although mines doesnt come with an L.S.D, what type do they comewith? 1 way, 1.5 or 2 way?
thanks!
quick question about stock 95 240sx se
you can invest your money into a two way http://www.optauto.com/webstor...pt=31if you find a cheaper price though lemme know
agreedits one way 1.5 VLSDlearn more about ithttp://www.240sx.org/faq/artic...l.htm
agreedits one way 1.5 VLSDlearn more about ithttp://www.240sx.org/faq/artic...l.htm
cool thanks!!
so whats the difference between the two? and where cna i get VLSD? and you can still track race with VLSD right??
thanks a bucnh!
thanks a bucnh!
goto a local junk yard and check the listings for NE 240sx's that were checked in... the junk yard will part of the VLSD unit for a sum price (at least better then what dealerships charge... arm and a leg)
you can track race with NE thing... LSD would be best though
the difference is one way LSD only moved the other tire according to turns.. (outer tire goes further then inner)on a good LSD like 300zx or J30 the tires would syncronize to allow minimal tire slipping... this requires 2 way (LSD)
you can track race with NE thing... LSD would be best though
the difference is one way LSD only moved the other tire according to turns.. (outer tire goes further then inner)on a good LSD like 300zx or J30 the tires would syncronize to allow minimal tire slipping... this requires 2 way (LSD)
a "good lsd" like 300zx or j30?the 300zx, j30, and 240sx all came with pretty much the same viscous lsd (vlsd) from the factory...the j30 is a direct swap into a 240sx (I think some z31's had a clutch type actually, not really sure though). I don't know for sure what the diff is classified as (my guess would be 1-way if they're even rated in such a manner).7HE_DON wrote:goto a local junk yard and check the listings for NE 240sx's that were checked in... the junk yard will part of the VLSD unit for a sum price (at least better then what dealerships charge... arm and a leg)
you can track race with NE thing... LSD would be best though
the difference is one way LSD only moved the other tire according to turns.. (outer tire goes further then inner)on a good LSD like 300zx or J30 the tires would syncronize to allow minimal tire slipping... this requires 2 way (LSD)
As far as viscous vs. clutch vs. helical, they all do the same thing, but helical does it better than clutch which does it better than viscous as far as I understand.
You can track race with anything, best would probably be a 2-way helical diff though. MotoP has a good writeup about diffs and lsds on club4ag too http://www.club4ag.com/faq%20a...1.htm
...and 1-way vs 1.5-way vs 2-way?1-way will lock the diff during acceleration, 2-way locks the diff under acceleration and braking, and 1.5 also locks under acceleration and braking, but doesn't do so as aggressively as a 2-way under braking.
neurovish wrote:a "good lsd" like 300zx or j30?the 300zx, j30, and 240sx all came with pretty much the same viscous lsd (vlsd) from the factory...the j30 is a direct swap into a 240sx (I think some z31's had a clutch type actually, not really sure though). I don't know for sure what the diff is classified as (my guess would be 1-way if they're even rated in such a manner).
As far as viscous vs. clutch vs. helical, they all do the same thing, but helical does it better than clutch which does it better than viscous as far as I understand.
You can track race with anything, best would probably be a 2-way helical diff though. MotoP has a good writeup about diffs and lsds on club4ag too http://www.club4ag.com/faq%20a...1.htm
...and 1-way vs 1.5-way vs 2-way?1-way will lock the diff during acceleration, 2-way locks the diff under acceleration and braking, and 1.5 also locks under acceleration and braking, but doesn't do so as aggressively as a 2-way under braking.
first... read...http://www.240sx.org/links/installs/lsd2/index.htm
and if you have time... specifically for 300zxhttp://www.240sx.org/links/installs/lsd/lsd.htm
we want 2 way LSDnot some cheap 1 way 1.5 OEM VLSD
who'd swap out a 240 VLSD just to put a J30 or 300zx VLSD when you can have better?
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MaineExport
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7HE_DON wrote:who'd swap out a 240 VLSD just to put a J30 or 300zx VLSD when you can have better?
No one!
But lots of people swap open 240 differentials for them. First of all its a cheap, easy, direct swap. As far as the VLSD being cheap (in regard to strength) it is far from it. Unless you're dumping 400+ hp to the rear wheels, you never touch its limits.
