Question about Heel-Toe.

Post by **OldmanPurdy** » Sat Aug 06, 2005 8:46 am

I have a question about preforming the heel-toe downshift, ive been practcing this for a few weeks now and I think im getting the hang of it. This may be a very stupid question.......but are you actually supposed to use the heel of you right foot to hit the gas, I sort of twist my ankle and hit the gas with the side of my foot which seems to work but I can't see someone being able actually use their heel on the gas (at least in a s13). Am I doing this right??

Post by **Axel Grungy** » Sat Aug 06, 2005 8:59 am

do it whatever way works for you. i dont really actually use my HEEL its more like the other side of my foot. revmatch however it works for you.

Post by **Joe** » Sat Aug 06, 2005 9:06 am

the "proper" heel-toe is using your toe on the brake, heel on the gas. this gives you the most conrtol of the brake pedal. i know exactally what you are doing because i used to do it in my civic. it works fine just isnt "proper"

i also know how hard it is to figure out how to do in a 240 haha. stupid small japanese cars. i have to move more of the ball of my foot onto the brake pedal to do a "proper" heel toe in my s14.

Post by **OldmanPurdy** » Sat Aug 06, 2005 9:30 am

Ok thats cool I figured there would be no easy way to do it with your heel in this car without dislocating your ankle haha. The way I do it works well enough but sometimes I don't put enough of my foot on the brake and my stupid sneakers slip off and I end up mashing the gas.....yeah that was kinda embarassing.

YouTube · Post by **EZcheese15** » Sat Aug 06, 2005 10:00 am

Actually, if you ever watch some video of a pro-drivers footwork while racing, they typically have their heel on the gas, and toe on the brake. However, my feet don't bend that way....it's much easier for me to do heel on the brake, toe on the gas. But like mentioned earlier, it's whatever is easiest for you. The concept simply means using both the gas and brake at the same time.

Post by **Bubba1** » Sat Aug 06, 2005 10:31 am

Axel Grungy wrote:do it whatever way works for you. i dont really actually use my HEEL its more like the other side of my foot. revmatch however it works for you.

I do it the same way as Axel, and I agree, do whatever feels most comfortable to you.

Post by **Red coupe** » Sat Aug 06, 2005 11:19 pm

Kamin wrote:...i have to move more of the ball of my foot onto the brake pedal to do a "proper" heel toe ...

I used to just kinda roll the side of my foot into the gas pedal, but Ive gotten used to using the heel on the brake pedal. I still do both, I just kinda use the side of my foot during casual driving then when Im more in "driving position" I have my right knee some what turned in so that I can do it like Kamin says...

Post by **seyath** » Sun Aug 07, 2005 4:13 pm

I don't know, I'm 5'11" and I have no problem using the heel on the accelerator and the toe on the brakes.

YouTube · Post by **EZcheese15** » Sun Aug 07, 2005 4:16 pm

seyath wrote:I don't know, I'm 5'11" and I have no problem using the heel on the accelerator and the toe on the brakes.

I think it has more to do with the fact that some people are slightly pigeon-footed, while others are slightly crow-footed. I am slightly crow-footed, so it is much easier for me to have my heel on the brake, toe on the accelerator. Somebody that was slightly pigeon-footed would find it easier the other way around.

Post by **naed240sx** » Sun Aug 07, 2005 4:34 pm

I do the typical toe on brake, heel on gas...took me forever to learn it correctly, but once you get it right its great. It kinda pisses me off though how in my s13 the brake goes so far down before I get real stopping power, so I really have to point my toe in order to reach up for the gas with my heel. I wish the brakes were "touchier". Maybe I will look into getting it adjusted.

Post by **naed240sx** » Sun Aug 07, 2005 4:36 pm

ohh, btw, getting new pedals helps alot. I put some sparco's on my car and now the brake and gas are like 1" awa from each other. Makes it so much easier to use this technique without having to have your foot completely sideways.

