Questions (a lot of) for my first project

Discuss topics related to the CA18DE and CA18DET series engines.
Inferno56kb
Posts: 9
Joined: Mon Jan 27, 2020 6:19 pm
Car: 89 zenki S13

Questions (a lot of) for my first project

Postby Inferno56kb » Sat Feb 29, 2020 6:43 am

Intro:

Hi guys, some quick information about my project. I've started to restomod a 1989 euro spec 200sx with a CA18DET in Hungary/Austria together with my dad who used to be a mechanic for 20+ years. I've gotten the car reasonably cheap although there is a lot of rust under it, but on the upside i got 1 and 1/2 extra spare engines with it and another 5 speed gearbox. I'm currently in the process of taking everything apart and preparing the body to go to the body shop which will take care of the rust issues around May. The next piece to come out will be the engine and gearbox. I've read A LOT of forum posts regarding how to forge and upgrade the CA but my issue is that almost all of those are around 10 years old at least and a lot of things have changed since than (advancements in technology like turbos, availability of parts becoming scarce etc.), so I wanted to directly ask the experts in this forum about their opinion on the current state of things. I've done work on cars before but I've never done any engine work apart from swapping maps via a cobb accessport on my Focus RS so this is mainly my weakness in the project, but it is also one of the reasons why I want to do this as I want to learn how things work and get a better understanding of my car as I go along.

My goal:

I want to restore the car to as close to "new" quality as reasonably possible with a budget of around 20k for the build itself (this is for everything, body, wheels, suspension, engine, electronics, etc.) considering that I'm doing as much of the manual labor myself as possible to save money where I can.
The purpose of the car is to be my daily most of the time with occasional track days 2-3 times a year. I'll have another car for the winter and s*** weather duties.

The power goal is around 300whp with a smooth and usable power curve. It's less about the raw numbers and more about the car being quick on the road and being able to put the power onto the street with the turbo kicking in as low in the RPM range and boosting as long as possible while being reliable.

My gatherings regarding the engine build

I’m summarizing what I found / read so far about each topic and would kindly ask you to add your experiences, suggestions and alternative options.

[*]Forging:
To make the engine reliable at that power level I'm going to forge the engine but I've read different reports on what to forge and which parts to upgrade and which brands to use. So if someone could give me a guideline as to which parts need to be forged and which should be forged that would be great. The only thing I found multiple times is that Wiesco cylinders are tougher than CP but then again a lot of people seem to be running CP without problems. There are also complete kits for sale for engine rebuilding and I'm curious as to what your opinions on these are:

https://otakugarage.com.au/product/niss ... l-conrods/

[*]Compression Ratio:
In relation to the above point. I've read very different information about increasing compression ratio by going to higher bore pistons. Some said that spool up will be quicker (some said it’s going to be slower), some said that the engine feels quicker due to being stronger before the turbo spools but it actually has nothing to do with turbo spool and multiple people said it’s harder to tune correctly the higher the compression ratio is. I’d assume going to 83.5 bore wouldn’t be the biggest difference in the world but would welcome any suggestions and tips regarding the topic.

[*]Cams:
I'm in the process of reading up on this, but I'm open to any input you guys have on changing the cams to something aftermarket

[*]Turbo:
This is one of my main headaches. I’ve recently driven an SR20 S14 that had a borg warner EFR 6758 and the turbo kicked in at really low RPM (around 3.500ish) and pulled through very hard. The engine was generally pretty heavily modified (320whp) as it was a race engine for drifting, so I’m not sure how many other things factored into the experience. Now as far as the CA is concerned I’ve only seen turbo suggestions from 2010 ish or before and I haven’t found anyone running a modern twinscroll turbo which I imagine should feel a lot better and spool up faster than the older turbos most people are running. If anyone is running anything modern and would chime in that would be awesome as these turbos are quite expensive.

[*]Injectors:
Every thread I read seems to have a different conclusion on what to run in regards to injectors from people saying that 444cc is enough for 300whp to people saying that you need 660cc+ for that kind of power. The question here is as well as to what makes sense financially as the old OEM nissan injectors can be very expensive compared to more modern injectors or aftermarket stuff (I heard some people use evo injectors and they work well)

[*]Ignition:
people seem to upgrade these to the Audi R8 Coils. My main question here is, is this needed / suggested to do this for my goal or is the stock stuff sufficient? Are there any other options that work well without having to modify too much?

[*]Sparkplugs:
I’m guessing these have to be in relation to the ignition setup but I’ve seen people run all kinds of different plugs and gaps. Is there a consensus on how to determine the best possible plug for your specific build?

[*]MAF:
So pretty much Z32 as far as I can tell. Are there any other more modern options apart from that one? This question is also financially motivated as a good quality OEM Z32 MAF costs around 170€ including the plug here and at that price I can’t imagine that there isn’t a better more modern option out there. If there isn’t I’ll just buy a Z32 but it would be nice to have another option.

