Q45 vs. J30 vs. LS400 vs. Mark VIII

[Jesda]

Well, today was one of the raniest days of the season, but it was also my day off so I went car shopping. My 92 Q is due for $2000 in service (chain guides and such) and I was considering letting it go for $3000 and picking up something else.

I looked at a 1994 J30, 1990 Lexus LS400, and a 1994 Lincoln Mark 8. What I found was quite interesting and reaffirming.

I drove the Q around all day to keep it fresh in my mind as a direct comparison.

Here's a review of each one.

1994 Infiniti J30:-$2500, owner may even go lower.-183k-Two owners (the guy bought it at 29k and has owned it since)-New Nissan transmission-Timing belt age unknown.-Average condition.-New pads, rotors.-Lots of other misc. recent service, dealer scheduled service at 30, 60, 90, 120 done on time, cost in excess of $1000 most instances.-The owner doesnt know if that included the timing belt -- records are not specifically indicative.Rear windows not functioning properly.Sunroof motor intermittent.-Lots of strange squeaks under the hood and an exhaust leak. I got the VIN number, which I'll be running through Plaza Infiniti tomorrow afternoon.



How it drove:Braking, handling, and acceleration were very good. The suspension and steering were tight and felt like new.Power was no comparison to the Q, the J felt slightly underpowered and overweight, but passing power was commendable. Braking and handling are the J's virtues, along with a distinctive look and very inviting interior. The new Goodyear tires he chose were particularly good in the rain, and seldom did the J slip or swerve under heavy cornering and acceleration.Nice stereo -- looks like the same head unit from the Maxima and Pathfinder. It sounds superb. Clean highs, deep lows, little distortion.There was no telescoping steering, but it was VERY easy to find an ideal driving position. I could imagine driving the J30 for 24 hours straight without discomfort.

How it looks:Seats are in good condition. The leather is clean but there is a small 1" tear in the driver's seatback.The dash and instruments are nicely arranged, with a distinctively Jag-like center stack. Also has a center storage bin with cupholders.The rear seat is small, but not uncomfortably small. The shape makes them more comfortable than the Q's.Body and paint are excellent.

Overall: Extremely refined, lots of fun to drive, but no match for the Q. If I was in the market for a V6 sedan, this would easily be my top choice.

1990 Lexus LS400:-Asking $3500-190k-Timing belt last done 90,000 miles ago (due).-Average condition.-No other records available, trade-in from Lexus of St Louis.-Did not include air suspension or traction control features



How it drives:Around town, it felt sluggish and heavy.I took it over some railroad crossings and found some particularly awful sections of road, and it handled them well -- perhaps not as well as a Cadillac or Buick but well enough to make it comfortable. There wasn't much wallow or float over bumps and humps, and I felt cocooned from the outside world.On the highway, the LS400 felt planted, well-controlled, and very powerful. There was no lack of passing power.Brakes were strong, but not as strong as the Q.The seats were hard and poorly shaped. They looked identical to my old Benz, but didnt play the part at all. Still to this day, the best seats I've been in are in my former 300E.The Q could whoop it's butt from a standing start, and on the highway. The Nakamichi sound system was very clear, but was prone to harmonic distortion at high volumes.

How it looks:Looks great. Bright silver paint. Looks like someone took a 92 Camry and plugged in an air pump -- and it turned out surprisingly nice. From certain angles, it makes me think of the MB 300E I used to drive, even moreso it makes me think of the last-generation S-class.Inside, it looked and felt a little downscale. The interior was modeled after Mercedes-Benz, but ended up feeling more like an Acura Legend (not bad, not great). The instruments were very bright and had a 3D effect that made them very easy to read. I definitely prefer them over the Q.The auto-tilt feature when you insert the key (like the Q) was great for getting in and out easily. But there was no power telescope function. The seat controls were also placed on the side of the seat, which felt a little downscale. Materials were sturdy and firm, giving a reassuring feeling, but lacked refinement in how they felt. The same goes for switchgear.Inside, I felt like I was sitting in one of my old 1988 Mazda 929s, however those didnt cost me over $1500 (one was free). They were also much more energetic around town.

