Q45Tech, read this. Help Me

[PoorManQ45]

I have a 92 Q45.

I am currently in need of doing an under-plenum hose replacement.

I was wondering, is there any other option for do this repair, then having to buy the kit for several hundred dollars.

What is in the hoses that I will be replacing?

How much pressure/vacuum will the hoses have to sustain.

Are there any chemicals that flow through the hoses that will eat through rubber?

What is the average temperature that they will have to survive?

Would there be a problem if I used SS braided hoses? What are the standard hoses made of?

[Q45tech]

We never use anything but oem form fitted replacements because as an independent we warranty our work for 12 months! Never considered anything else because once you pull the plenum and look you will see the difficulty.

On any job where the labor cost more than the sum of oem parts, think twice about non oem parts. $300 in parts and $420 in labor.

[pito11213]

$420 is what you guys charge in labor for plenum removal and hose changes.

[PoorManQ45]

On any job where the labor cost more than the sum of oem parts, think twice about non oem parts. $300 in parts and $420 in labor.

What I don't understand though is, why do the parts cost $300 What is in the kit that is worth $300? Are there just a bunch of pre-bent hoses? A they made of something special?

I'm just having trouble with the idea of puting out $300 for some rubber hoses that should cost <$25.

[Q45tech]

Ultra high pressure fuel hose is expensive [not the NAPA crap]and 20 something other hoses. IAC prebents with y feeds and lots of other 90 degree bends.

Don't faint if you change the heater hoses. [$100+] extraI always recommend have knock sensors and a new harness on hand as they are almost always failed or about to fail.

It your car do as you wish! Just don't whine when you see what we described in advance.

I've change all hose twice already by 200,000 miles [10 years]and it's almost time to do it again at 268,000 miles.

Good time to clean the rats and dead animals out of the under plenum...........not as uncommon as you would think.

[PoorManQ45]

How much pressure is being contained in the fuel line that I should replace?

Everybody keeps mentioning these hoses that split into a Y form. Why do you guys think that it's so hard to do this? I can go to the hardware store and get one of them for ~$0.50.

By the way, I started the removal process last night.

Went to Advanced Auto Parts this morning. I got different sized fuel and vacuum hoses. I will get coolant hoses later.

Also, Advanced Auto Parts has Sea Foam on sale for $3.00. Is that a good price?

[PoorManQ45]

If you have already replaced the hoses two times, don't you think it would be nice to have a longer lasting solution?

[AZhitman]

What would your "longer lasting solution" be?

Stainless braided? I thought you were trying to SAVE money - those aren't cheap. And guess what's inside of them? Yep - rubber.

The hoses you paid $18 for are poor quality, and it will show within a year.

Would you put $50 tires on your 4200-lb. Q?

Wait - Please don't answer that.

[PoorManQ45]

yes, yes I would

[PoorManQ45]

You will see what my solution is. I will take pics and post them later

[PoorManQ45]

What do I get if my way works?

[AZhitman]

yes, yes I would

Then stay the hell away from my neighborhood. If you're ever in an accident due to poor braking distance, a blowout, or poor lateral adhesion, be a man and pay the settlement.

[AZhitman]

What do I get if my way works?

A Q45 that has garden hoses under the plenum and a stiff back.

[PoorManQ45]

Then stay the hell away from my neighborhood. If you're ever in an accident due to poor braking distance, a blowout, or poor lateral adhesion, be a man and pay the settlement.

I would get some nice burner tires. I'd smoke your a** outt .

[PoorManQ45]

A Q45 that has garden hoses under the plenum and a stiff back.

Actually, I thinking about rerouting some of the hoses. So that if I, or anyone else had to take the Plenum off, it would be alot easier.

[AZhitman]

Better yet, just replace the whole plenum with some rubber hoses - They're just tubes, you know.

[pito11213]

Damn you guys are just viscious

[PalmerWMD]

Yeah man lets give the man some props!

I for one wish you success with your plenum mission ( as I ak sure everyone else here does too).

Fred..

[Q45tech]

We probably do a set of plenum hoses once per week or at least have a 90-96 Q plenum off for knock sensors once per week between two shops.

The only thing we trust to warrranty is oem hoses because we can look the customer in the eye and say they will last at least 4 years maybe 5 maybe 6.......

Just got in the habit of world class preventative maintenance and spending 15 cents per mile since the car was paid for in 1990.

The three things I skimped on in 15 years always came back to bite me; Brake rotors, brake pads, and tires...........forgot light bulbs.

[PoorManQ45]

Better yet, just replace the whole plenum with some rubber hoses - They're just tubes, you know.

What's the plnum weigh? 15lbs. Nice, 15lbs of aluminum can get me about $20. That's enough to replace it with a custom made one .

[PoorManQ45]

Thanks Fred.

Actually, if you guys can stand it, I would prefer that you wouldn't try to keep people in order on the threads that I start. I know that somethings can get out of hand, but it doesn't really bother me. I like to know what people have to say. I kind of like to argue . I have many radical ideas, and I know that many people are not going to agree with me. That's ok. I don't really mind. For those few people who disagree with me, but still have the kindness to support me, thank you.

