Hello all! I'm a new member here, but am reasonably familiar with the 240SX/Silvia. I've helped with an SR20DET engine swap - an S14 SR20 into an S13 Chassis (we ended up having to use two ECUs, but got EVERYTHING working as it should - everything from the variable valve timing to the check engine light). Anyway, I'm seriously looking into doing a SR20 swap for myself sometime in the relatively near future (finances permitting *G*). In fact, I've been looking into it for the last about a year now; this is something I REALLLY want to do, not something spur-of-the-moment. As with all other big jobs I get into, I am trying to find out at much information as I can before I begin (which helps the decision IF I'll begin). I've already done a lot of research together, and have gotten a lot of information, as well as a pretty close estimate of what it will cost me. However, there are a few things that I haven't had much luck at all getting information on via my research on the internet. Now I'm going to try asking some fellow 240SXers for some help. Thanks in advance to anyone whom can provide it!
FYI Before we begin, so you know: I'm looking at putting an S14 SR20 into an S14 240SX (hopefully a '97 or '98). I'll be using the stock turbocharger for at least a while, but I'll be upgrading many other parts for both durability/reliability and for possibly upgrading to a (significantly) larger turbocharger in the future. Due to that possibility, whenever I can, when I'm buying an upgraded part, I'm getting one that would handle the power of the larger turbo. For the time being though, I'm planning on running max boost on the stock T28 turbocharger - probably right around 320 WHP (~350 Crank HP). If I do upgrade to a larger turbocharger, I'll probably be making somewheres between 450 and 550 crank HP (yes, I know what's involved in that kind of power - a LOT more then the turbocharger. Remember, I said this is just a POSSIBILITY *G*). _Ideally_ speaking, where I can I'd like to get parts that would handle these horsepower numbers. Realistically, I know it's not always possible, but keep it in mind.
If I do this project, it will be a somewhat "high budget" job, for this type of thing (Think roughly $10,000-$13,000 in parts, including front clip). What that means to you is that if there is an option between a cheap part and a stronger and/or better performing part, I'll almost certainly go with the better one, as long as it isn't massively more expensive.
Lastly, another thing you should know - I work part-time at an automotive motorsports shop, where we work on a lot of turbocharged cars (mainly DSMs, but a modest amount of other cars too). Hence, I'm familiar with motorsports cars, and have realistic expectations; i.e. I know how much it REALLY costs to do things, I know what parts you really need to upgrade to "do it right", and I know it won't be the most reliable car ever. Mainly, that means I should know most of the basics at least.
Okay, on with the questions:
1. Brake SwapI'm definitely going to do a brake swap with the front brakes on my 240SX. I just need to decide WHAT to upgrade to. I know most people jump to the brakes off of the 300ZX. In fact, I believe that the Silvia brakes (which should come with a front clip) are the same as the 300ZX brakes... if that correct?Anyway, that'd be helpful to know, but it's not my main question here. I know I'm going to be using 18" rims (I already have them on my Intrepid - and yes, the bolt pattern is the same). With that in mind, I know I'll have PLEANTY of space for bigger brakes, so I figure I might as well use it. That, and I also know that I'm a person that goes REALLY hard on brakes, and good braking is VERY important to me. If I can go with an "oversize" brake upgrade (bigger then I theoretically might need) I would think I could also seriously reduce brake fade, and hence also get less warped rotors.
One possible option I have been looking into - but couldn't find hardly ANY information on - was brakes from the Nissan 350Z. It's another Nissan "Z" car, but does anyone know how the brake caliper mounts compare to the 240SX's? Would this be a feasible swap, or way more trouble then it would be worth?
I'm mainly thinking about the larger brakes that come on the track model of the 350Z. If I remember correctly, I think they're 12.8" rotors with Brembo calipers.
If the "standard" 350Z brakes would work fine for a swap, but the larger track model's brakes wouldn't, that would still be plenty acceptable, although not quite as preferable.