Overall: The LS400 was designed to be what Brian might call "the perfect Buick" -- and it is. Its perfect, so perfect that it bored the hell out of me. I'm not close enough to retirement for an LS400/430.

1994 Lincoln Mark VIII:-Asking $3400.-A little over 100k.-New alternator-New tires.-New battery-New belts.-transmission flush done, with a pan drop, magnet clean, and filter change.-Two-owner car (his mother was the last owner).



How it drives:Holy CRAP! The 4.6 V8 took me by surprise. Not only does it have tons of top and low end torque, it sounds fantastic. (Go here for a video clip http://q.spilky.com/mark8). Yes, the Mark VIII could take on the Q.Unfortunately, its not very friendly over rough pavement, the worst of the bunch in that regard. But handling was sharp and precise thanks to air suspension. When you maintain 55, the car lowers itself an inch. When you get off the highway, you can see it raising itself again.Steering felt slightly numb compared to the Q and J30, but wasn't an issue that detracted from the driving experience.It was nice having a digital compass in the center LCD. Around here with our maniacal mess of random roads, it would come in handy and keep me out of questionable areas of town. It also showed distance-to-empty, range, fuel economy, and other goodies that us Infiniti owners didnt get until the 2002 Q45.The climate controls were stellar. The buttons werent as easy to locate and use, but response to temperature settings was quick.A dozen or so people on the Mark VIII forums report exceeding 250k on original transmissions and engines without expensive repairs.On the interstate, it was nice and quiet. The rear seats were surprisingly roomy. And in the latest issue of Car and Driver, they praise the new Mercedes CLK coupe's auto-forward front seats that make rear entry easier. The Mark VIII had that feature 11 years ago.Ford/JBL's sound system was the best of the bunch, hands down. Tremendous lows, bright highs, and a comfortable midrange. Would be nice to have an actual volume knob though.For the life of me, I could not find an ideal driving position thanks to the lack of a telescoping steering wheel. That bugged the hell out of me. I suppose the Mark VIII was designed for large white Americans. My stubby arms and legs didnt quite fit in.

How it looks:Wow, presence! Classic American design; timeless and elegant. The Mark VIII is a head-turner, and you know what it is the moment you see it. The diamond white pearl paint has a stunning satin finish that makes it "glow" under night time lights.Inside, the materials feel like any other Ford (on the cheap side but very sturdy), and controls arranged and shaped in a way that very much caters to the driver. Logical orientation and good design, although not entirely upscale in execution.

Overall:It might be the best looking of the bunch; it was certainly the fastest. However, refinement was lacking in a few areas (interior materials, handling rough pavement).

Final Rankings (first is best) (including my Q45):Handling: Q45, J30, Mark VIII, LS400Refinement: LS400, Q45, J30, Mark VIIIAcceleration: Mark VIII, Q45, LS400, J30Braking: Q45, J30, Mark VIII, LS400Ride: LS400, Q45, J30, Mark VIIIStyle: Mark VIII, Q45, J30/LS400 (tied)Audio: Mark VIII, J30/LS400 (tied), Q45Steering: Q45, J30/LS400 (tied), Mark VIIIQuietest: Q45/LS400 (tied), J30, Mark VIIIInterior: Q45/J30 (tied), LS400/Mark VIII (tied, LS400 had better materials, Mark VIII was better looking).Comfort: J30/Q45 (tied, J30 had best rear seats, Q45 had best driver seats), Mark VIII, LS400Fuel Efficiency: Mark VIII, J30, LS400, Q45"Fun to Drive": Q45, Mark VIII, J30, LS400Value: Mark VIII, Q45, J30, LS400

I put together a numerical system to go with the rankings I posted. Here's the results of all the points each car got (higher is better):

Q45:43Mark8: 37J30: 34LS400: 30

Conclusion: I own one of the best cars on earth.



