3.916 - (I found several sources indicating this number but I don't have a J30 FSM so I couldn't truly verify)
R32 - 4.363
R33 GTS-T AT - 4.36
R34 - 6MT - RB26DETT - 3.96
_________________

[s13drifter88]

yes it is possible to install it. you'll have to have both the axles tho. the r200 uses a longer axle on one side where the r230 uses 2 same length axles. the 230 i believe is also a clutch type (IIRC) and the others are all a vlsd

[lexcrob]

While were on diffs.... does nismo not make that super tall diff anymore sumthin like 4.600<<< i found tons of thread that say its on NISMO but I cant find it.

Im tryin to find the "tallest" diff i can you while bare 75 mph cruising speed i guess. Maybe the 180sx 4.3 one would be about the limit i only have 1/8 mile track close so it be nice.

[s13drifter88]

xterra front diff. i think its like a 5.??? but dont hold me to that

[puerkone]

I see. well I guess the only way to find out is buying both differentials and compare them. I just found out that if I want to use another r200 or r230 differential, I also have to change the wheel bearings because the s13 hubs use 29 spline wheel bearings and the z32 twint turbo use 30 spline hubs. so I guess one way to start is to buy the 30 spline wheel bearings that way I can just buy the axels from a q45 or z32 and will line up with my hubs. I will post some pix as soon as I start buying stuff hehe. But I will definately try the g35 differential because it is the same rear bolt pattern from an automatic car. I will get the axels too since they are 30 spline I just checked.

[s13drifter88]

you could take the axles to any driveline shop and have the ends swapped. i had mine swapped coz the threads were fubar'd when i got my axles

[puerkone]

true that I might do that then. I will buy some parts first before anything.

[lexcrob]

You might be able to swap the ends urself just pop off boot and clip slide out pop on new one? Just like changin a boot just swap end out at same time.

[hannibal]

yes it is possible to install it. you'll have to have both the axles tho. the r200 uses a longer axle on one side where the r230 uses 2 same length axles. the 230 i believe is also a clutch type (IIRC) and the others are all a vlsd

You will need more than axles to put an R230 diff in your S13. Much more challenging then finding axles will be finding a way to bolt in the diff. It is physically larger (wider) than the R200 and the mounting ears dont line up with the S13 subframe. (I'm curious if a TT subframe would bolt into a Z32NA. That would be the only time I'd try a R200 to R230 conversion on a S13, S14, or Z32. Then you add the hassle of HICAS.) The Z32TT R230 is a VLSD.

I see. well I guess the only way to find out is buying both differentials and compare them. I just found out that if I want to use another r200 or r230 differential, I also have to change the wheel bearings because the s13 hubs use 29 spline wheel bearings and the z32 twint turbo use 30 spline hubs. so I guess one way to start is to buy the 30 spline wheel bearings that way I can just buy the axels from a q45 or z32 and will line up with my hubs. I will post some pix as soon as I start buying stuff hehe. But I will definately try the g35 differential because it is the same rear bolt pattern from an automatic car. I will get the axels too since they are 30 spline I just checked.

Measure them before you start throwing money at diffs. Not even sure which two diffs youre talking about, but doing your homework will save you plenty of hassles and dough. I think youre off to a get start.

You'll learn that you cant just bolt in a R230 diff, and neither the S14 or J30 diffs and axles need TT hubs. You only need the TT hubs if youre using the G50 diff. If using the G50 diff, you will need one axle from the G50 and one from a Z32TT. You will also need the TT hubs. I'm willing to bet G50 hubs will work but have not read/seen this before.

I dont know squat about the newer G35/Z33 setups cause I like cheaper, older parts. The G35 axles might be 30 spline, but you also need to verify the length is correct.

Other stuff:
Nissan diffs have 3 types of output shafts: 6 bolts evenly spaced (Q45, Z32TT), 5 bots evenly spaced (some J30's and all? Z32NA), and 2x3 bolts (all? US s13/S14 and some J30).

I dont know why you'd try swapping the axle ends. If you must you a G35 diff, that may be an option (custom axles I mean. I wouldnt try swapping ends). Or maybe some combo of Z32TT, G50, and G35 axles will work.

I'm quite sure the G50 R200 has a 200mm ring inside. Not sure how the unit could be interchangeable with other R200's if it had a 230mm ring inside. And I'm nearly positive the S13/G50 rear covers are interchangeable and allow the G50 diff to fit into an S13.

The J30 diff does have a 3.916 gear.

I just read your links. I'm beginning to suspect the G35/Z33 diff is very similar to the G50/Y33 diffs. I have not been able to compare G50 vs Y33, and have not touched a G35/Y33 diff. Also that parts list in the first link explains which G50 and Z32TT axle you need and where to install them. That article lists pretty much everything you need to know, though I didnt recall that a S14 rear cover must be swapped to put in a Q45 diff. And G50 hubs should work.

[s13drifter88]

well i kno you have to swap the diff cover as with any of the lsd swaps unless you but an OS Giken or KAAZ that drop it. the difference is there is an "ear" on each side for the axle stubb input. thats why there is one longer than the other on s13/14/j30 is because the r200 only has one ear. im pretty sure all you have to use is 2 s13 short axles and go to any driveline swap to have the axle ends swapped from a "triangle 6 bolt" to a "pentagon 5 bolt" so they will bolt up to the stubbs

[puerkone]

sounds good. I have all the parts already with me and are ready to be installed. in order to do a q45 differential upgrade, the last thing is buying the right q45 differential and there are 3 different ones. here is a link with pictures of what I have so far except the q45 differential.

http://zilvia.net/f/sale-items/250822-f ... match.html

Last question, do any of you guys have any preference between any of these 3 q45 differentials?

