Q45 Won't start after injectors and plugs replaced...Smell of gas everywhere

[QuickSilver]

Hi Guys,

I got the smell of gas everywhere after changing the injectors and plugs of my 92 Q45. The car doesn't start and you can smell gas in the engine bay and exhaust.

The injectors are from a Japanese take out engine with approx. 50k miles and where cleaned and tested by DuetchWerks.

Any suggestions and idea will be greatly appreciated.

[PopPop]

Did you re-leave fuel pressure before starting this job! First don't keep trying to start car! The plugs may be fouled and try to find the source of gas leak. Did you remove any of the fuel by-pass lines or forget to tighten a fuel line clamp?

[Q451990]

Your biggest concern here is hydrolocking. If you have a pinched lower o-ring the fuel will quickly flood that cylinder. An upper o-ring will cause a leak around the top of the rails.

If there was a lot fuel in the cylinder during your start attempts, you may have bent a rod.

I would pull the plugs and then try turning the engine over with the starter to see if you can throw some of the fuel out of the cylinder holes. Also, looking at the plugs may give you an indication of which cylinder(s) has the problem.

Heath

[QuickSilver]

If there was a lot fuel in the cylinder during your start attempts, you may have bent a rod.

Thanks guys...

You may have enlighted me to some potentially bad news.... a bent rod? It did sound very funny the second time of attempting starts..

The car is in my auto shop class and be checking on your suggestions Thursday night.

PopPop, what do you mean by "re-leave fuel pressure?" Do you release the fuel pressure by pulling the gas pump fuse?

[QuickSilver]

If there was a lot fuel in the cylinder during your start attempts, you may have bent a rod.

Thanks guys...

You may have enlighted me to some potentially bad news.... a bent rod? It did sound very funny the second time of attempting starts..

The car is in my auto shop class and be checking on your suggestions Thursday night.

PopPop, what do you mean by "re-leave fuel pressure?" Do you release the fuel pressure by pulling the gas pump fuse?

[Q451990]

PopPop, what do you mean by "re-leave fuel pressure?" Do you release the fuel pressure by pulling the gas pump fuse?

That's what he means. Pull the fuel pump fuse, then turn engine over a few times... pressure will be released.

It's possible that it didn't sound right cranking later because of a lack of compression. That would also cause your no-start condition. Once you get the injector fix, you want to try to start it as if the engine is flooded. Make sure the battery is fully charged, floor it and don't let off until the car starts. No pumping... no trying it either way... just floor it and hold the key until it fires up or the battery dies.

Always remember to lubricate the o-rings when replacing the injectors... vasoline, dielectric grease, even KY jelly have all been recommended. If you go with the later option I would suggest taking a fresh tube to your shop class... taking a half-used one might bring on a lot of extra mouth.

Good luck!

Heath

[JedCoop]

I get the smell of gas whenever I try starting my car and the battery doesn't have enough oomph to turn it more than a 1/2 turn. An hour later the engine bay smeels of gas. I don't have this problem when the battery starts things normally. I am now much more careful to restart the car more frequently.

The point being it seems you can get a lot of fuel smell in the engine even though the things are in OK shape.

[Q45denver]

Sounds like a pinched o-riing. I was under the impression that DuetchWerks leak tests the rail with the injectors installed. Apparently they only leak test the injectors individually.

[QuickSilver]

Yeah Health and Q45denver, I'm afraid you guys maybe right and it could be a pinched O ring. If that's the case, that means I've got to start all over again... It's taken me dozens of man hours and months just to get at this point. Needless to say I'm not to enthused or motivated to start over.

What's the best way to confirm that it is a pinch O-ring? So a leaking O-ring would keep the car from starting or idling when it did start for awhile?

What does the residue gas coming out of the exhaust tell you guys?

I rather not use Health's suggestion about removing the plugs to see if gas leaks from the holes because of another mistake I did.

As much as I hate to admit it to you guys, I can't remove my sparks without replacing all of my spark plug boots ($120 for eight boots). That's because I used too much silicon on the boots when I changed my plugs and now I have to rip out the stuck boots to get at the spark plugs.

On Tuesday night the instructor at auto shop class says we should test the fuel pressure. Hopefully this will tell me if there is a leak somewhere do a pinched O-ring or something else.

Health: Thanks for about the KY jelly warning, as I am already catching enough mouth from the guys about how long I've been working on this Q injector project. I did read your warning about anold tube and got plenty of laughs.

[DominickJ30]

As much as I hate to admit it to you guys, I can't remove my sparks without replacing all of my spark plug boots ($120 for eight boots). That's because I used too much silicon on the boots when I changed my plugs and now I have to rip out the stuck boots to get at the spark plugs. :

Why did you put silicone on the spark plugs? Should have used some dielectric grease.

[Q45denver]

I could priority mail a set of good boots to you for $15. A leaky or missing o-ring would cause the problems described. Don't risk bendng a rod!!!

[QuickSilver]

Thanks W for the offer on the boots. I may have to take you up on the offer a little later. The cost of new boots is only part of the promblem. The boots now have to be dug out of there piece by piece and they are a major pain. I was hoping not to have to replace them for another 50k miles when the plugs needed replacing again.

The silicone was put on the plug boots as what I believed was OEM intented. There was some red high temperature silicon on the boots when I removed them. Also there was one spark plug that was totally rusted from some type of water leaking to the spark plug cyclinder. That one I wanted to keep moisture from getting in there again. The others I put extra silicone to prevent electrical leaks (sparks jumping or shorting) evidence by some white marks and streaking found on some of the old boots.

Wer.. have ever notice these white marks on the boots? A mechanic who pointed them out to me said that these can cause severe inefficienies in electrical system.

[QuickSilver]

Thanks W for the offer on the boots. I may have to take you up on the offer a little later. The cost of new boots is only part of the promblem. The boots now have to be dug out of there piece by piece and they are a major pain. I was hoping not to have to replace them for another 50k miles when the plugs needed replacing again.

The silicone was put on the plug boots as what I believed was OEM intented. There was some red high temperature silicon on the boots when I removed them. Also there was one spark plug that was totally rusted from some type of water leaking to the spark plug cyclinder. That one I wanted to keep moisture from getting in there again. The others I put extra silicone to prevent electrical leaks (sparks jumping or shorting) evidence by some white marks and streaking found on some of the old boots.

Wer.. have ever notice these white marks on the boots? A mechanic who pointed them out to me said that these can cause severe inefficienies in electrical system.

[Q45denver]

Wonder where the water is coming from, maybe causing the white marks? I've heard of carbon (black) tracking but not white tracking.

[maxnix]

That's what he means. Pull the fuel pump fuse, then turn engine over a few times... pressure will be released.

And pop the gas cap!

What is with the silicone? Sloppy with RTV on valve cover job, maybe; but silicone is a no no. Doesn't anyone there have an FSM, TSB or at least All-Data?

[Q451990]

Yeah.... the silicone you saw came from a rocker cover reseal. It's very common, but it's not "supposed" to be there. If you sealed your plug boots into the holes - that's an interesting issue. Like you said - digging it out piece by piece... The boots, even new, are relatively inexpensive. Last time I bought them they were $8.43 each from Joe.

Given your current situation, you need to pull the injectors off of the runners (in the rail) and then pressurize the system. You'll probably see fuel squirting out around one or more of the pintiles sticking through the bottom of the rail. Also possibly around the top of the rail.... if it's coming from the bottom it's the lower o-ring... if it's coming from around the top cover, it's the upper o-ring. I suspect at least one or more lower o-ring failures since the car is flooding.

Good luck!

Heath