Question about transmission rebuild 1990 Q45

[gniknave]

My Q is currently at a shop in Indianapolis being rebuilt. It was once a Level Ten, and it'll now be back to OEM (or close to it). Well today they got it in and ran it and it wouldn't shift. I don't know many other details, but there is one question I have.

Does anything need to be done with the TCU when rebuilding a transmission? Or is it just a matter of taking it out, rebuilding it, and putting it back in?

[Q45denver]

Nothing else. To late for you, but factory rebuild is usually recommended.

[gniknave]

Between my out of state move last month which included shipping the car, being out of work for 2 months, and just starting a new job and then having my car go out on me, I didn't have factory rebuild money. I had to find a guy that had done a Q45 transmission rebuild before, which I did. The only thing is that he's never done a rebuild on one with a Level Ten transmission. According to him, there isn't much difference between oem and L10 other than the shift kit.

[qship96]

so much for the vaunted level ten transmission.

[gniknave]

The transmission is now done. The neutral switch was bad.

[qship96]

so did the level ten transmission need to be rebuilt,or was the only issue the neutral switch?

[gniknave]

so did the level ten transmission need to be rebuilt,or was the only issue the neutral switch?

It needed a full rebuild.

I had an awful grinding when in park and neutral and it got progressively worse over a period of 3 months. Finally gave out on me 2 weeks ago.

The reason he stated was due to starvation from the Level Ten not having enough fluid passages vs. an OEM(note: I'm going to have him explain it when I pick the car up Tuesday because I'm not saying it right). My entire gear train was completely shot. I went down there to look at it and the gears were BLUE and quite grinded up. I'm going to post a thread on Level Ten's when I get more information.

At first I thought this was all due to a dealers mistake of not filling the fluid to the correct level, but it seems that they only magnified the problem that already existed.

One thing though, even when the transmission was "gone" it still shifted though the grinding was the most awful noise you probably would have ever heard. Sounded like somebody was holding a weed wacker at full throttle up to my exhaust.

So the fact that it still shifted is a credit to the durability of the Level Ten, however I am now convinced that the Level Ten is abit overrated.

[maxnix]

According to him, there isn't much difference between oem and L10 other than the shift kit.

The mechanism is exactly the same, only the materials used for clutch faces and the like are different. Maybe the valve bodies are modified.

I gave up on L10 a few years ago when I passed through, but they couldn't even respond to emails sent weeks in advance requesting an appointment.
Modified by maxnix at 1:44 PM 6/4/2006

[texasoil]

The 'blue color' on the planetary gears is a important symptom--they were starved for lubricating oil and severely overheated.

This can happen if the transmission oil is severely over-heated and literally 'melts' some of the plastic seals. A single WOT 3rd gear run up the 'grapevine' will cook the transmission unless a big oil cooler has been retrofitted. You COULD also have a plugged up oil cooler in the radiator, or the radiator itself is plugged up and not cooling the transmission oil. Gearset failure is very rare

[Q45tech]

I cannot imagine a aftermarket performance transmission mod without a ATF sump or TC output [especially here with a TC mod] temperature sensor.

When a Q transmission fails we always see signs of operator/owner problems:ATF color and or viscosity, sludge in pan, diminished flow rate thru cooler lines......................there is always ample warning with annual examinations.

Owner/operators can destroy even the best equipment.

It is unclear how can you replace the gears [planetary] and others for less than a factory reman [$1600-$1800]?

[gniknave]

If you go back a bit to one of my recent past threads about my Level Ten having problems, you'll see I had a problem with the dealer refusing to drop the pan and cleaning the screen - instead just did a drain and fill. Later on, I found that they failed to fill the fluid to the correct level. Around this time is when I started having problems. Now, this occured in California. I now live in Indiana, so once the transmission was taken apart I couldn't do anything about taking the car to the dealer that possibly screwed it up to show them what happened.

I don't run my fluid through the radiator. It's going through a B & M Transmission cooler in front of my radiator. The guys that did my rebuild did a flow test (they suspected it may be clogged), and they found that it's flowing absolutely perfectly. To answer any questions, yes this guy has done Q45 transmission rebuilds several times before - just not on a Level Ten. I chose him because I got several referrals to him, some even from the dealership I'm working at right now.

The car has been out of the shop for a week and a half, but today I took it back in because the shift from 2-3 was pretty funky, almost non-existant. However there's no noise like there was before, and until today it was absolutely perfect. I'm sure whatever the problem is, he'll fix it under the warranty.

Since it's been out of the shop, I've been very easy on it. I haven't taken it to redline or anything - except today when Wes was testing a Nico ECU in my car. However there's no reason why that one drive should have done any damage. The transmission is supposed to be able to take at least a LITTLE bit of aggressive driving after all.

Yes, the blue gears are due to starvation. What he said he noticed - and said it threw him off his rocker - is the lack of "oil ports" (i think that's what he called it) in the L10. He said they didn't have enough oil ports in the transmission to allow for enough fluid flow, and that's why he think's it failed. What's funny is that everybody that has a Level Ten on this forum has mentioned the same first symptom I got before my transmission was on the road to failure.

So, what I have concluded:

The L10 didn't have enough oil ports for proper fluid flow, but the dealer that screwed up my fluid level just magnified the problem that already existed - speeding up the failure process. My advice to Level Ten owners is to keep your eyes glued to your fluid level to get the most you can out of the transmission. If you start hearing grinding, start preparing yourself. From the time the grinding started on my car, it took 4 months to fail. But when it did fail with a looooouuuuuddd horrible grinding noise and plenty or jerking, the transmission still managed to shift. This is a credit to the durability of the L10's shift kit.

The difference between my L10, and an almost stock transmission (there is still a good shift kit in it) is night and day. My Q isn't as fast off the line as it used to be. I miss the L10 a lot, but I won't go that route ever again. The next time I pay for some transmission work, it'll be for a Z32 transmission if you know what I mean

[DrewQ45]

Thanks for the write Gnik....

I once considered level 10 when my transmission failed but found the price repulsive and ended up going with a JDM takeout. With all the info you have given I'm glad I went the route I did. It's been about seven months now and the JDM unit ($600)is performing impeccably.

...Drew...

[Q45tech]

Performance transmission is all about surviving WOT shifts with increased torque not about getting more than the 100,000 shifts as designed.

As we know a JATCO reman can last 200,000 miles or 7 years IF rigorously maintained [external cooler and ATF changes].............one must balance a $500-$600 used new [non reman] from Japan with 50,000 miles of bumper to bumper traffic....where the ambient temperature is not too warm with A JATCO US REMANN which can cost 3-4 times as much.

The single replacement vs 2-3 replacements [labor charges]........

All depends on how long you plan to keep the car and how lucky you are.

If I didn't know I could resell a USED JATCO reman for $500-$750 [to a Q owner thru T3] depending of mileage or use it in my next Q I would probably gamble and look at some local JDM imports [since there are 3 sources local who will give me a 30 day warranty]........gamble on the 4-5 hour swap and flush ATF loss pan clean/filter...........$500-$600 at risk.

Now if you don't have a local source and are paying freight things add up differently!