[*]Boost Controller:
Most people run old digital boost controllers that are either very hard to come by or have horrendous prices. Same as with the MAF, are there any more modern alternatives? The car currently runs some valve that can be manually adjusted but it looks and feels very cheap to me and I have a feeling it would cause troubles in a higher power application.

[*]Intercooler:
I’ll upgrade to a FMIC but here my main question is, are there any good ones out there that don’t run through the place where the battery is in OEM form? I’m most likely going to be putting the battery into the rear anyway but I’m still baffled that this is needed to do a FMIC upgrade. Since the car will be a daily I have to retain the A/C so I’d need an FMIC that clears everything properly.

[*]Engine cooling:
Aluminium radiator with better fans. I’d love some suggestions here as I haven’t had the time to look into this specific topic so far.

[*]Oil Cooler:
I know an oil cooler is highly recommended (if not needed) at the power level I’m aiming for. Again suggestions here would be welcome. Similarly I’ve read that catch cans have to be installed to keep the engine breathing happily but read all kinds of different stuff on how people do this. Is there a “best practice” way?

[*]Engine Management:
This is another sore point. The only thing that seems reasonably priced at around 700€ is Nistune everything else is 2000€ish and that is a tad high for only the engine management system. I want to get a proper tune by a tuner in one of the countries around me, not sure where I’d go as I’m still looking around so this might be also dependant on who will tune the car obviously. I’d love to get some input though as to which is the best option. In regards to Nistune I’ve read that it has limitations compared to other standalone systems but is that worth the huge extra cost of other systems? (I’ve read the engine management stick but again the last post is from 10 years ago)

[*]Fuel pump:
I guess the standard Walbro 255 as that is what everyone seems to be running. I'm open to other suggestions though.

[*]Downpipe / Exhaust:
3” through with 200cpi cat, not sure which one exactly yet.

For everyone that read this far already a big thanks for taking the time. I know a lot of these questions are noobish and there are forum posts about most of this stuff, but as I've said I'm new to modifying engines and I've become increasingly frustrated by reading 10+ years old posts with links/pictures that haven't been working probably for years now. Thanks for everyone's input in advance and have a great day guys and girls.

Best Regards,
Greg


Inferno56kb
Posts: 9
Joined: Mon Jan 27, 2020 6:19 pm
Car: 89 zenki S13

Re: Questions (a lot of) for my first project

Postby Inferno56kb » Sat Feb 29, 2020 7:06 am

Template for answers to make it easier :) feel free to include anything I've forgotten
  • Forging:
  • Compression Ratio:
  • Cams:
  • Turbo:
  • Injectors:
  • Ignition:
  • Sparkplugs:
  • MAF:
  • Boost Controller:
  • Intercooler:
  • Engine cooling:
  • Oil Cooler:
  • Engine Management:
  • Fuel pump:
  • Downpipe / Exhaust:

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float_6969
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Re: Questions (a lot of) for my first project

Postby float_6969 » Mon Mar 02, 2020 9:14 pm

Welcome to NICO! I don't have time to respond to all of this right now, but I'll get back to it later this week.

Inferno56kb
Posts: 9
Joined: Mon Jan 27, 2020 6:19 pm
Car: 89 zenki S13

Re: Questions (a lot of) for my first project

Postby Inferno56kb » Tue Mar 03, 2020 4:26 pm

Thank you very much already in advance @float_6969 :)

Quick update, I managed to find a Z32 MAF for 110€ and an unused Wiseco 83.5 Piston kit (which will have to be adapted for the EU oil squirters but should otherwise be the correct one) for 300€ form someone who abandoned their project. So I'm two small steps further than when I first posted.

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Izento
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Re: Questions (a lot of) for my first project

Postby Izento » Sat Mar 07, 2020 1:31 am

I have some spare time tonight to help out. Now, I'm not the most knowledgeable in this forum, but I can at least point you in the general direction of what you should be looking for.

300 WHP isn't that much and it sounds like you're ready to go all out for buying everything. There's definitely some things that are not necessary for your type of build.

Forging:

Pistons would be a nice added security to help your build and CPs are tried and true. Regardless of what you go with, just make sure you bore out the cylinders AS LITTLE AS POSSIBLE. 83.5mm bore would be just fine, but if the cylinder walls are in good condition, go for 83mm if you can. The reason for this being, you want to leave meat on the walls for future rebuilds, and the CA doesn't have much bore capacity as is. From memory, people started having problems after 84mm, with 84.5 being the max basically (although they do make 85mm pistons for this engine). I personally went with Supertech 83.5 pistons, which have higher silicone content than CP, which means that the expansion rate of the piston metal is faster getting to operating temperature. This means that when you start up the engine, the famous "piston slap", which is basically the pistons wiggilying because they haven't expanded to operating temperature yet. This is important to consider if the care will be a weekend warrior and not strictly a track car. Sometimes I like to take my car out on a whim on the street, so having good piston warm up time is important to me. Also, these pistons are plenty strong for 300 WHP, and my goal is 350.