2. Limited-Slip DifferentialI'm definitely going to get a 240SX with a stock LSD. However, being a "motorsports" person, I realize that with the horsepower numbers that I'm looking at making, even with the stock turbocharger, the stock LSD probably won't last all that long. Hence, I intend to upgrade this, at least at some point. I know NISMO and KAAZ have VLSD rebuild kits, although they're pretty expensive (think ~$900, give or take $100). If it's going to cost me that much to upgrade, I'll probably drive the car a few months before doing it. However, if I could get something that would work fine and be strong enough for, say, half that cost, I'd probably upgrade it from the start. After all, a towing bill isn't the cheapest thing ever :P.
If it comes down to it, I'd rather shell out the cash for a good one that can handle my demands then to get one that might just break shortly down the road. Remember, if I'm going to spend money to upgrade the LSD, I'd like something that could handle the bigger turbo power, too - instead of having to by ANOTHER one if I do ever upgrade the turbo. So:
What kind of alternative LSDs/VLSDs are there out there, and are they any good? What kind of power can they handle? What kind of "stress" can they handle? (i.e. if I put some modestly wide/grip-minded tires on the back - ones that it couldn't get spinning so easily, hence much more stress on the components).
3. Transmission RebuildsWhile on the subject of drivetrain components, what options are there for rebuilding the Silvia Transmission?
The front clip's stock Slivia transmission should be fine while I'm still on the stock turbocharger, but I realize if I DO upgrade to a bigger turbo, I'm definitely going to have to upgrade the transmission. I'm also going to have to get wider and/or more grip-minded tires, or else making more power would be pointless - but that would also put more strain on the transmission. Of course, there's always the possibility that something _could_ break in the transmission even with the stock turbo, in which case it helps to be prepared and know in advance what would be involved in rebuilding it.
What places would rebuild the Silvia Transmission?Would they allow you to change the gear ratios when they rebuild it?Roughly what would it cost?How much stronger would it be/how much more power could the upgraded transmission hold? (Yes, I know that because of all the different things that effect it, there is no exact number that is the answer to that, but a guess to give a general idea would still be helpful).
FYI I will be getting a custom driveshaft (basically required to do the swap anyway), and it will be able to handle way more power then I'll ever make (think around 800HP/800TQ).
4. Preventing Wheel HopI like to make USE of the power the engine makes, and a critical part of that is using tires wide enough/grip-minded enough to reduce wheelspin to a minimum. However, from what I've heard, wheel hop could be a significant problem; and I know how damaging it can be. Hence, I want to do all I can to eliminate it, at least enough for the tires I'll be using.
I'll probably play around with several different sized tires before actually buying some, but at this point my best "guess" as to what I'll be using is 225s, with a casual tread compound; somewhat better then stock, but not so much so as to break parts. I know I can fit a 245 tire on my rim, so eventually, when the drivetrain can handle it, I'll probably upgrade to some 245s with VERY grip-minded tread. I'm pretty SURE that would wheel hop pretty bad if I don't do anything to prevent it. Who known, perhaps even the casual 225s would even hop. So, from the start I want to take measures to get rid of wheel hop as much as I can.
One thing I'll probably do is get some stiffer aftermarket bushings (Subframe, Differential Mount, and Suspension bushings); I've heard these help significantly, and they don't cost too much. (FYI I believe SPLParts.com has a bunch of these type of things, if you want to see what I'm talking about).
Are there any other "simple" and relatively cheap parts that help reduce wheel hop?
Obviously, by far the biggest factor in wheel hop is the suspension, so that's the next point:
5. SuspensionIs anyone familiar with any GOOD Coil-Over suspension kits that are GREAT at preventing wheel hop?
I definitely intend to get a new coil-over suspension kit for my 240, and a pretty nice one at that - probably at least $1600 to $2000. However, if I KNEW that a certain suspension would almost definitely eliminate any wheel hop problems, I might be willing to spend as much as $3000 on it.
Anyone familiar with any, or have any suggestions?
FYI: I *might* "finish" the car and leave the stock suspension on for a few test drives to see how it does with wheel hop, and THEN order the suspension based on how bad/if it wheel hops.