1990 - 1996 Q45 - G50 - R200V - 3.538
1997 - 2001 Q45 - FY33 - R200V - 3.692
2002 - 2006 Q45 - F50 - R200V - 3.130

The thing is that in my KA24det I am pushing 450HP and I am using the S13 - KA24DE - 4.083 R200V differential and I guess I am interested in getting a q45 differential because I want to get a better mpg and lower my rpms. I know it will make my car slower if I upgrade to a q45 differential but I don't mind because I have a z32 tt 5 speed transmission in my ka24det and if I get the q45 diff. then I won't be burning out my tires on every gear as I floor the gas pedal all the way. Anyways let me know which q45 differential do you guys recommend me to install in my s13. This s13 vlsd makes my car burn out on every gear on 285/45/ 17 sport tires. I don't get why I still do not have grip when I floor it.

[puerkone]

bump

[lexcrob]

WELD IT great straight line traction i like mine ! I was a little sketchy about putting it in reading here and there about it being unsafe and everything. I dont know about a 450hp car tho..... probly a bad idea eh if you only track it i guess it be cool.

I meet a guy with a fully build 600hp ls1 running an s15 diff. I read up on them i guess they are "Helical so pretty good for traction issues not so much for drifting. <thats what i read He said he has absolutely ZERO traction and he had 16in wide alloys in the back!!!!!!!! i didnt even know they made them that wide paid 3600$ for wheels 1200$ rubber...........hehe

I asked him what he ran in the 1/4 he said its not very fun burns out thru 4th so bout 10.4 if he gets any traction...

[puerkone]

hmm wait just to make sure I am getting this right. I see that the s15 has
S15 - MT - R200H - 3.692
and my vlsd has
S13 - KA24DE - 4.083 - (Both R200 and R200V)
and a q45 has these 3
1990 - 1996 Q45 - G50 - R200V - 3.538
1997 - 2001 Q45 - FY33 - R200V - 3.692
2002 - 2006 Q45 - F50 - R200V - 3.130

which one from all of these will give me less acceleration? the vlsd? or the q45? like the lower the final gear , the less the acceleration? or is it the other way around?

[s13drifter88]

Lower final means longer gears. Less acceleration and more top but if you have spinning problems like that longer gears will help but not entirely remedy this problem. How stiff is your rear suspension. Softer suspension can help traction while launching. What is your rear camber. Excessive negative camber reduces contact patch. Think of 255s with only 205 worth of rubber touching. Not much good. Slightly positive (.5*) can aid that quite a bit. It will flatten as the vehicle squats instead of narrowing as it travels negative. Is the car gutted? Most gutting happens in the rear greatly reducing weight over the back tires and increasing wheel spin. Maybe try throwing in a bag of sand or 2?

[puerkone]

I see. well I might try out the s15 helical lsd because I keep hearing good things from it. I don't want to lower the gear too much because I heard that the car will be very difficult to drive while beginning to drive the car in 1st gear. For my rear end, it is very stiff because I have aluminum subframe bushings, tein monoflex coilovers, cusco rucas and toe links, as well with godspeed lower control arms and adjustable progress sway bar. The rear makes a whining noise when I drive because of the rear ridigity. Also, I have a rear strutbar in my s13 hatch. I am running 285/45/17 michelin tires. As far as camber, the center of the tire is sitting perpendicular to the ground. I took it to alignment and I have green numbers all the way. My car is also not gutted. I have 3 backpacks full with books hehe and my sparetire in the hatch.

[s13drifter88]

If camber is 0* then it will travel negative when you launch. Half a degree positive can go a LOOOOONG way. The arms and the bushings wont make much differece excet for resisting driveline deflection. I have all Circuit Sports arms, Stance alluminum diff and subframe bushings and all poly everywhere else. Soften the coilovers as soft as theyll go and maybe relax your sring reload one turn but I wouldnt go anymore than 2. You should see your 60ft's and ET's pick u some from that. Those 3 things can go so far. Slight positive rear camber, softer damening and softer spring preload. For a diff I would consider a good clutch type. You prob wont notice any difference between any of the VLSD's (depending on wear) other than longer or shorter gears. If you can swing it a KAAZ 2 way should should go a long way for you and with great results.

[D-UNIT]

dude you have "450 HP"! You could burnout with slicks. Thats why high hp stock cars have traction control. You just need to practice and use throttle modulation. I drove a 460 hp Dodge Viper once. It could hit 60mph in first gear and 92 mph in 2nd.It had very tall gears and could also burnout in 1st gear as long as I held the throttle down , all the way to redline (60 mph). like over 200+ ft. easy!! the crazy thing is that it had 335/30r18 rubber stock! No traction control = no traction! Your brain is the traction control , Full throttle + 450 hp = SMOKE! No matter what!

[s13drifter88]

truth spoken, my ca with just a red top sr t25, fmic, 3" turbo back exhaust and hks boost controller, safc and n60 maf on 16psi could make smoke for 3 gears solid and I was j30 vlsd. that setup only yeilded 241whp 227wtq on 10 or 11psi, thats been 2 years ago. its going to take some throttle control and if your dumping the clutch at the line try slipping it just a little. it got me a sub 8 second 1/8mi on slicks