[AZhitman]

We probably do a set of plenum hoses once per week or at least have a 90-96 Q plenum off for knock sensors once per week between two shops.

The only thing we trust to warrranty is oem hoses because we can look the customer in the eye and say they will last at least 4 years maybe 5 maybe 6.......

Just got in the habit of world class preventative maintenance and spending 15 cents per mile since the car was paid for in 1990.

The three things I skimped on in 15 years always came back to bite me; Brake rotors, brake pads, and tires...........forgot light bulbs.

Read it, read it, and read it again.

Expert testimonial from someone who knows a Q inside and out.

[PoorManQ45]

The only thing we trust to warrranty is oem hoses because we can look the customer in the eye and say they will last at least 4 years maybe 5 maybe 6.......

If I were to create a kit to do the under plenum job, and sell it for $50, with a 5 year warranty. Would you use it?

[PoorManQ45]

We probably do a set of plenum hoses once per week or at least have a 90-96 Q plenum off for knock sensors once per week between two shops.

The three things I skimped on in 15 years always came back to bite me; Brake rotors, brake pads, and tires...........forgot light bulbs.

That's saying a bunch for the Q. That's saying that they were designed to fail. I know, they're ~14 years old.

Um... how do you go wrong with discs and pads? Very interesting. I paid ~$7 per disc about 5 years ago. They work very well. They're custom too. . Brake pads are pretty hard to mess up with. I bought a set of ceramic compound pads all the way around for ~$75. They have a lifetime warranty on them. I've replaced them ~5 times in 5 years. They don't fade either.

So, can you tell me how you went wrong with discs and pads?

[DAEDALUS]

Thanks Fred.

Actually, if you guys can stand it, I would prefer that you wouldn't try to keep people in order on the threads that I start. I know that somethings can get out of hand, but it doesn't really bother me. I like to know what people have to say. I kind of like to argue . I have many radical ideas, and I know that many people are not going to agree with me. That's ok. I don't really mind. For those few people who disagree with me, but still have the kindness to support me, thank you.

I don't mind at all that you want to try something new. Only 2 outcomes possible that I can see: 1) You succeed and we will all learn valuable knowledge that we can apply in the future while printing out your "NICO GENIUS" certificate; or 2) You fail and I get some entertainment in the meantime while saying "told you so."

What I do have a problem with is seeing basically the same darn question posted multiple times in 4 separate threads on 2 different forums. Ask a question, get an answer and, if someone else disagrees with that answer, they will probably speak up.

[PoorManQ45]

What I do have a problem with is seeing basically the same darn question posted multiple times in 4 separate threads on 2 different forums. Ask a question, get an answer and, if someone else disagrees with that answer, they will probably speak up.

It would seem that I get different answers. I am changing the subjects of my posts, also

[PoorManQ45]

here I'll change the subject of this thread.

Has anybody ever taken the cams from a Q45 to a machine shop to get them modified? I was looking over the duration and lift specs that Q45tech gave. And it would seem that there is very lift, and the duration is pretty short. If you were to modify a cam, wouldn't that allow it to still have VVT?

[DAEDALUS]

Sure, the VVT is independent of the cam lobe shape. Is the normal process of modifying a cam to weld material to it? Not sure how else to increase lift and duration, except to have a new one made. That'll cost a lot more than plenum hoses!

[Q45tech]

4 valve per cylinder engines need a lot less duration than American V8 because of the massive valve size [2-1.5" intakes =1.767 sq inches each or 3.534 square inches in total whereas a single 2.02" racing valve for a 350 Chevy = 3.2 square inches].

The US V8 needs the biggest valve and much higher lift to even get close the the stock Q valve cam system.

The 1990 Q engine produces more torque per cubic inch [with proper fuel/ignition JWT ecu] than the 2005 Corvette engine much much more than the Chrysler 300c so called Hemi...........274 ci is a small V8.

The interferrence of the valve and piston [already have flycuts in piston] means no more lift can be used without new pistons. And 0.490 with a 1.5" diameter valve is already ultra high lift and is perfection for valve curtain area vs valve seat 5 angle cuts.

Cams won't help much because the runners and plenum is tuned to 4,000, 4600, 5600, and 6,000 rpm. Figure out a way to shorten the runners by 2-3" and increase their opening diameter [area] by 8-10% [and maintain the taper ratio] and you might retune the engine to a 6800 rpm HP peak and yield aroud 350-360 HP unfortunately you would lose so much torque at 55 mph cruise that you would have to bump the diff gear up by 25%..........to let the heavy Q cruise with AC on.

You sure are a long way from saving a few bucks with garden hose plenums to spending $10,000 modifying an engine.

Important to take your medicine everyday as Lithium can do that to you. " NO HIGHS, NO LOWS", skip a pill and cams come to mind - seen it often on the boards.

[hal90000]

A sense of humor.

Is that allowed here?