Just saw your update on getting Weisco pistons. Yes, be wary of the piston oil squirters for those pistons as they don't fit properly. I believe you might have to remove the squirters.

Don't worry about forged rods. 300 WHP for the CA rods is perfectly doable.

Polish your crank, new bearings, baffle your oil pan, ARP rod bolts (Datsun L20 rod bolts you can find on Ebay. Those are the correct ones to get).
https://www.ebay.com/itm/ARP-ROD-BOLT-K ... Sw0V1c5Wyt

Also, consider WPC treatment for your bearings, pistons and even crank (if you can pay for shipping to the US). If I tear my engine apart again, I'm definitely doing this.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jSiC7D8patU

Compression Ratio:
Personally, I would stick with the stock compression ration. You'll make all your power back through the turbo and also, turbo tech is better these days to allow the power to come on quicker.

Cams:
I have Tomei 256 Poncams. They're the easiest to get a hold of and you don't need solid lifters or any change to the valvetrain. At your desired goals, I think this cam profile works best and is completely drop in.

Turbo:

This part is the most subjective. Personally I would look for a GTX3076R twin scroll. Twin scroll has been highly proven to decrease spool time. Also, with the GTX model, they have decreased spool time by increased fin count and a different angle. Ball bearing, super fast, you really can't go wrong. Only word of advice would be to get a custom strong manifold and DO NOT but a premade one. I can't even remember a good premade one for the CA18 other than HKS which only 1 or 2 people have them on this forum and will not sell them due to the rarity.

Even still, a 3076 is kind of overkill, and you could certainly get away with a GTX2871R T28 variant and still hit your numbers. Still has the nice modern fin design and it would bolt directly to the stock manifold, which will definitely not crack.

Personally, I have a GT2871R 48 Trim wheel, which is smaller than the regular ones everyone runs in SRs. Spools great and I get full boost around 3200...I think (can't remember since I haven't driven her in a while).

Injectors:
550cc injectors are fine. No need to go bigger and it's pretty easy to get a hold of these. Someone can add in where to source these. I believe ones from an RB20 work, but don't quote me on that, it's been a very long time since I've looked this stuff up.
Also remember that if you go too much over on cc, it's more difficult for your tuner to tune...ask me how I know (750cc injectors here). 550 should still give you room to grow if you so choose, but not be overbearing on your tuner.

Ignition:
I see no reason to get all crazy with R8 coils, but it is getting harder and harder to find new OEM plugs for the CA18 (or near impossible), so upgrading is kind of a necessity at this point. I've had problems with my coils and it's not fun having misfires and such. You can also just upgrade to Splitfires, which are completely plug-in-play. That's my plan.

Sparkplugs:
With a weaker coil, plugs get a little iffy on what the engine likes. Personally, my spark would break up by running Iridium or Copper. I can only run Platinums. Hopefully when I buy new coils, I can just go to Copper like everyone else. Copper is the most conductive metal (aside from gold), so this will give you the best spark. It's just scientific and there's no need to try and reinvent the wheel.

MAF:

Z32 is good, but you might consider going MAP, which will give you a better consistency when tuning. I personally run a Z32 MAF since I'm a cheap a**.

Boost Controller:
Stay away from manual boost controllers. That's a good way to blow up your engine. As for electronic ones, APEXI is a great brand or you could even go with one of the newer Greddy ones. I've had the Greddy Profec I controller for simplicity and it can't hold boost for s***. I'll be installing my APEXI one soon.

Intercooler:
They're all basically the same, just big wind catchers. The piping is more important. If you can, get custom piping, it will save a lot of headache and blown clamps. There really isn't a great manufacturer for CA18 intercooler piping, so you'll have to do some custom fab.

Engine cooling:
300 HP you shouldn't run into any problems. Just get a new water pump and slap her on when you have the engine torn apart.

Oil Cooler:
Not necessary unless you're in Las Vegas.

Engine Management:

Up for debate for sure. Personally I think Nistune is dated and you'll find less and less people that will be able to tune it. I would go balls to the wall in this category and get a Haltec and build your own harness. Now, I know that might seem daunting, but this area you're basically future proofing and allowing yourself to get a tune from any good shop around your area.

I am currently running a Apexi Power FC from an S14 retrofitted with some harness adjustments.

Fuel pump:
Walbro 255 is a no brainer here. Tried and true. Once again, no need to get fancy for your HP numbers.

Downpipe / Exhaust:
3" all the way. To not piss off everyone, I'd get a resonator in there and a hi-flow cat.