Post by **PantherRacer** » Mon Aug 08, 2005 4:28 am

I turn my knee in to get my heel on gas/toe on brake like that too...I couldn't imagine tryign to do that with my knee str8....I like my ankle

but seriously....it's not like you have a camera trained on your feet like drifters in videos so I say do what's comfortable.I find that if I need to slow down more I put my heel on the brake...just instinct I gatta get rid of (or not) I guess

Post by **jEzTeR** » Mon Aug 08, 2005 11:34 am

Great thread!

Post by **ForsakenTH** » Mon Aug 08, 2005 12:47 pm

i think it helps over time if you stretch your ankle too...it used to be hard for me to get my heal to the gas but over time it got easyer...

the real key is comfort because then it will come more naturaly

Post by **OldmanPurdy** » Tue Aug 09, 2005 9:10 am

I tried some of the other methods described here, using my heel on the brake and toe on the gas seemed more comfortable than toe-gas heel-brake, and yeah I am alittle crow footed. I should get some new pedals though, I saw some aluminum ones awhile ago on some no-name site that had the 240sx logo stamped into the metal (silvia was avaliable), looked really sweet..... not sure how well they preform for "spirited" driving though.

Post by **naed240sx** » Tue Aug 09, 2005 9:36 am

http://www.cardomain.com/item/SPA03779AN I have those sparco ones. Yeah, they are really ugly, but they are also cheap and light and grippy. See how they have that extension on the left bottom of the gas pedal? that helps you reach the gas alot, If you do the toe on brake method(which I think is best, because heel-toe is especially usefull during hard braking when the brake is close to the floor, and you would not be able to pull your toe up to give the gas a blip.)

BTW, get screw-in pedals, not the clamp on ones

Post by **jEzTeR** » Tue Aug 09, 2005 11:27 am

naed240sx wrote:BTW, get screw-in pedals, not the clamp on ones

Very true!!!

I had a CRX about 6 years agao and the rubber was wearing bad on the pedals so I picked up some autozone clamp on ones. They worked well for a while then one night I was running some back roads and wone of the clams broke and I almost took out a mailbox. So I just put some screws through them and all was good after that.

Post by **GhostDriver** » Tue Aug 09, 2005 4:31 pm

I actually could revmatch better in my truck than in my '40 because the wheel gets in the way (my knee). Thoughts?...

Post by **naed240sx** » Tue Aug 09, 2005 4:37 pm

I dunno, Im pretty much gonna have to say that everyone should do it with their toe on brake, heel on gas, because it is extremely important to have good control over the brake. This does does give you issues with knee hitting wheel. Raise wheel? get wider racing pedals so that you dont have to twist your leg as much? How tall are you? Im 5-11 and it works pretty well for me, but I couldnt do it in my old integra because my foot had to be nearly sidways to reach both, and my knee would hit. I would say that pedals make all the difference in the world

Post by **Red coupe** » Tue Aug 09, 2005 5:18 pm

the wheel shouldn't be hitting your knee any more then it would during normal driving..try tilting the wheel up slightly. my knee does stick up higher then the wheel, but it sticks up behind it. Its kinda hard to show in pictures but lemme tryclick any for a bigger view...this is sitting normal knee sticks up slightly behind wheel...right knee turns inwards and points at the other knee, for me this almost gives me more leg room then normaltoes stick slightly over the end of the brake pedal while heel rests firmly and comfortably on the gas...from over the shoulder with the knee turned in...

Don't know if that helps but there is how I do it..

Post by **GhostDriver** » Tue Aug 09, 2005 6:55 pm

Thanks, that did help.

Post by **Vettedrmr** » Wed Aug 10, 2005 3:30 am

naed240sx wrote:I dunno, Im pretty much gonna have to say that everyone should do it with their toe on brake, heel on gas, because it is extremely important to have good control over the brake.

That was going to be my comment. The main task when braking is braking, not downshifting. You never want to give up a good braking position just to blip the throttle.

That said, I've found that I downshift late in the brake zone, when, hopefully, I've come off the brake threshold. At that time the engine rpm is lower and I don't have to jump the revs up much to make a smooth downshift.

