Question about Heel-Toe.
Re: (swwifty)
I just replaced rear pads and rotors and had fluid changed by a shop. It didnt help much. Maybe my ankle is just hinged weird
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InsanityInc
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Re: (Nismo_Freak)
The front wheel drive bit is wierd because, now that you mention it, the Sentra I've driven had plenty of room. It must mostly apply to Japanese cars because I've never had a problem in a FR BMW. However, I too require a spacer in a 240sx.Nismo_Freak wrote:It is TONS easier to do in a FWD car like the SE-R or the Hondas.
The interior is less conforming and more open to bodily movement.
I can't do it by swinging my foot out on a stock 240, I have to have a spacer on the steering wheel to give me room.
Re: (InsanityInc)
how can I find information on doing this? Cause I do like touchy brakes that you barely have to press downInsanityInc wrote:Your brake MC could need adjustment.
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sleepyRPS13
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Re: (naed240sx)
Basically you just spin the rod going to your MC, but you have to be careful not to block the compensating port (if you've blocked it, the pedal will get very hard after you drive the car for a while, and possibly keep the brakes engaged a bit and it will feel floppy when it's cold out).naed240sx wrote:how can I find information on doing this? Cause I do like touchy brakes that you barely have to press down
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slowpoke2005
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Re: (slowpoke2005)
double clutching while up shifting has no purpose any more, the only time you may need to double clutch is to downshift into first....
How stuff works.comthis is a simplified transmission. The collar slides on the shaft and has teeth to connect it to the gear. The gears themselves are always meshed and are free to rotate on the shaft labeled "To differential" . The collar can slide onto either of the gears and is splined onto the shaft and spins with it at all times...
For the sake of simplicity we will imagine the left most set of gears is a 1:1 ratio. So for every turn of the engine the lower shaft also turns onceWe will also say that the the gear set on the left of the collar has a 2:1 ratio and the gear set on the right has a 1:2 ratio
In second gear with the engine spinning 2k rpm the output from the transmission would be 4k rpm. So if you put it in first in this oversimplified model and If you were cruising at 2k rpm the wheels would be sponging at 4k rpm (ignoring final drive for simplicity)If you were to downshift to first to keep the wheels from having to suddenly change speed the output shaft must stay at the same speed. How ever for the collar to engage with the gear with out grinding the speed of the input shaft must change to 8k rpm
So when double clutching you press in the clutch pedal and put it in neutral then re-engage the clutch so the the engine is turning the input shaft, once the engine is at the proper rpm for the gear being selected (either letting the rpms drop to the proper speed for an up shift, or revving the engine to the proper speed for a downshift) the clutch is pressed again and you shift it into gear. This used to be something you HAD to do for every gear, but some one invented the synchronizer, witch is basically a friction surface in between the collar and the gear. This surface makes contact first and allows the gears to synchronize there speed so that you don't have to do it manually...
Heel toe is along the same idea. When downshifting, rather then slipping the clutch to make up the difference in speed between the engine and the rest of the drive train in a downshift you manually bring the engine up to the proper speed by reving the engine with the heel of your foot while braking with your toes...(or how ever you wanna do it)the main benefit of heel toe is that it allows you to select the proper gear to accelerate through a corner while braking for it, with the least amount of extra load on the drive train possible...
How stuff works.comthis is a simplified transmission. The collar slides on the shaft and has teeth to connect it to the gear. The gears themselves are always meshed and are free to rotate on the shaft labeled "To differential" . The collar can slide onto either of the gears and is splined onto the shaft and spins with it at all times...
For the sake of simplicity we will imagine the left most set of gears is a 1:1 ratio. So for every turn of the engine the lower shaft also turns onceWe will also say that the the gear set on the left of the collar has a 2:1 ratio and the gear set on the right has a 1:2 ratio
In second gear with the engine spinning 2k rpm the output from the transmission would be 4k rpm. So if you put it in first in this oversimplified model and If you were cruising at 2k rpm the wheels would be sponging at 4k rpm (ignoring final drive for simplicity)If you were to downshift to first to keep the wheels from having to suddenly change speed the output shaft must stay at the same speed. How ever for the collar to engage with the gear with out grinding the speed of the input shaft must change to 8k rpm
So when double clutching you press in the clutch pedal and put it in neutral then re-engage the clutch so the the engine is turning the input shaft, once the engine is at the proper rpm for the gear being selected (either letting the rpms drop to the proper speed for an up shift, or revving the engine to the proper speed for a downshift) the clutch is pressed again and you shift it into gear. This used to be something you HAD to do for every gear, but some one invented the synchronizer, witch is basically a friction surface in between the collar and the gear. This surface makes contact first and allows the gears to synchronize there speed so that you don't have to do it manually...