-Jesda

[1qckser]

Great write up, vey well done:)

[nuQ]

very nice write-up jesda!!! my cousin has the markVIII, and although a nice car,,,,would not trade my Q for it,,,,,,,,for anything! looked at the LS400 before i settled on the Q,,,,felt the same as you,,,,a camry on steroids!!!jeff

[exmarkviiiowner]

Well i had a 93 Mark VIII that i sold to buy the Q.Overall it was a great car but it had 230,000 miles and that started to worry me.As did the air suspension which can be pretty expesive to maintain.The gas mileage is much better than the Q.The motor has ALOT in common with the cobra motor that debuted in the mustang in 96.That car would fly but was limited to about 130 on top end.Also i thought that lowend torque sucked compared to my Q also.

[Mr1der]

yeah, the MKVIII has the earliest version of the Modular motor, 4.6 DOHC motor, the Cobra motor that debuted in '96 was signicantly better built though (like hand assembled using world class parts).

it is however one of the best sounding motors around. I think power wise it's comparable to the First gen Q's. and it's a sexy looking car too:D

[louiegz]

I think you should get a 94-95 Q and you wont have the chain guide problem. I never driven a 90-93, but my 95 drives fine.

[elwesso]

I agree with Lou... I drove a 90-93, and the one I drove felt VERY inferior to my 94... I dont know what it was, but I just didnt feel right, same with the G35... Something wasnt right...

[nuQ]

could be those heated seats wes. was it cold outside????? LOLjeff

[elwesso]

Haha.. no it wasnt that, just everything just didnt feel right... It could have been the car had undergone MAJOR surgery and wasnt quite right yet...

just didnt feel hte same as my Q, it felt as solid, but just not the same...

[rsiwicki]

stick with the Q....I did after doing the same thing you are doing as I was determined to get a new convertible sports car, but just did not want the huge $700+ car payment as I have not had a car payment in over 4 years.

I have been touring junkyards these past few days locating a new rearend for my 4.08 project and it was amazing how many Q's were in the salvage yards. I was not expecting to find that many...but I found more Q's in 15+ yards than I see on the road in an entire month.

I found a really sweet pearl 94 Q45 that was junked after a nasty side impact with only 56K on it. I got the rearend off of it and I am going back for some other parts. About 50% of my lights behind all the little controls are burned out (door switches, center consul, & head a/c unit). I guess I do too much night driving so I am going back on Saturday and being like all the other scavengers there and gobble things up. These junkyard scavengers are like sharks...as soon as they see that you are interested in a car they go over there to see what you are looking at and then go find another similar model and pull the same part....Go figure!!!

[Jesda]

I have one annoyance with the 94-96 Q45. They changed the typeface on the gauges to something that looks a lot less luxurious. Reminds me of the font on the credits at the end of pornos made in the 70s so it just feels dirty when I look at it. (Dont ask!)

I do however like how the location of the info screen and warning lights were swapped.

-Jesda

[1qckser]

Quote »Reminds me of the font on the credits at the end of pornos made in the 70s [/quote]

You actually read the credits:eek: , hahahahahahahahahaha, Im gonna find an old 70 p0rn and see what you are talkn about:D

[HeavyDuty]

I had a 93, in, er 93.

Also had a 98 LSC, kind of a shop car, 4.11's, Cobra headers, custom exhaust, Superchip, lowered by changing the air system sensor locations, intake, blah blah blah.

[QShip]

I like the Mark VIII. I read in C&D that Ford ran the cars up to 160 mph during testing. Plus as HD noted, there are toys available for the Mark.

Poppa likes toys.

[VimyJ]

If the Q and the J share the same front brakes and the J has vented rears and weighs about 500 lbs less than a Q, how could a Q out brake a J?

Nice report. Enjoyed reading it. What you say about J comfort is so true. A long ride in a J is actually refreshing. Wierd but true.

[hal90000]

I feel obligated to reply since I have owned a 1986 Mark VII for 10 years and now a 1996 Q45 for about 6 months. My intention was to sell the Mark after a few months but I have not been able to bring myself to sell it yet. I didn't even like the car when I bought it. I just thought it was a good deal. I bought it from my ex-boss who I knew took good care of his automobiles. I was the accountant and saw all the bills.