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MaineExport
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neurovish wrote:
As far as viscous vs. clutch vs. helical, they all do the same thing, but helical does it better than clutch which does it better than viscous as far as I understand.
They don't all do the same thing, and one doesn't do it better than another. A VLSD does its job quite well, and results in a nearly 50/50 power distribution when engauged. Clutch type LSD's can range from a 100% locked differential (50/50) to a true LSD that allows power splits in different ratios (70/30 for example) Clutch diffs come in all kinds of varieties. Helical is a whole different animal. I believe (but could be wrong) they operate in a manner that doesn't lock output shafts, but transfers power from "the wheels that slip, to the wheels that grip". They all have different applications, and all work in COMPLETELY different ways.
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MaineExport
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Oh.... and there are also "air-lockers" from companies like ARB. An on board air compressor allows the driver to engauge the locker with the push of a button. The air pressure pushes the lock into place and also unlocks the diff... not usually used on cars, mostly jeeps and off-road trucks. Adds a lot of weight with the air compressor, air tank, plumbing, and wiring.
maineimport wrote:No one!
But lots of people swap open 240 differentials for them. First of all its a cheap, easy, direct swap. As far as the VLSD being cheap (in regard to strength) it is far from it. Unless you're dumping 400+ hp to the rear wheels, you never touch its limits.
VLSD is one way thoughwhich means if you coming around a turn and one tire start spinning... it'll over haul and power transfer to it will increase (no TCS)... no silicone crap between the two plates to stimulate TCS cuz it REALLY isnt (this is in reference to your 'LOCKERS' ... you're using the immitation shiet with VLSD) sure silicone works good but its a weird way to look at it operating... a piece of silicone determines my power tranfer
LSD is two way which literally means it can have from 10-90% power distribution... instead of 50/50... so instead of a piece of silicon stopping the distribution to happen... you have inteligence in the parts that recognize it instability...
a "good lsd" like 300zx or j30?the 300zx, j30, and 240sx all came with pretty much the same viscous lsd (vlsd) from the factory
so why replace a VLSD from another car to a 240... i really suggest you read those 240sx.org explanations of V/LSD
J30 would have problems swapping in a S13 body but not S14300ZX would fit fine in S14 but in S13 the axels would need ot be shortened...
Maybe I'm reading your post wrong, but it sounds like you just described an open diff, not a vlsd7HE_DON wrote:VLSD is one way thoughwhich means if you coming around a turn and one tire start spinning... it'll over haul and power transfer to it will increase (no TCS)... no silicone crap between the two plates to stimulate TCS cuz it REALLY isnt (this is in reference to your 'LOCKERS' ... you're using the immitation shiet with VLSD) sure silicone works good but its a weird way to look at it operating... a piece of silicone determines my power tranfer
LSD is two way which literally means it can have from 10-90% power distribution... instead of 50/50... so instead of a piece of silicon stopping the distribution to happen... you have inteligence in the parts that recognize it instability...
LSDs can be 1 way, 1.5 way, or 2 way which refers to whether or not they 'activate' during acceleration or breaking.
a "good lsd" like 300zx or j30?the 300zx, j30, and 240sx all came with pretty much the same viscous lsd (vlsd) from the factory
so why replace a VLSD from another car to a 240... i really suggest you read those 240sx.org explanations of V/LSD
J30 would have problems swapping in a S13 body but not S14300ZX would fit fine in S14 but in S13 the axels would need ot be shortened...
I would put a j30 diff in my car since I've currently got an open diff...I was pointing out that they were the same since you seemed to imply that j30s and 300zxs had a different kind of vlsd than a 240
Damn, looks like too many people think they know it all after playing GranTurismo =). While I admit learning much of the groundwork from GT, I have gone the next step and learned most of this stuff further on my own.
Well first of all that LSD article on 240sx.org is full of wrong information. So noone should reference it as being of any value. The article was right in only a few aspects. It seems that the authro does not undrstand how a differential functions in the first place. Also, tehre seems to be a lot of confusion here about what LSD means, any type of LSD would be suitable to drifting. The 1,5 and 2 way only assist in keeping tyres from locking during deceleration. A helical LSD is only good for surfaces with high grp because it requires load on both tyres to move the helical gears inside, i personally wouldnt choose it to drift, but it would work fine on dry asphalt for drifting, wet slippery surfaces or ice would cause low load on the tires and thereby low lock-up.