6. Instrument Cluster and SpeedometerDoes the Silvia Instrument cluster fit into the 240SX? (I'd imagine so, but it doesn't hurt to make sure)Are the wiring harness plugs for it the same?What are the differences between them?
Also, how far can you "recalibrate" the speedometer, and what is involved in this?
The reason I ask all of that is: If it would be feasible, I was thinking about the possibility of using the dash out of the Silvia (which would have KM/H as the "main" numbers on the Speedo), and then recalibrating the speedo WAY down to where the KM/H would actually be MPH; that way, I could get a "stock-looking" dash with a bigger speedo.
I know the Stock S13 240SX Speedo isn't big enough for me - 115 MPH at the top? If I upgrade to a bigger turbo, I'll probably be doing over that in the 1/4 mile! I'm not crazy about going extremely fast, but in a car like this I need to know a little better then 115 MPH.
(BTW, DOES the S14 240SX Speedo only go up to 115 MPH as well? I'm assuming that's the case, but if it DOES go higher (say, at least 130 MPH) then I don't need to worry about swapping the instrument cluster)
7. Rocker Arm StoppersLastly a simple question. Anyone familiar with how effective RAS are at, well, overRev protection? I've read a few threads about these, but they weren't too informative as to if they really helped any significant amount. Do they work as a rev-limiter, or do they just dramatically slow down increase of Revs after a certain point? (I admit, this is one thing I am not very familiar with at all)
I'm all for the "Insurance" of overrev protection, but only if it works and doesn't have any other side effects that would be undesirable. I.e. I may upgrade the head and increase the redline sometime in the future; would they then be a hindrance?
Also, they ARE applicable to the S14 SR20DET as well, right? I'm almost positive they ARE, but not quite - I've found some conflicting information on that one, and would like to know for sure.
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Thanks again for any help you can give me, it is GREATLY appreciated!
Knowing EXACTLY what you intend to do from the start, as well as what options you have if you run into a problem on a project this size, can save you hundreds of dollars.
BTW, nothing important, but I was curious - does anyone know off the top of their head if the transmission from the Nissan Skyline would bolt up to the SR20DET? Is the bolt pattern the same? What about the location - being the SR20 (inline 4) is shorter then the RB25/RB26 (Inline 6), does that mean that the transmission would sit a few inches closer to the front of the car, or is the engine "moved back" by that amount in comparison to the Skyline's?
FYI I know the RB25 and RB26 transmissions are interchangeable, which indicates a vague possibility of compatibility with other engines as well. Just curious...
Questions on Future 240SX/SR20DET Swap
Jesus that was a long read, and I only read abotu 1/4'th of it..
Il lbe brief:
1) Noone has made adapters yet to retrofit the 350z brakes, however it should't be to long before that happens. From my experience as a drifter, auto-x and track days with my car the stock brakes are just alittle weak and the Z32 fronts are just enough. Stock rear with Z32 fronts have always been enough... no need to shell out the cash for the Z33 shyt...
2) the stock Lvsd R200 is a very strong unit and you most likely wont ever overcome it...If you are going to drift, consider a Clutch type unit from kaaz (cheapest and same quality). if you jsut auto0x, track it sometimes and drive on street then a stock VLSD will do the trick just fine. If you plan on dropiing rubber every singel time you move with yoru huge "turbo power" then obviously any lsd will wear out faster than normal. but realistically many dont give the stock unit enough credit and simpyl get rid of them... they work great if they dont have 100k miles of abuse and will hold up to anything as long as you arent drifting or laying patches over and over, cause the viscous fluid does have a thermal breakdown point as in every fluid so when it gets to hot it doesnt hold as well...
3) you dont need to upgrade the transmission, leave it be. If you are seriously going to be making 500+whp then MAYBE think about it, bt other than that leave it be. The driveshaft is also fine, unless you just want to get a one peice unit for other reasons. There are stronger one peice aluminum shafts you can buy, butthey are like $450 and you might as well by a nice clutch for that and leave the drivetrain alone sicne it will be fine. these are not dsm's (i have owned 4 dsm's myself)
4) the parts you listed at the end are al you need and all you can really do to prevent it... I have an S13 vlsd in mine (solid mounts unlike the s14 diff_, SPL aluminum collars and a few otehr things and I do NOT get any wheel hop. Im sure if power increased a lot I would, but its almsot inevitable when you have fatty stickies on teh back andltos of power going to em...