In fact, when autocrossing, most times I don't even bother with HT, just downshift and let the clutch out. Is there a lurch? Yep. Does it make any difference? Not that I can tell.

The only time I need to do anything special is on the 2-1 downshift. Then I need to actually double-clutch, where you shift into neutral, let the clutch out, blip the throttle, then clutch in, shift to 1st, and go! Remember, HT doesn't spin up the syncros, just gets the engine rpm close to what's necessary for the lower gear.

HTH, and have a good one,Mike

Post by **OldmanPurdy** » Wed Aug 10, 2005 7:55 am

Theres alot of good info comming out of this thread. Red Coupe those pictures helped, I wasn't turning my knee nearly as much as you are and i found I did get more room to play with. Im going to pick up a set of sparcos though looks like they will help big time.

Post by **ForsakenTH** » Wed Aug 10, 2005 12:47 pm

it feels wierd at first but you knee and body will get used to it after you do it more.

Post by **Red coupe** » Wed Aug 10, 2005 12:53 pm

At first it just doesn't feel right, I didn't think I was ever gonna get it but now it feel natural...LOL the first night I tried I I would occasionally slam on the brakes as I tried to press the throttler...rather surprising..

Post by **Veen** » Fri Aug 12, 2005 11:35 pm

I never thought I'd get the hang of it. Then I found a set of gaudy Pilot pedal covers that had an adjustable heel plate on the gas pedal, and adjustable toe plate on the brake. Instead of using the clamps, I removed the rubber covers from the pedals, drilled holes, and actually bolted the covers on as part of the pedal. The gas pedal I had to tap the plastic with, but with some modifications, I got it to fit solid.

Anyway, this made it MUCH easier to do. It's mostly a matter of stretching your heel and knee to be able to bend over, but once you get it down once, it's easier and easier each time.

Also, practice a LOT. I learned to do it in an empty parking lot, and after I got it down to where I didn't need to think, I started doing it on the street slowing down for stoplights, hitting each gear and trying to match the revs and double clutch perfectly. After that, I could do it taking actual turns drifting or autocrossing, and now I do it anytime I have to downshift.

It's fun, and it makes a lot of girls say, "What's that funny thing you're doing with your feet?"

As for what section of your foot, I'm 5'11" with long legs, and still use my actual toe and heel. My dad is 6'6" with huge feet, and just kinda "toe-toe's" it, using each half of his foot.

Post by **Nismo_Freak** » Sat Aug 13, 2005 9:36 pm

It is TONS easier to do in a FWD car like the SE-R or the Hondas.

The interior is less conforming and more open to bodily movement.

I can't do it by swinging my foot out on a stock 240, I have to have a spacer on the steering wheel to give me room.

Post by **swwifty** » Sun Aug 14, 2005 1:45 am

the easiest way to do it is to brake really hard, then downshift. That way the brake pedal and the gas pedal are about even. This makes a quick blip of the throttle really easy. I can never do it if I'm just slowing down slowly, but if I'm braking hard it's rather easy.

Post by **naed240sx** » Sun Aug 14, 2005 7:14 am

hmm for me its kinda the opposite, cause my brake goes pretty far past the gas when im braking hard and its like I have to reach up for the gas. But either way I pull it off

Post by **swwifty** » Sun Aug 14, 2005 9:24 am

well if you have good pads and bleed the brakes good with new fluid, the pedal barely moves

Question about Heel-Toe.

Question about Heel-Toe.

Re: Question about Heel-Toe. (OldmanPurdy)

Re: Question about Heel-Toe. (Kamin)

Re: Question about Heel-Toe. (Kamin)

Re: (Axel Grungy)

Re: Question about Heel-Toe. (Kamin)

Re: (seyath)

Re: Question about Heel-Toe. (OldmanPurdy)

Re: Question about Heel-Toe. (naed240sx)

Re: (ForsakenTH)

Re: (OldmanPurdy)

Re: (naed240sx)

Re: (GhostDriver)

Re: (GhostDriver)

Re: (naed240sx)

Re: (Vettedrmr)

Re: (ForsakenTH)

Re: (swwifty)

Re: (naed240sx)

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