Over stuff:
You can save a lot on just minor stuff like J30 brakes, S14 spindles (if you really desire 5 lug), poly bushings, etc. I would recommend not skimping out on your diff and to get a proper diff like a KAAZ 2 way unless you know a good welder.

Good luck with your build and please start a new build thread here. It'll be nice to see someone working on their car for once in here again.

Inferno56kb
Posts: 9
Joined: Mon Jan 27, 2020 6:19 pm
Car: 89 zenki S13

Re: Questions (a lot of) for my first project

Postby Inferno56kb » Sat Mar 07, 2020 10:42 am

First of all, thank you for taking time out of your day to reply, it's very much appreciated. I have some further questions / remarks to your comments if you don't mind.
Izento wrote:
Sat Mar 07, 2020 1:31 am

Forging:
Pistons would be a nice added security to help your build and CPs are tried and true. Regardless of what you go with, just make sure you bore out the cylinders AS LITTLE AS POSSIBLE. 83.5mm bore would be just fine, but if the cylinder walls are in good condition, go for 83mm if you can. The reason for this being, you want to leave meat on the walls for future rebuilds, and the CA doesn't have much bore capacity as is. From memory, people started having problems after 84mm, with 84.5 being the max basically (although they do make 85mm pistons for this engine). I personally went with Supertech 83.5 pistons, which have higher silicone content than CP, which means that the expansion rate of the piston metal is faster getting to operating temperature. This means that when you start up the engine, the famous "piston slap", which is basically the pistons wiggilying because they haven't expanded to operating temperature yet. This is important to consider if the care will be a weekend warrior and not strictly a track car. Sometimes I like to take my car out on a whim on the street, so having good piston warm up time is important to me. Also, these pistons are plenty strong for 300 WHP, and my goal is 350.

Just saw your update on getting Weisco pistons. Yes, be wary of the piston oil squirters for those pistons as they don't fit properly. I believe you might have to remove the squirters.

Don't worry about forged rods. 300 WHP for the CA rods is perfectly doable.

Polish your crank, new bearings, baffle your oil pan, ARP rod bolts (Datsun L20 rod bolts you can find on Ebay. Those are the correct ones to get).
https://www.ebay.com/itm/ARP-ROD-BOLT-K ... Sw0V1c5Wyt

Also, consider WPC treatment for your bearings, pistons and even crank (if you can pay for shipping to the US). If I tear my engine apart again, I'm definitely doing this.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jSiC7D8patU
I agree with boring out as little as possible which is why I snatched the 83.5mm I've read that things get complicated above and my thought process was, that since the engines have done a lot of miles it might be good to at least take off some of the material off that has seen all those miles by boring it out a little.

Well the silicone amount was something I have never read anything about before :( in all the threads i waded through reading the pistons. I've checked and the wiseco pistons have the same grade metal as the CP so they are very similar in regards to silicone amount. How noticeable is this in a real life scenario? My car would be a daily driver so if I have to let it sit for 15 minutes before I can drive it for example than I'd have to sell these pistons and get supertechs as well. I'm used to sitting in the car and letting it idle for 1-2 minutes before i drive off (and then of course drive carefully without WOT until the engine is warmed up) so this in itself wouldn't be a problem (the focus has a pre warming period where it idles higher until the engine is sufficiently lubricated for example) but depending on how much time I have to wait any time I get into the car it could become a problem if it's 5+ minutes until I can drive off (in that case I'd rather invest more money in other pistons)

Thanks for the info about the rods!

The engine will be polished and ported and the shop that does that work will adapt the pistons (if i stick to these) I've read up on this and supposedly they can grind out the place that the squirters need without upsetting the balance of the pistons, it was discouraged to remove the squirters in all the posts I've found so far so I'd rather have them machine the pistons. Bearings and the ARP bolts I'm planing to get but for the bearings I'll have to check the crank first to measure everything if I understood everything correctly about that topic. Baffling the oil plan I'll look into (haven't heard that term yet)
Compression Ratio:
Personally, I would stick with the stock compression ration. You'll make all your power back through the turbo and also, turbo tech is better these days to allow the power to come on quicker.
Thanks for the input, I agree from what I've read so far.
Cams:
I have Tomei 256 Poncams. They're the easiest to get a hold of and you don't need solid lifters or any change to the valvetrain. At your desired goals, I think this cam profile works best and is completely drop in.
I saw these, they are not cheap but reasonable and were my prefered choice so far as well for exactly the reasons you mentioned.
Turbo:
This part is the most subjective. Personally I would look for a GTX3076R twin scroll. Twin scroll has been highly proven to decrease spool time. Also, with the GTX model, they have decreased spool time by increased fin count and a different angle. Ball bearing, super fast, you really can't go wrong. Only word of advice would be to get a custom strong manifold and DO NOT but a premade one. I can't even remember a good premade one for the CA18 other than HKS which only 1 or 2 people have them on this forum and will not sell them due to the rarity.