Heel toe is along the same idea. When downshifting, rather then slipping the clutch to make up the difference in speed between the engine and the rest of the drive train in a downshift you manually bring the engine up to the proper speed by reving the engine with the heel of your foot while braking with your toes...(or how ever you wanna do it)the main benefit of heel toe is that it allows you to select the proper gear to accelerate through a corner while braking for it, with the least amount of extra load on the drive train possible...
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sleepyRPS13
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HashiriyaS14
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I do a normal heel-toe, with the toe on the brake and the heel blipping the throttle.
I initially found the toughest part to be maintaining constant pressure on the brakes while blipping, something that won't really strike you as important until you try a downshift while coming up fast on a corner.
The whole point of a heel-toe downshift is to accomplish the downshift as smoothly as possible while braking, and so maintaining a very constant amount of pressure on the brake is critical.
The way I practiced was to begin coasting up to lights in neutral, toe on the brake, keeping pressure as constant as possible, while blipping the throttle with my heel in neutral. When I could do it without affecting my braking force at all, I started using the technique whilst actually downshifting.
Of course, this is really one of the last steps, you have to be able to competently perform a regular rev-matched downshift in your car first (i.e. not while braking) in order to be able to later integrate the braking component.
I initially found the toughest part to be maintaining constant pressure on the brakes while blipping, something that won't really strike you as important until you try a downshift while coming up fast on a corner.
The whole point of a heel-toe downshift is to accomplish the downshift as smoothly as possible while braking, and so maintaining a very constant amount of pressure on the brake is critical.
The way I practiced was to begin coasting up to lights in neutral, toe on the brake, keeping pressure as constant as possible, while blipping the throttle with my heel in neutral. When I could do it without affecting my braking force at all, I started using the technique whilst actually downshifting.
Of course, this is really one of the last steps, you have to be able to competently perform a regular rev-matched downshift in your car first (i.e. not while braking) in order to be able to later integrate the braking component.
I also used to just twist my ankle to blip the gas, but just keep practicing and think about it.
Now i find that if i put my toes near the center/top of the brake pedal i can blip the throttle fairly easy. its very important to keep constant pressure on the brake, since thats what you are trying to accomplish.
however i disagree with the theory of it being much easier in a FWD than RWD. its much harder to do in a civic than a s2000 (using the s2000 as an example because i was driving one yesterday).
just try to place your foot to where you can get a good constant pressure on the brake with enough left over to blip the gas. it seems to really help when you are braking hard. hope my info helps.
Now i find that if i put my toes near the center/top of the brake pedal i can blip the throttle fairly easy. its very important to keep constant pressure on the brake, since thats what you are trying to accomplish.
however i disagree with the theory of it being much easier in a FWD than RWD. its much harder to do in a civic than a s2000 (using the s2000 as an example because i was driving one yesterday).
just try to place your foot to where you can get a good constant pressure on the brake with enough left over to blip the gas. it seems to really help when you are braking hard. hope my info helps.
Re: (Lsnaple)
why would ff or fr have any difference in ability to heel-toe? The only things that matter are placement of pedals and sensitivity of pedals. Drivetrain is unrelated.
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EZcheese15
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Re: (naed240sx)
I think Nismo Freak's point was that a FF car does not have a drive shaft tunnel, and therefore has more cabin room. Any car with a driveshaft typically has a larger center console to make room for it, which means less room for your leg.naed240sx wrote:why would ff or fr have any difference in ability to heel-toe? The only things that matter are placement of pedals and sensitivity of pedals. Drivetrain is unrelated.
even in a FF, that place is still taken up with the linkage and transmission **** ( not exactly sure how to put all of this, ive only owned one FF and 3 FR) . ive also found that while driving a FF i seem to be sitting at a higher center of gravity, as opposed to all FR that ive driven or riden in ive been much lower to the chassis so the angles of your legs are much different. at least, it seems that way to me.
Re: (Lsnaple)
the transmission is not in the way in a FF layout, thats why there is alot more room. the linkage takes up an incredibly small space copared to the trans in a FR car.Lsnaple wrote:even in a FF, that place is still taken up with the linkage and transmission **** ( not exactly sure how to put all of this, ive only owned one FF and 3 FR) . ive also found that while driving a FF i seem to be sitting at a higher center of gravity, as opposed to all FR that ive driven or riden in ive been much lower to the chassis so the angles of your legs are much different. at least, it seems that way to me.
