Qs for Boost Designs

[JPG0511]

I have done a lot of reading and I have desided that I am going to order a stage 1 kit from you because of price, and the fact that you post regular on this and other forums. You seem to stand behind what you sell. But I have a few questions for you. First is about the down pipe that comes with your kit. I know that it will not bolt up to my exhaust. So can you tell me what it would take to get it to fit? I just got a exhaust and high flow converter that I would like to keep even if I lose a few hp. Also I will have to tune the car myself with just a a/f ratio gauge and a boost gauge. From what I have read the Apex unit seem a little bit easier to tune but it doesn't control the timing like the Gready does. which would you recomend I use? This will be my first turbo install so I am trying to get all the info I can before I have my car in peaces and not have the right stuff to put it back togeather. Thanks for any help you can give also all the members here who post.

[WDRacing]

Going KAT is your first step in the right direction.

To answer your questions though: The downpipe can be cut and made to fit your current exhaust/cat setup at any muffler shop. The cost should not be more then $50.

The stage one kit doesn't come with and fuel management at all, so you will need a FMU at the very least. Or I would suggest buying BD's stg 2 conversion which includes new injectors and a fuel rail. Which you could control with a SAFCII or E-Manage. You won't need any timing correction until you start boosting over 8 psi. At which point you can retard the base timing or buy a MSD BTM or simply get a ECU Tune.

I'm sure the guys will chime in with more idea's. Your taking the right first step in doing the research though, congrats on that.

WD

[nissanfanatic]

I though timing correction started much sooner than that.

[WDRacing]

Nope, if your running with am AF mix in the 11's on boost then there is no need to start timing retard until 7-8 psi. Apexi used to make a cool timing retard box similar to the SAFC, but they no longer do. My friend had it on his Z.

[skatanic28]

Nope, if your running with am AF mix in the 11's on boost then there is no need to start timing retard until 7-8 psi. Apexi used to make a cool timing retard box similar to the SAFC, but they no longer do. My friend had it on his Z.

wouldnt that put you right around 25-28* total timing at WOT and boosting? i know the richness will slow down the burn a bit, but that still seems pretty agressive. you more than likely have a ton more experience with this kind of stuff....so would you considerl this safe?

[WDRacing]

I wouldn't run anymore boost then 8 psi without any type of timing retard. You'll also have to use the highest octane available. If you want to be on the safe side of things though, simply retard your base timing 2 degree's and you'll never have any problems.

I have a MSD Knock meter I use, I also use a wide band O2 meter. So I'll know if I ever get a bad tank of gas, or the temp outside is hot enough to give me problems.

So I suppose to be on the safe side, you may as well retard your base timing to be on the safe side. I'm just one of those guys who likes to live on the dangerous side of things.

WD

[nissanfanatic]

I was always under the influence that it was .5* for each psi of boost.

[NateDogg]

Sober up dude it's .5-.875*/psi after 8psi and is dependant on octane, charge temp, fuel ratio, mixture quality, etc..

[JPG0511]

Thanks for the help! I was also wanting to know if the fmic pipeing would fit between the radiator and the battery or do I have to move the battery? I am at work in Mexico for the next few weeks so I cant just look under my hood.

[ILikeMy240sx]

So if you are running less than 8 lbs its ok to leave the stock base timing as it is? I always thought that you retard it 5~6 degress regardless of boost level when you boost.

[WDRacing]

Jesus, 5-6 degree's is way to much. I'd retard a max of two just for safety with 91octane gas.

[nissanfanatic]

I agree with WD here. I am at 17* base right now for saftey.

[boostdesigns.com]

WD is correct i generally use base timing at 9 psi with a 12-1 FMU i never had any trouble with it to date but yes outside temp and fuel and even intercooler efficency can affect detonation at even low levels of boost. generally .5 of retard over 8 PSI will surfice with a BTM pulling to much timing can drop your HP alot. m new favorite setup is the enthalpy tuned ECU i think at this point if you can afford AEM then that is the best for the ka24de-t if not you really cant beat his tune for the money it is truly plug and play and i am 100% convinced of the power he is capable of making with his programs. plus i got mine back in 2 days!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[ILikeMy240sx]

I am seriously considering Enthalpy ECU as my option because the biggest part that I was worried about was tuning but it seems Enthalpy got rid of that problem for me....

With that enthalpy how much base timing do you have to adjust? or do you even have to adjust at all?

[boostdesigns.com]

you leave everything stock!! like i said plug and play.. like that Enthalpy tune

[IvanAtSPRacing]

PJ, I am not trying to be an A55 but a 12:1 FMU would be running aprox 150 psi fuel pressure at 9 psi of boost.

A Walboro 255L HP (high pressure) fuel pump will be flowing ZERO GPH at over 130 psi.



How the heck does your car run with no fuel?

Please tell us that this was a typo and that your not running a 12:1 FMU

[ILikeMy240sx]

Im pretty sure hes running a 12:1 because thats what the stage I used to include and according to PJ he ran stage I setup at approx 8 psi I believe....

[IvanAtSPRacing]

It would be impossible for a Walboro 255 L pump to provide ANY fuel flow at 130 psi or more. Basically, you could cap the end of the fuel pump off with a pressure gauge and the max pressure you will see is 130 psi. Either the FMU isnt a 12:1 or the FMU is not functioning like its supposed to.