Even still, a 3076 is kind of overkill, and you could certainly get away with a GTX2871R T28 variant and still hit your numbers. Still has the nice modern fin design and it would bolt directly to the stock manifold, which will definitely not crack.

Personally, I have a GT2871R 48 Trim wheel, which is smaller than the regular ones everyone runs in SRs. Spools great and I get full boost around 3200...I think (can't remember since I haven't driven her in a while).
the 3076 is definitely too big that would work against my goal of it spooling fast and I don't really plan on increasing power when I'm done with the build, so I'd rather stick to something smaller and specifically aimed at my whp target. The one I'm leaning towards so far is the EFR 6258 or maybe 6758 they come in t25 and are good for 400 or 450 bhp with the second being twinscroll ball bearing the first one being singlescroll but since it's so small it's a beast according to everything I've read so far.

So what you're running is the Gen 2 version of the 2871r with the smaller trim wheel, sounds interesting too, I'll have to do a lot more comparing to do here, sadly I still haven't found a lot of info of these turbos on the CA18DET only how they work on other engines (lot of stuff about the SRs running them). I assume the EFRs would work with the stock manifold as well but I'm not really certain what I have to look out here for, apart from the flange being T25. I do want to def keep the stock manifold and port / polish it instead of swapping to an aftermarket as I've read a lot of stuff about the aftermarket ones cracking and causing issues.
Injectors:
550cc injectors are fine. No need to go bigger and it's pretty easy to get a hold of these. Someone can add in where to source these. I believe ones from an RB20 work, but don't quote me on that, it's been a very long time since I've looked this stuff up.
Also remember that if you go too much over on cc, it's more difficult for your tuner to tune...ask me how I know (750cc injectors here). 550 should still give you room to grow if you so choose, but not be overbearing on your tuner.
Alright I'll look into the 550s, prices are vastly different in Europe though for a lot of stuff so something that might be cheap in the US could cost an arm and a leg here, which is why I try to find alternative solutions like the Evo injectors as those are more readily available
Ignition:
I see no reason to get all crazy with R8 coils, but it is getting harder and harder to find new OEM plugs for the CA18 (or near impossible), so upgrading is kind of a necessity at this point. I've had problems with my coils and it's not fun having misfires and such. You can also just upgrade to Splitfires, which are completely plug-in-play. That's my plan.
Actually the reason why I asked about the R8s instead of the Splitfires is because I can get an adapter loom for the R8s (160ish €) and the 4x coils (120€) for less than the Splitfires would cost me (450€) and I read somewhere that since these are smartcoils they are supposedly better and eliminate the ignition module and are better for tuning. (still reading up on this though)
Boost Controller:
Stay away from manual boost controllers. That's a good way to blow up your engine. As for electronic ones, APEXI is a great brand or you could even go with one of the newer Greddy ones. I've had the Greddy Profec I controller for simplicity and it can't hold boost for s***. I'll be installing my APEXI one soon.
Which one from Apexi are you getting if I might ask?
Intercooler:
They're all basically the same, just big wind catchers. The piping is more important. If you can, get custom piping, it will save a lot of headache and blown clamps. There really isn't a great manufacturer for CA18 intercooler piping, so you'll have to do some custom fab.
This is sadly what I found as well so far, haven't seen any good complete "kit" with nice routing. I have absolutely no idea how much this would cost to get custom made or how hard/easy it is but I'll look into it.
Engine cooling:
300 HP you shouldn't run into any problems. Just get a new water pump and slap her on when you have the engine torn apart.
I'm kind of surprised to read this, I've played with the idea of putting an SR in before I decided to keep the CA and there everyone wrote that the first thing to upgrade would be a stronger radiator with better fans, so this doesn't apply to the CA then?
Oil Cooler:
Not necessary unless you're in Las Vegas.
It's actually pretty cold around here ^^ so good to know
Engine Management:
Up for debate for sure. Personally I think Nistune is dated and you'll find less and less people that will be able to tune it. I would go balls to the wall in this category and get a Haltec and build your own harness. Now, I know that might seem daunting, but this area you're basically future proofing and allowing yourself to get a tune from any good shop around your area.

