Q45 VS Grand Marquis ---Engine VS Launch VS Ground Covered

[lino]

I have a question that I hope makes some kind of sense.

A friend of mine bought a 1995 Grand Marquis with 120,000miles yesterday and asked me to try the car out. The car had a bad miss at 50mph. The Ford dealer recommended to change the spark plugs first and then it said that it could be the coils as they are prone to failure. Anyway, we changed the plugs and the miss was gone - so far so good. I started to compare the car to my Q45 to see how it compares. What I noticed is that the you can feel the car's torque off the line, the car pulls hard, smooth and effortlessly from a traffic light, with a gentle touch of the pedal.

In comparison, I find that my Q45 "feels like" it pulls slower of the line, the engine feels like it wants to go go go, as it howls like crazy, yet the car doesn't seem to cover as much ground as it should and I have to push harder on the accelerator than the Grand Marquis. What's holding the car back? I wish I didn't have to step as hard on the accelerator as I do.

BTW I am not comparing the Grand Marquis to the Q45 - car for car. I'm only comparing my driving experience between my car and my friend's so please no dirty looks or choice words .

[Jesda]

The 93-04 Cadillac Seville SLS and Seville STS have the same characteristics. The torque curves are different for the same engine. In the SLS, you give it a light tap and you have more off the line power but sacrifice the top end. The STS has more top-end power.

As a result, the SLS is nicer around town while the STS is a screamer on the highway, especially when passing.

Its just a design thing. The MGM is intended to be an American highway cruiser, not an autobahn dominator.

[qship96]

I have read that american cars have a non linear throttle designed to make you feel the car is more powerful from idle with little pressure on gas pedal

[louiegz]

American pushrod V8 have more low end torque than the multi valve counterparts. Not only that, American cars are geared and tuned for low end torque. Americans love for they're cars to take off the line. I also like the low end torque, as I drive most often, in the city and I really don't get to let the Q's V8 to the upper revs, where the VH shines.

[Q45tech]

http://www.michigan.gov/docume...7.doch ... report.pdf

Important to actually use a stop watch and not be fooled by the grace of the Q even 1995 models

The Furds are just now [2006-2007] getting to 297 lb/ft at 4,000 rpm and still run out of breath at 5,000 [250 HP peak]

The Furd accels 50>80 in 7.8 seconds vs Q ~~6.5..............1990[ecu] 5.8HOWEVER both take 3.2 to get zero>30mph

0>80 = 14.43 for Furd [2006] and 12>10.8 for Q45 [95> 90ecu]

2.43 secs is pretty significant to 80 mph

It takes 1.09 miles for the 2006 Furd to reach 120mph while the 90Q only takes ~~1/2 mile to reach 120 [22.5 seconds at which time the Furd is just passing 96-97 mph]

AH Here it is the 1996 CV had 210 HP at 4250 and 270 lb/ft at 3250 rpm15.2 seconds to 80mph and 9.1 secs to 60 mph...................http://www.nlectc.org/pdffiles/96patrol.pdf

So the 95Q [7.5] should beat 95CV/Mercury [9.1] by ~1.5 seconds to 60 mph yet both would be neck and neck to 25-30 mph.

Whereas a 1995 automatic 5.7 Camaro would hit 30 mph in 2.5 seconds 0.7 seconds faster than either

[maxnix]

Nothing like some quantative data to calibrate the buttometer.

[FarFetched]

Well what if you take an Interceptor CV?As far as I know those have slightly modified ECU and different TQ with higher stall plus taller gears for a HOT PERSUIT I can work on 4.6 CV engines with my eyes closed. There is no comparison between VQ45 and FEURD (turd) 4.6 engines PERIOD. One thing 4.6 is good for is comsuming oil (5W20 water like oil my ars)!Our police CVs go 1 qt every 1000 miles even if we use 10W30 oil Cheers!

[Q45tech]

All those numbers are from Interceptor Tests.If you look at the Police test in detail you'll see up to 3 versions of 4.6 and 2 different diff gear 3.27 amd 3.55...........the 3.55 didn't do much because of the low HP peak rpm. Actually hurt above 80 because it force early shifts.

The Q's ability to normal shift at 6500 rpms vs Furds normal 5500 is the key as the gear ratios are nearly identical.

"Contrary to public perception, there are few outstanding differences between the police interceptor and standard civilian Crown Victorias. By and large, the police interceptor uses the same Ford modular V8 engine and transmission as the civilian models, with the most notable differences being oil and transmission fluid coolers to help the vehicles run for extended lengths of time without overheating. The police interceptor also comes without a speed governor, enabling the vehicle to reach higher top speeds than its civilian counterpart. Another difference is Ford's "severe duty" shock absorbers that offer a stiffer ride than the civilian Crown Victoria. Police Interceptors will have the characters "P71" as the model code in the VIN. Other features that are unique to the Police Interceptor are more aggressive programming, timing and shift points. Police Interceptors also have a heavy duty frame and body mounts, an aluminum drive shaft and usually a limited slip rear differential. All Police Interceptors also come with full stainless steel dual exhausts. Most civilian Crown Victorias come with a single exhaust pipe. Police Interceptors have stiffer springs and have a bit higher stance than civilian models plus come equipped with front and rear stabilizer bars.

[DrewQ45]

Get a 1993 TCU (search for part number) so your car takes off in 1st versus 2nd gear.

...Drew...

[elwesso]

Get a 1993 TCU (search for part number) so your car takes off in 1st versus 2nd gear.

...Drew...

yeah thats what i was thinking.... Its because the Q starts in 2nd.... Shift it into 1st and see what happens....... That is, if you have any tread left on your snow tires!!