The VLSD, fucntions by providing more lockup as there is more difference in the speeds of the axles, and I believe usually have a preload spring to provide some sort of initial resistance to different axle speeds. The faster one axle rotates relative to the other the thicker the silicone fluid becomes; something like a torque converter until is begins to makes the axles both rotate at the same speed. There is no transfer of power (or, technically; torque) to the other wheel. Helical LSD are capable of transfer though. So are some clutch type LSD's with ramps in the casing that hold a pin, or cones and some more advanced LSD's use a hydraulic pumping action from one side of the diff to the other. The new M3 uses such a differential, and I believe the EVOVII does too.
Now for that stuff on 240sx.org, with any differential, regardless of whether any type of LSD or even open; when one wheel is held stationary and the other turned while in gear, you would actually be turning the engine over. So of course it is difficult, this attests NOTHING to the diff being LSD or not.
And cars are not one wheel drive without a LSD, either/both provide torque to the ground, and iether can spin but usually the right rear does because that tyre is less loaded than the left rear in a LHD car, also drivetrain torque in a car with a longitudinal engine tends to force the left rear tyres into the pavement harder. That stuff about some vehicles driving the right wheel and then engaging the left one when the right one is nonsense.
To really understand a LSD you must first understand how a normal 'open-diff' operates, because all LSD's fuction on top of this.
http://www.howstuffworks.com/differential.htm
http://web.mit.edu/2.972/www/r....html
http://www.efunda.com/DesignSt...f.cfm
http://biz.howstuffworks.com/differential6.htm
http://biz.howstuffworks.com/differential7.htm
Understand that the VLSD is not merely a viscous coupling, but uses a viscous coupling between the 2 axles; inbetween the spider gears in an otherwise normal open diff.
http://biz.howstuffworks.com/differential8.htm
Ahh, the torsen (helical) notice what that says about one wheel or axle coming off the ground, some sort or load (torque) is needed to make the helical LSD work.
I hope I havent added more confusion than knowledge on the subject.
And oh yea, I know I'm a newbie but I am a longtime silent member just now registering, and I am personal friends with the founders of NICO, 240sx.org and many of the moderators here. I'm sure they will be glad to back up any of the info provided in this post. =) Cheers.
Sean D.
Well first of all that LSD article on 240sx.org is full of wrong information. So noone should reference it as being of any value. The article was right in only a few aspects. It seems that the authro does not undrstand how a differential functions in the first place. Also, tehre seems to be a lot of confusion here about what LSD means, any type of LSD would be suitable to drifting. The 1,5 and 2 way only assist in keeping tyres from locking during deceleration. A helical LSD is only good for surfaces with high grp because it requires load on both tyres to move the helical gears inside, i personally wouldnt choose it to drift, but it would work fine on dry asphalt for drifting, wet slippery surfaces or ice would cause low load on the tires and thereby low lock-up.
The VLSD, fucntions by providing more lockup as there is more difference in the speeds of the axles, and I believe usually have a preload spring to provide some sort of initial resistance to different axle speeds. The faster one axle rotates relative to the other the thicker the silicone fluid becomes; something like a torque converter until is begins to makes the axles both rotate at the same speed. There is no transfer of power (or, technically; torque) to the other wheel. Helical LSD are capable of transfer though. So are some clutch type LSD's with ramps in the casing that hold a pin, or cones and some more advanced LSD's use a hydraulic pumping action from one side of the diff to the other. The new M3 uses such a differential, and I believe the EVOVII does too.
Now for that stuff on 240sx.org, with any differential, regardless of whether any type of LSD or even open; when one wheel is held stationary and the other turned while in gear, you would actually be turning the engine over. So of course it is difficult, this attests NOTHING to the diff being LSD or not.
And cars are not one wheel drive without a LSD, either/both provide torque to the ground, and iether can spin but usually the right rear does because that tyre is less loaded than the left rear in a LHD car, also drivetrain torque in a car with a longitudinal engine tends to force the left rear tyres into the pavement harder. That stuff about some vehicles driving the right wheel and then engaging the left one when the right one is nonsense.