Even at 7 psi boost with a 12:1 FMU the pressure should be 127 and you can plainly see by the chart that there wont be enough fuel flow to make any HP and your motor will MELT DOWN.

Is anybody running the BD stage 1 kit that has a fuel pressure gauge in their car? Can you verify the fuel pressure under boost.

[ILikeMy240sx]

According to this thread over here...http://www.nicoclub.com/zerothread?id=96020&page=3

He installed the stage1 kit with 12:1 FMU and had a bit of trouble with fuel pressure. I think he let the car idle and manually put pressure on the FMU and even at 10psi he only got 55psi fuel pressure.

He believes its his fuel pump at fault.

I honestly dont know what to think anymore....

[IvanAtSPRacing]

There are so many things that you have to watch out for with an FMU car.

First you have to look at how well the fuel pump will supply fuel at higher pressures as we discussed previously in this thread.

Then you have to see how the injectors will react to these pressures. The more fuel pressure on the pintle, the harder it is to open. At some point, the coil will not be able to lift the pintle any more or in some cases, the pintle can be held open and not be able to close.

You have to also look at how your fuel lines and clamps will handle the pressure. If you partially blow a hose off in tank, you will not know till your motor is melted (unless of course you have a fuel pressure gauge in the car)

Amp draw is another concerne. The higher the pressure the higher the Amps. This can blow fuses and can also cause wires to melt.

[Jeff240sx]

There are so many things that you have to watch out for with an FMU car.

First you have to look at how well the fuel pump will supply fuel at higher pressures as we discussed previously in this thread.

Then you have to see how the injectors will react to these pressures. The more fuel pressure on the pintle, the harder it is to open. At some point, the coil will not be able to lift the pintle any more or in some cases, the pintle can be held open and not be able to close.

You have to also look at how your fuel lines and clamps will handle the pressure. If you partially blow a hose off in tank, you will not know till your motor is melted (unless of course you have a fuel pressure gauge in the car)

Amp draw is another concerne. The higher the pressure the higher the Amps. This can blow fuses and can also cause wires to melt.

Don't forget the loss of lifespan to the fuel pump itself, working against the pressures necessary. FMU is a bad way to go, and 12:1 is improbable. Even 8:1 creates 110psi pressure at that boost level (8psi). The way to go is bigger injectors with a piggy back system. Call Boost Designs and ask to NOT pay for the FMU or any other unproven items that are the lifeline of a turbo kit. Like a generic wastegate. You should save ~$100, and use that towards a tried and true Tial wastegate and S-AFC with larger injectors. If you do it right the first time, it'll cost more up front, but you won't have to pay alot more total down the road. And have additional downtime during the upgrades, and labor.-Jeff

[ILikeMy240sx]

BD now got rid of FMU in their kits. They do give you the option to buy it separately if youd like...

[JPG0511]

Thanks for the info because I was thinking about going with the FMU or the SAFC2. The FMU would be easier for me(first turbo install) but I think the extra time and money will be well spent on the SAFC2. One question with the walbro and the SAFC2 can I tune the stock injectors for low boost (8psi) safely? And will the stock fuel presure regulater be ok? Plus this would let me upgrade later to more boost with larger injectors. Agian thanks for any info it is very helpful for me.

[boostdesigns.com]

after robert had his dilema with his setup i pulled my older vortech unit out of storage and apparently it had a 10-1 disk in it. i was under the impression it had a 12-1 when i purchased it for my mustang supercharger kit. i had always had good luck using the FMU setups. the original kit i designed the prototype around used a FMU and it worked flawlessly for over a year with no problems at 8 PSI. seeing as how we were upgrading the turbo on almost all kits to the T3/T4 and most people already had an SAFC or wanted to use the 370CC injectors we decided to change our stage one around accordingly. again this kit may not be for everyone so if you feel this kit does not meet your expectations then please feel free to explore other options. i am offering products i have personal experience with and run on my own personal vehicles.

[WDRacing]

Still the best kit for the money on the market...reguardless.

[nissanfanatic]

Still the best kit for the money on the market...reguardless.

+1

[boostdesigns.com]

You are always going to find improvements you can do to your kit i am already changing 2 things on mine as it is, i am upgrading the intercooler to a more efficent model and i am repositioning the BOV flange and now sending to the customer attached. Its easy to see fault in what other people do to there cars kits are the same way ever catch yourself saying this is a nice car but if it was mine i would............................. same thing with products!! i am offering a great system at a great price but i still learn something new everyday. i also make modificationd to my design as i go alone to make it a better system ..

[ILikeMy240sx]

That sounds really nice..

Would that change the price of the kits?

[IvanAtSPRacing]

Thats awesome news PJ. I am glad to see that your getting away from the FMU setup. Thats a bandaid system at best. Keep up the great work.

[boostdesigns.com]

Thats awesome news PJ. I am glad to see that your getting away from the FMU setup. Thats a bandaid system at best. Keep up the great work.

dont get me wrong Ivan i still like them its just that almost everyone that orders the kits are ordering the t3/t4 upgrade and most of them want to omit the FMU becouse they either already have a SAFC or injectors or some type of tuning device. i simply decided to restructure the kit to give them more of what they wanted with things they did not want. i personally like the enthalpy tunes now i have them on 3 cars and they seem to perform great. i still want a AEM on mine BADLYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY! might haft to fly you down here to tune me....... Its warm!!