I think we all know that the Q is the superior vehicle, but I wouldn't rule out the Mark entirely. In my experience with the vehicle I have found it to be very reliable. The parts I have needed have been very cheap. It is fairly eash to work on. The air bags are a draw back, but you can easily replace the rear ones yourself (I've heard the fronts are harder but I haven't had to do them) and if it really bothers you there are conversion kits to add real springs instead. The car is deceptive in that it feels very heavy to drive but it does perform when you push it.

In all, it may be a good balance of performance and cost in the long run. I almost bought a Mark VIII when the Q came along and stole my heart. Now I have two cars I wouldn't sell. I am fortunate that at the moment I have the financial ability to maintain the Q45 in the manner it deserves. But, I would not hesitate to recommend the Mark as a less expensive alternative.

[Jesda]

If the Q and the J share the same front brakes and the J has vented rears and weighs about 500 lbs less than a Q, how could a Q out brake a J?

Nice report. Enjoyed reading it. What you say about J comfort is so true. A long ride in a J is actually refreshing. Wierd but true.

I think the Q somehow applies more "power" to the brakes. Its hard to explain. The comparison was between a J with new brakes, and my Q with new pads.

But in the end, the J did not have long stopping distances; they could have been shorter. But it seemed to require a bit more pedal effort to achieve it.

-Jesda

[Rex]

... I found a really sweet pearl 94 Q45 that was junked after a nasty side impact with only 56K on it. I got the rearend off of it and I am going back for some other parts. About 50% of my lights behind all the little controls are burned out (door switches, center consul, & head a/c unit). I guess I do too much night driving so I am going back on Saturday and being like all the other scavengers there and gobble things up...

rsiwicki - If you go back and can remember, I'd really like to get the shifter trim and ash tray, if you could grab those, I'd gladly reimburse you and throw in a stipend. I really only need the ash tray, but want to replace them as a pair so the wood grain matches .

Don't forget to check the trunk for the FSM.

[Mr1der]

I feel obligated to reply since I have owned a 1986 Mark VII for 10 years and now a 1996 Q45 for about 6 months. My intention was to sell the Mark after a few months but I have not been able to bring myself to sell it yet. I didn't even like the car when I bought it. I just thought it was a good deal. I bought it from my ex-boss who I knew took good care of his automobiles. I was the accountant and saw all the bills.

I think we all know that the Q is the superior vehicle, but I wouldn't rule out the Mark entirely. In my experience with the vehicle I have found it to be very reliable. The parts I have needed have been very cheap. It is fairly eash to work on. The air bags are a draw back, but you can easily replace the rear ones yourself (I've heard the fronts are harder but I haven't had to do them) and if it really bothers you there are conversion kits to add real springs instead. The car is deceptive in that it feels very heavy to drive but it does perform when you push it.

In all, it may be a good balance of performance and cost in the long run. I almost bought a Mark VIII when the Q came along and stole my heart. Now I have two cars I wouldn't sell. I am fortunate that at the moment I have the financial ability to maintain the Q45 in the manner it deserves. But, I would not hesitate to recommend the Mark as a less expensive alternative.

the MKVII is ugly and built more or less like a Mustang:D

but I understand your feelings on wanting to keep it, I don't think I could ever give up the T Bird, despite it being a pain in the *** to work on and not to mention in a current busted ghetto state.

it you like the Fox body lincoln, you should give the MN12 a shot, it'll really impress you. LX Tbirds and Cougars suck though:D

and yeah, that JBL audio system does indeed rock, I wish my sub worked though:( (I've got a cheap 10 in there courtesy the previous owner though, it really doesn't sound bad at all though)

even after 15 years, the speakers STILL sound great (now to get the left side to get power, I blam it on the busted head non factory head unit in which I can't read the display...)

[elwesso]

Quote »I have one annoyance with the 94-96 Q45. They changed the typeface on the gauges to something that looks a lot less luxurious. Reminds me of the font on the credits at the end of pornos made in the 70s so it just feels dirty when I look at it. (Dont ask!)[/quote]Rob.. if you can find a set of seats that are mint with heated option I'll pay a good premium for htem!I personally like the 94-96 guages better... I dont what it is but I just like them better...