To really understand a LSD you must first understand how a normal 'open-diff' operates, because all LSD's fuction on top of this.
http://www.howstuffworks.com/differential.htm
http://web.mit.edu/2.972/www/r....html
http://www.efunda.com/DesignSt...f.cfm
http://biz.howstuffworks.com/differential6.htm
http://biz.howstuffworks.com/differential7.htm
Understand that the VLSD is not merely a viscous coupling, but uses a viscous coupling between the 2 axles; inbetween the spider gears in an otherwise normal open diff.
http://biz.howstuffworks.com/differential8.htm
Ahh, the torsen (helical) notice what that says about one wheel or axle coming off the ground, some sort or load (torque) is needed to make the helical LSD work.
I hope I havent added more confusion than knowledge on the subject.
And oh yea, I know I'm a newbie but I am a longtime silent member just now registering, and I am personal friends with the founders of NICO, 240sx.org and many of the moderators here. I'm sure they will be glad to back up any of the info provided in this post. =) Cheers.
Sean D.
Wow, I must be pretty tired, all those typos... LOL almost looks like I am speaking Engrish :pface for those of you who have not yet found the joys of engrish check out http://www.engrish.com
Sean D.
Sean D.
I just noticed that I was not as clear as I thought I had been when I mentioned that article on 240sx.org that was of no use, in my opinion. It is the link below, not the 2 later 240sx.org articles that were posted concerning actual installs.
http://www.240sx.org/faq/artic...l.htm
In fact my roomate wrote that first install article.
Sean D.
http://www.240sx.org/faq/artic...l.htm
In fact my roomate wrote that first install article.
Sean D.
freethinker wrote:I just noticed that I was not as clear as I thought I had been when I mentioned that article on 240sx.org that was of no use, in my opinion. It is the link below, not the 2 later 240sx.org articles that were posted concerning actual installs.
http://www.240sx.org/faq/artic...l.htm
In fact my roomate wrote that first install article.
Sean D.
then i guess you 2nd what i originally postedi posted that link earlier on as well.. and described it... unless 240sx.org, you and i are all wrong then i guess neurovish is right... otherwise he mis heard me
dude?that doesn't sound anything like what you originally posted...and he was saying that the the 240sx.org thing wasn't very good and wrong in some places. I'll leave finding the contradictions as an excercise to the reader, I was just trying to clear up confusing/wrong information, which sean has done much better and more accurately than I could have...7HE_DON wrote:then i guess you 2nd what i originally postedi posted that link earlier on as well.. and described it... unless 240sx.org, you and i are all wrong then i guess neurovish is right... otherwise he mis heard me
Exactly, I dont 2nd anything you said Don. What I was saying is that the LSD article at http://www.240sx.org/faq/artic...l.htmis very mis-leading. That's it.
Sean D.
Sean D.
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s14=pimpin'
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All Canadian 240SX 1991 and up (could begin in '92, not 100% certain) come with VLSD stock, so it may be cheaper for you to locate one up north, if you were interested in an OEM unit.
7HE_DON, please only reply to a post if you are positive the info you are passing is accurate. Well, confusing curb weight w/spring rate is one f up too many, anything you say is complete bull **** IMO, I just hope all the rest of the newbies see that. Hate to tell you buddy, but not everything you read on the net is true, and you don't know it all! Not trying to flame, just trying to shed some light, so take it easy on your reply or else this thread will get locked (don'tget me started buddy).
thanks for the info FREETHINKER, much appreciated!!!
7HE_DON, please only reply to a post if you are positive the info you are passing is accurate. Well, confusing curb weight w/spring rate is one f up too many, anything you say is complete bull **** IMO, I just hope all the rest of the newbies see that. Hate to tell you buddy, but not everything you read on the net is true, and you don't know it all! Not trying to flame, just trying to shed some light, so take it easy on your reply or else this thread will get locked (don'tget me started buddy).
thanks for the info FREETHINKER, much appreciated!!!
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s14=pimpin'
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freethinker wrote:No sweat.
Man I gotta bribe someone to get me more than hubcaps, but at least I'm not drivin moms car anymore
Sean D.
I respect someone's word more when I see that their posts are low and they are offering advice. Shows that you aren't a post whore, y'know? Don't let the hubcaps get under your skin, this site is still new and you got plenty of time to catch up........ or you can go in the ring and just post away!!! Or check up on all of 7HE_DON's "advice" to others and correct everything he says, that should bring your total up!