I am currently running a Apexi Power FC from an S14 retrofitted with some harness adjustments.
Yeah this is giving me a lot of headaches so far. 2k+ that those standalones from Haltec and co. are costing (apart from being uncertain which one exactly would work for my car) is a bit much, but I'll take your suggestion into consideration. Wiring work will be done by someone else, it's the one part of working on a car I hate with a passion, anything electronic ^^
Downpipe / Exhaust:
3" all the way. To not piss off everyone, I'd get a resonator in there and a hi-flow cat.
Yeah I'm leaning towards the ISR Performance MB SE Type -E Dual Tip 3" so far it has a nice stockish look and sounds pretty good. I want a 200cpi sportscat and regarding turbo elbow and downpipe i'm uncertain as I've read that those have to be matched to the turbo you are running, but I'm still reading up on that (it's been a lot of reading these days ^^)
Over stuff:
You can save a lot on just minor stuff like J30 brakes, S14 spindles (if you really desire 5 lug), poly bushings, etc. I would recommend not skimping out on your diff and to get a proper diff like a KAAZ 2 way unless you know a good welder.
S14 spindles are almost unbearably expensive here and I'd need the lca and the ball joints too which usually don't come with them so I'm leaning towards the ichiba conversion but that's 650$ shipped from the US (thanks to customs and transportation fee of a whopping 250$) and they'd still need new bearings (at least most people say the ichiba bearings suck and should be replaced)

Diff I've been thinking on going the S15 route but haven't decided yet. I definitely don't want to weld it as like I said the car is going to be a daily / track car and as far as I know (but correct me if I'm wrong) a welded diff is mainly for drifting and drives horrendously (is loud as f***) for a daily application
Good luck with your build and please start a new build thread here. It'll be nice to see someone working on their car for once in here again.
Currently I'm still taking apart the car so not much to post for a build thread :) but once I get to the juicier parts I'll start one, or maybe when I've disassembled the engine and I might ask you guys for your opinions on the state of the parts. I'm documenting everything with pictures and videos anyway so it's easier to reassemble afterwards

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Izento
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Car: RPS13

Re: Questions (a lot of) for my first project

Postby Izento » Sat Mar 07, 2020 9:19 pm

I agree with boring out as little as possible which is why I snatched the 83.5mm I've read that things get complicated above and my thought process was, that since the engines have done a lot of miles it might be good to at least take off some of the material off that has seen all those miles by boring it out a little.

Well the silicone amount was something I have never read anything about before :( in all the threads i waded through reading the pistons. I've checked and the wiseco pistons have the same grade metal as the CP so they are very similar in regards to silicone amount. How noticeable is this in a real life scenario? My car would be a daily driver so if I have to let it sit for 15 minutes before I can drive it for example than I'd have to sell these pistons and get supertechs as well. I'm used to sitting in the car and letting it idle for 1-2 minutes before i drive off (and then of course drive carefully without WOT until the engine is warmed up) so this in itself wouldn't be a problem (the focus has a pre warming period where it idles higher until the engine is sufficiently lubricated for example) but depending on how much time I have to wait any time I get into the car it could become a problem if it's 5+ minutes until I can drive off (in that case I'd rather invest more money in other pistons)

Thanks for the info about the rods!

The engine will be polished and ported and the shop that does that work will adapt the pistons (if i stick to these) I've read up on this and supposedly they can grind out the place that the squirters need without upsetting the balance of the pistons, it was discouraged to remove the squirters in all the posts I've found so far so I'd rather have them machine the pistons. Bearings and the ARP bolts I'm planing to get but for the bearings I'll have to check the crank first to measure everything if I understood everything correctly about that topic. Baffling the oil plan I'll look into (haven't heard that term yet)
Just be careful about those oil squirters in that you don't break them. Nissan doesn't resell them and you would basically have to buy new used ones from someone on here with a thrashed block.

As for the piston slap, I'm not sure if it's a myth or not, but that's a big reason why I didn't go CP or Weisco. I'm sure someone older and more knowledgeable will chime in on this topic.

Also, consider getting the rod bearing journals chamfered. This allows for more oil to flow onto the rod bearings. Your engine builder should know what this is when you bring the crank in for polishing.
Actually the reason why I asked about the R8s instead of the Splitfires is because I can get an adapter loom for the R8s (160ish €) and the 4x coils (120€) for less than the Splitfires would cost me (450€) and I read somewhere that since these are smartcoils they are supposedly better and eliminate the ignition module and are better for tuning. (still reading up on this though)
Yeah, I think the way to go is probably just using the R8s. Can't really go wrong with that.
Which one from Apexi are you getting if I might ask?
Apexi AVC-R
I'm kind of surprised to read this, I've played with the idea of putting an SR in before I decided to keep the CA and there everyone wrote that the first thing to upgrade would be a stronger radiator with better fans, so this doesn't apply to the CA then?
Noobs end up eliminating the fan shroud and mechanical fan for an electric fan setup to look cleaner. Then they have to get a bigger radiator because the CFMs aren't as good as the stock setup. There's absolutely no need to upgrade the radiator at these HP numbers.
Yeah I'm leaning towards the ISR Performance MB SE Type -E Dual Tip 3" so far it has a nice stockish look and sounds pretty good. I want a 200cpi sportscat and regarding turbo elbow and downpipe i'm uncertain as I've read that those have to be matched to the turbo you are running, but I'm still reading up on that (it's been a lot of reading these days ^^)
I have that ISR exhaust on mine currently since it doesn't get much unwanted attention. The fitment was pretty low for me, especially with the second muffler which sits near the diff area, as it's now the lowest point on my car. I'd recommend deleting that second muffler and putting a resonator or just replacing it with a pipe. The exhaust itself is decently quiet and the extra ground clearance would be nice without that huge second muffler.