5) noone will be able to answer this for you... like i said I have those aformentioned parts and Tein HE's and I dont ahve wheel hop... but when teh power goes up and the wheels start spinning a little bit is almsot inevitable.
6) this is teh elast of my worries, adn I cannto justify spending the money to recalibrate somethign so it shows when you are traveling at 140mph... that makes no sense to me as who the hell is looking down once over 100mph anyway? I track mine a lot an dhave had s13 and my current s14 and never look at my speedo unless Im makign comparisons or something... i always look where Im going. BUT since you asked, heavy throttle does this recalibration exactly the way you speak of. Try them out
7) these are BS IMO... years of abuse to my (and friends) SR over 7k rpm constatnyl racing...etc etc and I never once had a problem.. tis all a bunch of hype if you ask me. 99% of the people do not build there motor and have the turbo settup to produce useable power up above 7500rpm (rev limiter) anyway.... but then again, why do people buy fender flares and body kits?
Il lbe brief:
1) Noone has made adapters yet to retrofit the 350z brakes, however it should't be to long before that happens. From my experience as a drifter, auto-x and track days with my car the stock brakes are just alittle weak and the Z32 fronts are just enough. Stock rear with Z32 fronts have always been enough... no need to shell out the cash for the Z33 shyt...
2) the stock Lvsd R200 is a very strong unit and you most likely wont ever overcome it...If you are going to drift, consider a Clutch type unit from kaaz (cheapest and same quality). if you jsut auto0x, track it sometimes and drive on street then a stock VLSD will do the trick just fine. If you plan on dropiing rubber every singel time you move with yoru huge "turbo power" then obviously any lsd will wear out faster than normal. but realistically many dont give the stock unit enough credit and simpyl get rid of them... they work great if they dont have 100k miles of abuse and will hold up to anything as long as you arent drifting or laying patches over and over, cause the viscous fluid does have a thermal breakdown point as in every fluid so when it gets to hot it doesnt hold as well...
3) you dont need to upgrade the transmission, leave it be. If you are seriously going to be making 500+whp then MAYBE think about it, bt other than that leave it be. The driveshaft is also fine, unless you just want to get a one peice unit for other reasons. There are stronger one peice aluminum shafts you can buy, butthey are like $450 and you might as well by a nice clutch for that and leave the drivetrain alone sicne it will be fine. these are not dsm's (i have owned 4 dsm's myself)
4) the parts you listed at the end are al you need and all you can really do to prevent it... I have an S13 vlsd in mine (solid mounts unlike the s14 diff_, SPL aluminum collars and a few otehr things and I do NOT get any wheel hop. Im sure if power increased a lot I would, but its almsot inevitable when you have fatty stickies on teh back andltos of power going to em...
5) noone will be able to answer this for you... like i said I have those aformentioned parts and Tein HE's and I dont ahve wheel hop... but when teh power goes up and the wheels start spinning a little bit is almsot inevitable.
6) this is teh elast of my worries, adn I cannto justify spending the money to recalibrate somethign so it shows when you are traveling at 140mph... that makes no sense to me as who the hell is looking down once over 100mph anyway? I track mine a lot an dhave had s13 and my current s14 and never look at my speedo unless Im makign comparisons or something... i always look where Im going. BUT since you asked, heavy throttle does this recalibration exactly the way you speak of. Try them out
7) these are BS IMO... years of abuse to my (and friends) SR over 7k rpm constatnyl racing...etc etc and I never once had a problem.. tis all a bunch of hype if you ask me. 99% of the people do not build there motor and have the turbo settup to produce useable power up above 7500rpm (rev limiter) anyway.... but then again, why do people buy fender flares and body kits?