[AlabamaDan]

Jesda,

Great write up. You're very detail oriented. I thought I'd throw my two cents in as someone who just recently switched from a J to a Q. I loved my J and find myself thinking of getting another one to keep the Q company, but there's no comparison.

I wouldn't have thunk the J and Q were that different until I put a 100 miles on my new Q today. The Q handles extremely well and power, oh my God what power. As far as the looks go on the inside and out, they're both nice cars just different. I may take my time and look around for a good J to put up for my son. (He's three now so it would be a classic by the time he's sixteen. Unless a piece of Detroit iron runs over it.)

I wonder what my wife would think if I came how with a J to add to my collection. I brought home a 83 GMC S15 a few months ago. She's ok with it now, but wasn't extremely happy with the idea at first. I mean I can't go to Home Depot in my Q can I?

[AlabamaDan]

Oh Jesda! One more thing. Where'd ya get the NICO sticker for the window?

[elwesso]

Unless your getting some daisies and lightbulbs!

[elwesso]

GO HERE: http://www.cafeshops.com/nissaninfiniti/

[VimyJ]

I think the Q somehow applies more "power" to the brakes. Its hard to explain. The comparison was between a J with new brakes, and my Q with new pads.

But in the end, the J did not have long stopping distances; they could have been shorter. But it seemed to require a bit more pedal effort to achieve it.

-Jesda

Does not compute. The J and Q have the same front brakes (different pad compounds). Therefore the J has larger brakes for its size than the Q. The J's rear rotors are superior though this would only come into play for repeated stops. The Q's rotors are notorious for warping while the J's are not. This would imply that the J's rotors are superior to the Q's (only in terms of relative size) as they are not as stressed by hard braking. Since they are not as stressed they would be more efficient. More efficient brakes mean better brakes. Better brakes mean shorter stopping distances which means the J has better braking ability than the heavier Q.

No doubt the Q has greater power assist than the J but stopping distance wouldn't be affected. Pedal pressure perhaps but not stopping power.

[Q45tech]

"I think the Q somehow applies more "power" to the brakes. Its hard to explain. The comparison was between a J with new brakes, and my Q with new pads"

While the front rotors and calipers are the same [on both models] the pad composition is different............the U91 [Q] pads are pretty aggressive for an oem pad.

Lots of it depends on the actual CAMBER [0.7static >3.5-4.5 degrees] on the tire in 3" dropped position of maximal braking and actual tire load vs reserve and tire compounds mostly.

As you see from "tirerack test" there can be 20 feet differences on just a 50 mph stop between best and average tires..........how many times the ABS lets off the pressure because the tire lost traction.

[Jesda]

In day-to-day driving, I definitely prefer added assistance -- its a luxury car. On the track of course, overall efficiency would be best. Brakes are so cheap and easy on labor compared to other parts.

I'm still thinking about that J30...

-Jesda

[LuvinMyQ]

Jesda, you are very detailed. I usually pick out a car first based on its looks. I did like the Lexus and was thinking about a 97 Acura TL/RL, but I picked the Q because it has a very original look to me that no other car has plus the options outweighed those of the Acura. I also chose the 93Q b/c it is plain and I think it looks better without a grille...but I do miss having fog lights...how can you not put fog lights on a car. That is pretty much my only disappointment with the exterior. Plus I can pretty much count the number of people here in orlando who drive the older Q on one hand. However I have not sampled the 93Q vs the 94Q. Didn't realize there would be much of a difference as far as the engine goes.

[Jesda]

Interesting point. I've never owned a car with fog lights so I've never understood what it was like to not have them.

Do they really make a difference in foggy conditions?

-Jesda

[elwesso]

I dont notice any different..... The only thing I can see them doing is maybe illuminating the lines **a hair** better..... I drive iwth them on becuase it looks cooler!!

Then again, in Indiana the roads are so crappy the lines dont glow much anymore...