Inferno56kb
Posts: 9
Joined: Mon Jan 27, 2020 6:19 pm
Car: 89 zenki S13

Re: Questions (a lot of) for my first project

Postby Inferno56kb » Fri Mar 13, 2020 12:40 pm

Izento wrote:
Sat Mar 07, 2020 9:19 pm
Just be careful about those oil squirters in that you don't break them. Nissan doesn't resell them and you would basically have to buy new used ones from someone on here with a thrashed block.

As for the piston slap, I'm not sure if it's a myth or not, but that's a big reason why I didn't go CP or Weisco. I'm sure someone older and more knowledgeable will chime in on this topic.

Also, consider getting the rod bearing journals chamfered. This allows for more oil to flow onto the rod bearings. Your engine builder should know what this is when you bring the crank in for polishing.
According to the people that have dealt with it the oil squirters should be an easy fix but we'll see, I'll be sure to tell you the updates. With coronavirus the plans have slowed a bit as my car is in the neighboring country and I can't get to it due to travel bans. So it's back to collecting parts atm.
Apexi AVC-R
I'll have a look into the options here. I've read up on it and this actually seems relatively simple, I always thought the ECU controls the boost and that the electronic boost controllers feed information to it but that does not seem to be the case although I guess some standalon ECUs can manage the boost control too somehow.
Noobs end up eliminating the fan shroud and mechanical fan for an electric fan setup to look cleaner. Then they have to get a bigger radiator because the CFMs aren't as good as the stock setup. There's absolutely no need to upgrade the radiator at these HP numbers.
That's good, some money saved I guess.
I have that ISR exhaust on mine currently since it doesn't get much unwanted attention. The fitment was pretty low for me, especially with the second muffler which sits near the diff area, as it's now the lowest point on my car. I'd recommend deleting that second muffler and putting a resonator or just replacing it with a pipe. The exhaust itself is decently quiet and the extra ground clearance would be nice without that huge second muffler.
Ayyy not too happy about the fitment as ground clearance is one of the issues I see in my future. I'm also trying to find the coils with the least drop possible so I can play around with the settings while making sure that I'm still able to drive into my (quite steep) garage and while being able to drive over the endless speedbumps in my city. The thing is, that exhaust has big import fees again so it costs more than twice as much as a standard non name aftermarket exhaust I could get around here and I feel like if I have to work a lot and cut out /replace parts of it than I'm not sure if it's worth the investment, might as well just use a cheap one in that case. Do you have any pictures of how it is mounted, how it hangs? do you think it would be possible to modify the hangers maybe to get it closer to the body?

Another update on the Turbo. It seems that the EFR 6258 needs modifications at the engine mounts and has other clearance issues on the stock manifold (according to some people in the CA18DET facebook group) so that might be an issue as I don't really want to run an aftermarket manifold.

And in regards to the cams the tomei poncams in 256 are not in stock anywhere so it seems like I won't be able to get those.

One slight step forward, I've got a loom for the R8 coils used from someone who is swapping a 2JZ in for 80€ delivered so that's pretty good.

In regards to Engine management, I've stumbled across the maxxecu but I can't really find a lot of information on this apart from the fact that two very popular tuners in Austria and Hungary are retailers for these, I'll contact them next week to ask them about it a bit. One upside would be that it has a built in MAP sensor so I could actually resell the Z32 and use MAP instead. The street version is around 1100$ which is not that bad for a standalone and I'd have two known tuners that map these nearby.

https://www.maxxecu.com/products/pluginecu/nissan_s13

Have you guys heard of these?

Inferno56kb
Posts: 9
Joined: Mon Jan 27, 2020 6:19 pm
Car: 89 zenki S13

Re: Questions (a lot of) for my first project

Postby Inferno56kb » Sat May 16, 2020 1:36 am

Hey Guys, little update on my progress (meaning collection of parts ^^ as I can't work on the car due to the lockdown)

I've got myself a conversion loom for R8 coil and the matching NGK R8 coils
ordered a set of tomei 256 poncams from Tomei via a UK shop that has a direct contact to them, they are discontinued so no shop stocks them anymore but Tomei still produces them in limited number every 2-3 months if they have enough orders, mine should arrive in about a months time.