Re: (Kamin)
the pedal position in my 95 celica gt is better for heel toe than in my 240.To help in the 240 i added a piece of 2 1/2" by 4" of diamond plate to the gas pedal offset to the left side. Works better then expensive pedal kits if your not worried about the "bling" factor
Re: (jamie)
whoa are those like the same shoes that that guy was wearing in the fast and the furious? Whered you find em?
im not trying to sound rude or anything, i just cant seem to explain what i mean. ill take a picture or something to kinda show what i mean...im just saying the same amount of space is taken up in my civic compared to the other 3 FR cars, 2 s13's and 1 FC, i had.
the reference of the s2000 was just to say it wasnt as hard as in my civic. i think now it mainly depends on what the car is specifically made for, like it should be much easier in a sports car than an econimical car.
sorry just couldnt explain what i wanted to.
the reference of the s2000 was just to say it wasnt as hard as in my civic. i think now it mainly depends on what the car is specifically made for, like it should be much easier in a sports car than an econimical car.
sorry just couldnt explain what i wanted to.
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InsanityInc
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Re: (naed240sx)
Uh.... they're converse all-stars. I think they've been making those since 1917.naed240sx wrote:whoa are those like the same shoes that that guy was wearing in the fast and the furious? Whered you find em?
Re: (InsanityInc)
kidding, kidding, god that would be horrible if I wasnt
Re: (naed240sx)
for the discearning enthusiest...... "Special Edition Allstars"... loose woven carbon fiber instead of canvas, flexible titanium footbed and michelin F1 rubber tread built to look just like the origionals so as not to attract attention
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accel junky
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OldmanPurdy
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Re: (accel junky)
I've been practicing on the way to my GF's house everyday. Theres this one turn that you come up on in 4th but need to downshift to 3rd, its a perfect turn to practice on and I can nail it perfectly everytime. I still practice when comming up to some stop signs but as someone mentioned before it can be tough to blip the throttle if you aren't pressing the brake enough. I actually had a close call yesterday, some oldguy in a sunfire braked hard for some kids walking on the side of the road (they wenen't crossing). So I instinctly braked hard with my toe and blipped the throttle with some of my heel (still can't twist it enough ) and continued on around him as if nothing happened. I was supprised becuase most of the time I heel-toe I know im going to do it and I am prepared for it, I just knew what to do and did it . Many thanks to all the people who helped with the info.
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Dattebayo
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Re: (EZcheese15)
I didnt know you were an animal trainer. We should all take lessons!EZcheese15 wrote:I think it has more to do with the fact that some people are slightly pigeon-footed, while others are slightly crow-footed. I am slightly crow-footed, so it is much easier for me to have my heel on the brake, toe on the accelerator. Somebody that was slightly pigeon-footed would find it easier the other way around.
Seriously, If you take off the lower panel down below the steering wheel and you put your seat back a little more, you can move a little easier and true heel-toe is not that hard. I think alot of us are just afraid to drive in the "chill" position. Most cars are made for people of a certain "legs-to-chest" ratio, and that decides where your knees are. I find that the proper set up of your seat really allows you to drive the best way you can.
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EZcheese15
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Re: (2BN_S13)
Well, on the street, I drive with my seat all the way back. So I can't put it back any further.2BN_S13 wrote: I didnt know you were an animal trainer. We should all take lessons!
Seriously, If you take off the lower panel down below the steering wheel and you put your seat back a little more, you can move a little easier and true heel-toe is not that hard. I think alot of us are just afraid to drive in the "chill" position. Most cars are made for people of a certain "legs-to-chest" ratio, and that decides where your knees are. I find that the proper set up of your seat really allows you to drive the best way you can.
However, on the track, I slide up a good bit. It gives you better control of the steering wheel.
As far as the heel/toe thing, I've been practicing a bit more on the street because of this thread. I think I have found a comfortable position and angle. What works best for me is having my foot straight up and down, and using the left side for braking, and rolling it over to the right to blip the throttle. I've got it down now well enough where I can maintain constant brake pressure.
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Project S13
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Re: (EZcheese15)
I have found that the wheel in my s13 does get in the way at certain levels. When I drive aggresively/autocross I prefer to have the seat closer to the wheel and pedals as well as the wheel lower/more 'straight' to where it points at my elbows. Don't know how to explain it but to where it's easiest to control the pedals and shift/steer. When in this seating position I can't have the wheel quite as low as I'd prefer, but I guess I've gotten used to it. Chalk up another person who finds the steering wheel partially restrictive.
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