Question for 94_240sx and others re: subframe bushings

[Eikon]

94.. I know you did a nice review of changing out the subframe bushings. Sounded like you were really pleased with the results.

I'm curious if mine are shot..

For a while now I've been getting a squeaking noise coming from the left rear wheel area.. Sounded to me like a bad wheel bearing.. that was my best guess anyhow..

Well, the other day, that squeaking changed to a knocking or clunking sound. It's pretty loud, but only noticable when decelerating or breaking.

I did some searching on NICO and found people mention that if an LSD goes bad, you might get a clunking on deceleration. But, I was talking to another 240 owner and he said that it might be my bushings.

Is there anyway that the subframe bushings (or lack of due to decay) might cause a clunking or knocking noise that seems to correspond with wheel revolutions?

I'm still thinking LSD is the prob.. but I thought I'd ask about the bushings..

Thanks guys!

[94_240sx]

Sounds like bad subframe bushing to me. That's a typical symptom you see when subframe bushings go bad. If it's LSD, you should hear the noise when you make turns at lower speed. Just jack up the car, remove the bolt and check for yourself. It's fairly easy job. If the bushing is completely shot, collars won't do any good. You will still hear the clunking noise with collars.

[madcowvert]

it might not be the subframe it could also be the LSD bushing.

[Eikon]

I'm not sure I'm comprehending what these bushings do to make noise that corresponds with the speed I'm travelling.

I could see them making lots of noise with any sort of vibration or shock to the suspension..

But how would subframe bushings interact with the revolutions of the wheels, axles, driveshaft, etc.. Because the sound is basically perfectly related to the speed I'm travelling.

Now.. something to do with the LSD I can understand because that would interact with moving parts of the drivetrain..

Not saying it couldn't be subframe bushings.. just admitting that I'm a noob with suspension/bushings/etc... and I am not comprehending things..

Thanks for the input guys.

I'll search LSD bushing to see what I can learn about that. Thanks Madcow..

[94_240sx]

Basically, subframe and shell are not connected anymore, so shell moves back and forth, left and right when you take off/stop or make turns. These 4 bushings might be going bad.

Just remove 4 bolts holding the frame and see. You will know what I'm talking about.

Here's some good references.

zerothread?id=235730http://forums.nicoc ... Su...t.htm

IIRC, there's no bushing for the differential. 2 bolts in the front and 4 nuts in the back are hoing the diff. Well, I don't want to say it's 100% subframe bushings. I highly recommend jacking up the car and see if anything's loose also.

[Eikon]

Thanks for all the info..

I am going to get some of those subframe collars.. I did a bunch of homework on it today (mostly posts that you made 94.. )

I did figure out what the clunking noise was.. I was going to take the left rear wheel off and investigate.. Well.. I had only two lug nuts to remove.. YEP.. two wheels studs sheered right off. I couldn't believe my eyes. Good thing I'm cautious and didn't drive it any more. It could have gotten ugly. So now I need to pick up two new studs (maybe 16 so this doesn't happen again) and unfortunately.. a completely new set of lug nuts (I had some special keyed lugs)..

At least I know what it was.. and it's not too expensive to repair!

thanks guys!

[Eikon]

In other news...

I was seriously thinking my diff was shot.. So I was cruising ebay today and managed to find a hidden gem. I bid on it thinking I might get lucky.

Sure enough..

S15 Helical LSD. used. hopefully working.. $58 plus shipping ($65 for shipping)http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors...82744

You gotta love misspelled ebay listing. The reason nobody else bid on it... because nobody else searched for HeRical diff.

[94_240sx]

Wow!! Never heard of running with 2 studs. You could have messed up your car big time. I never thought broken studs will make clunking noise. How would that be??? Anyone? Anyway, I'm glad to hear that you found the problem before things get worse. Good job!!!

[94_240sx]

In other news...

I was seriously thinking my diff was shot.. So I was cruising ebay today and managed to find a hidden gem. I bid on it thinking I might get lucky.

Sure enough..

S15 Helical LSD. used. hopefully working.. $58 plus shipping ($65 for shipping)http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors...82744

You gotta love misspelled ebay listing. The reason nobody else bid on it... because nobody else searched for HeRical diff.

Good job, but you will have to get output shafts, and it's not easy to find a used pair in good condition at decent price. You might have to buy a brand new pair and IIRC, you are looking at about $250-300 range. If you search, you should be able to find part numbers. Last time I heard, jspec can get them for you, and you know jspec is not cheap. You will love it once you install it. I wasn't able to break my rear end loose when cornering. Handles like it's on rail.

[Eikon]

yeah.. 2 studs is bad.. I'm very lucky that I didn't lose the entire wheel.

The sound was the wheel loose on the hub.

The lesson.. If your car is making a strange sound and you don't know what it is.. don't drive it until you figure it out!

I'll work on the output shafts.. maybe another ebay special.

[GoinTopless240]

Hey Gang... I've been kinda dormant lately on the site... I've had tons of training classes dealing with... guess what? wheel retention.. Seth, do you use a torque wrench on your wheels when you put them back on? If not, that would explain why the studs sheared off.. every stud when tightened to the correct torque specs.. stretches. They are designed to do that. When you overtighten them and take them close to the yield point (going past that point is when they break off) they don't stretch anymore and stay that way. They don't clamp correctly and come off. The scariest part is that the driver of the car the wheel comes off of many times is only injured slightly. The flying wheel KILLS people. Yes.. KILLS. Imagine having a wheel flying at your windshield. We've been doing tons of training about this. We got to watch a small video of some guy pumping gas, when WHAM ! he gets nailed by a wheel that came off a car. He didn't get up. It was pretty graphic. I can only pass this along to us car guys. We all like to take wheels off and swap brakes..etc.. I urge everyone of us to have a torque wrench handy. Tighten the wheels with the wheel still in the air (unloaded) and only until the wrench clicks. Then lower the vehicle. Also you guys up there in snow country..... clean your hubs and backside of your wheels everytime you have the wheels off. Also check the torque after 25 miles of driving. Most wheel offs occur shortly after work has been done.

Sorry... I'll put the soap box away now. I get the info most people don't hear about. This kind of stuff is KILLING people. I don't want it to be any of my fellow NICOians.

Seth, on a old note.. I have been flying all over the place the past few months doing this training and have not made any headway with the Vert manual PDF scan. If anyone wants to do this .. I have taken apart the manual and am willing to donate mine if we find someone who WILL get this done. I have an extra and feel this to be my contribution to the group. Send me an e-mail if you know anyone...

Back to the grindstone gang... Talk to everyone soon.

[Eikon]

Thanks for the advice on the wheels studs.. definitely something to be more careful of in the future.

Incredible timing on the 'vert supplement. Ishkabibble just emailed me a preliminary copy of the PDF file.. It turned out very nice. So, you don't need to work any harder on it.

He's going to polish it up a bit and then share it with the forum.

Thanks for your effort though. Sorry yours is taken apart now.

[jamesblonde82]

this is what was done to my vert and seemed to help a lot. i just scanned in the picture of the stuff bought for it. also did some sway bar bushings. no more jiggly wiggly, creeky, poppy, sloppy, whatever. it was actually the old guy who owned it before i did who had the work professionally done and i got a huge stack of maintanance records back from 93' anyway, just thought i would show you what was done, if you look close you see that they are add-ons to the factory bushings.

[gp_says]

only 2 lug nuts??check this outhttp://forums.nicoclub.com/zerothread/257511

[94_240sx]

only 2 lug nuts??check this outhttp://forums.nicoclub.com/zerothread/257511

I want to watch, but video no longer works.