and the big ticket item was the ECU, MaxxECU did a corona sale and i snatched the Race Premium kit for 1k instead of 1.3k now I can sell my Z32 maf as I'll be going for a MAP setup with the ECU, with that I also decided on my tuner and will have the engine wiring loom remade by them with all extra sensors etc. needed when the time comes.

other than that a few decisions have been made, to improve idle, have a mild antilag and better tuning capability I will convert to e-throttle using a Bosch 0280750151 throtthle body and the gaspedal of a 350z (most likely, there are other options, so this is basically just a price question)

the injectors should be 750-850cc according to the tuner as he said fine tuning it with the ECU is not an issue and I should rather go too big than too small. If you have suggestions for injectors I'm all ears, there are some companies selling Bosch EV14 850cc with adapters for harness and fuel rail for the CA18DET but I'm not sure if I like the idea of adapters to fit the fuel rail tbh.

I'm still pretty set on the EFR turbo so everything related to that will probably have to be custom made, manifold, downpipe, etc. if I do go down that road I might get the exhaust made to fit as well so it sits properly high up. I have found several options for manifolds for the SR20 and EFR combo but sadly nothing for the CA. I'm still undecided about top vs bottom mount as topmount sits pretty close to the brake master cylinder and I could imagine heat being an issue there (LHD car :/)

In other engine unrelated news. I got a 5 lug swap kit off an S14 complete with knuckles etc. with R34 GTR front and R33 GTS-t brakes in the back + brake master cylinder and e-brake cables etc. for 1000€ so I'm super happy about that. I also bought some repair panels for the rockerpanels that are rusted, Chuki sideskirts and Kouki Rear valences (FRP knockoffs but for those I don't really care tbh.) and I've narrowed down my choice of rear wing on the car to either an S14 kouki wing or one of an 2002-2007 Subaru STi, both have been done already and both look amazing (I can post some pictures if anyone cares) and I've decided on the wheel I want to run, It will be gramlights 57DR in 17x9 ET22 and I'm waiting for a response from the UK retailer if he can get them in bronze for me as the car will be anthrazite so it would be a nice combo (due to corona they only have black and pink in stock and no word on what will be produced) these can fit 245s with a pull and roll without having to modify the body drastically and can be run with coils without rubbing in the back.

I'd have one specific engine repair question though. The engine currently in the car (it's not the one that will be restored) doesn't fire on cylinder 3, the previous owner said he swapped the coil already but it still doesn't work. So I'm assuming injector or sparkplug could be another issue or wiring. Anything else I should check? I would like to get this engine properly running before taking it out of the car as I'd like to sell it after my other engine is rebuilt and running (keep it as a backup until then ^^)

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Re: Questions (a lot of) for my first project

Postby float_6969 » Tue May 26, 2020 6:45 am

I would highly reccommend Injector Dynamics injectors. The smallest the make is a 1050, but you'll have no issues with tuning and idle. I'm running 1300cc injectors on E85 and they idle perfectly.

I'm running an EFR7064, twin scroll, T4 flange, EWG, 1.04A/R housing. They're great turbo's. I'm running topmount as well and it basically sucks. heat becomes a HUGE issue. For your power level, I would suggest the EFR6258, with the .80A/R T4 twin scroll IWG turbo housing. If it were me, I'd also spend the money for the 90° outlet compressor housing. It saves a bunch of space. I'd build a custom turbo manifold and bottom mount it. I think other people have gotten it to fit, it's just REALLY tight.

Make sure there's fuel in that cylinder first. If it's not firing, the plug should be pretty wet. If it is wet, then you don't have spark. Lack of spark could be the coil, the harness, the ignition amplifier, or the ECU. The coils and ignition amplifier are your most likely causes and I would start with them. Try swapping coils and see if it changes. If not, then you need to test the ignition amplifier. The directions for that are in the FSM. If you have someone with a known working one, you can swap it in as well and see if it changes anything.

If the plug ISN'T wet, then it's a fueling issue. That can be a bad injector, a bad dropping resistor, a bad ECU, or a problem with the harness. Get a noid light set and make sure the injector is getting power and being fired first. If so, then it's a bad injector.

blownhemi
Posts: 296
Joined: Tue May 19, 2009 3:39 am
Car: S13 200SX CA18DET HX35
Location: Hungary, Eu.

Re: Questions (a lot of) for my first project

Postby blownhemi » Thu May 28, 2020 10:27 am

I would raise the compression ratio. 8.5:1 is pretty old and conservative for that 1.1-1.2 bar of boost you will need for 300hp. I went with 9.2, my tuner, the one and only "Karesz" said with OMV-100 (100 RON), that should be fine for 2 bars of boost with my huge turbo. 8.5 to 9.2 is a small jump, but I've definitely felt the improvement in off-boost low-end throttle response.

But in the end it's most important to talk your planned tuner, or, preferably, multiple tuners about that. There are multiple big names in Hungary who have all done quite a few CA18s.


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