Remember, 90% of the torque on the VH is available at 2000 RPM!

[Q45tech]

Now you know if you immediately and forcefully floor it from a stop it goes into 1st gear, 2nd gear start is only for partial throttle accelerations.Obviously manually selecting #1 works faster.

While 90% of the Q engine torque may be available at the flywheel getting it thru TC REQUIRES that the ground speed must catch up to the TC slip [2200/1333= 16.5 mph for 90-93 or 2200/1250= 18 mph] before exciting anything happens.

The Q TC must function at 6700 rpm vs 5500 for Furd...........angles and low rpm efficiency are different at launch due to wider dynamic speed range required.

The Q just functions in the 4000-6700 rpm range better you can see that when you study accelerations of both cars in that [4000-5500 range] in 2nd gear [50 mph -75/78 mph]..........same gears, same ~~published torque.

Overlaying RW dyno torque graphs shows this in detail.........getting it to tires is what counts not published engine specs..

http://www.hypertech.com/image...6.pdf

WOW 210 lb/ft of rear torque at peak [3000-4000] vs Q ~~230 lb/ft but by 5500 the Furd is down to 145 lb/ft and the Q is at 210 lb/ft.

[Q45tech]

1/4 Mile ET: 16.693 1/4 Mile MPH: 83.300 1/8 Mile ET: 10.972 1/8 Mile MPH: 65.680 0-60 Foot ET: 2.539 Temperature F: 95.0 Timeslip Scan: Car Make: Ford Car Model: Crown Victoria Car Type: P71 Police Interceptor Car Year: 1995 Driver: Skyler Shannon

http://www.dragtimes.com/Ford-....html

[lino]

5.8HOWEVER both take 3.2 to get zero>30mph

0>80 = 14.43 for Furd [2006] and 12>10.8 for Q45 [95> 90ecu]

2.43 secs is pretty significant to 80 mph

Lots of interesting and informative reading Q45tech...thank you.

Question #1: What is the performance difference between a 1990 ECU and a 1991 ECU and a 1995 ECU?

Question #2: Is there a performance difference if a NICO ECU is programmed on a 1990 ECU or 1991 ECU? Are any of the 1990-1995 interchangeable?

[Q451990]

"Contrary to public perception, there are few outstanding differences between the police interceptor and standard civilian Crown Victorias.

They forgot to mention the styrofoam rear axle bolt covers that are supposed to keep the car from exploding in a rear end collision... apparently only cops get rear-ended at high speeds.

Heath

[maxnix]

.. an aluminum drive shaft

That's interesting because if I recall (and I may not be correct) it was the aluminum driveshaft in the non-LSC MKVIII that limited it's top speed to 130 mph.
Modified by maxnix at 10:11 AM 11/30/2006

[Q451990]

Question #2: Is there a performance difference if a NICO ECU is programmed on a 1990 ECU or 1991 ECU? Are any of the 1990-1995 interchangeable?

My understanding is that the 90-93 Standard and Active ECUs are physically the same with some hardware differences with the ECUs for the TCS. The programming is the only difference...

I think there were some major changes in 1994 and again in 1996. Can't confirm the 1994 part though...

Heath

[AZhitman]

I've driven both (1995 Q45 and 2001 Interceptor).

The Interceptor was my state-issued ride for a little over a year.

I had an opportunity to run both cars heads-up against each other, and the Q handily spanked the Interceptor from 0-80, with a 2-3 car length lead. Incidentally, the Furd jumped off the line quicker, but that only lasted until the Q hit the top of 1st.

By the way, a lot of the rhetoric surrounding the Interceptor Crown Vics is wholly inaccurate. Not only are they heavier, but they ARE saddled with a speed limiter (albeit a tad higher than the standard model). Bottom line? It's NOT a fast car.

Gearing is the simple explanation for the original poster's question... The lower first gear is a common domestic "band-aid" to fool the "pedestrian car buyer" into thinking the car is more powerful than it really is.

I have an acquaintance who's CONVINCED his late 90's Grand Am GT is "fast" because it will scorch the front tires across an intersection. He's a moron, but I digress.

[lino]

The Interceptor was my state-issued ride for a little over a year.

As the driver or the back seat driver ?

[Q45tech]

GEARING isn't it, because the 4AT Furd transmission is ~~ = to the Q [90-93 transmission] the diff is 3.27 vs our 3.538 [3.54 is an interceptor option but no one takes it because of the fuel penalty] and it doesn't change things much and it hurts 100-120 mph accelerations getting into overdrive earlier.

All about an engine that requires a transmission shift at < 5500 rpm vs 6500+

The Q has 2.784 x 3.538=9.85:1 1st gearFurd Interceptor had 2.84 x 3,27= 9.2868:1 1st gear .....................6% less gearing than 90-93Q and roughly equal to the 94-95Q 1st gear totalFurd option 2.84 x 3.54 = 10.054 2% greater gearing than 90-93Q

[maxnix]

As the driver or the back seat driver ?

I assure you 95% of the time, Greg is the driver.

[elwesso]

As the driver or the back seat driver ?

well, there was this one time, back at band camp.....

[FarFetched]

After all Q45 any model is high-end lux car VS. CV mid-class big car!You drive a CV and you know you drive an American built car.You drive Q45 ...and you speechless.....Cheers!

[Q45tech]

Obviously a 32V8 Cobra engine with nitrous and supercharging can improve things over stock. 11.98 @ 115 mphhttp://www.mercurymarauder.net/forums/

[qship96]

the ford is a big,cheap,outdated entry level full size sedan....ads in balt paper show dealers offering them every day for 18k brand spanking new! about the price of a small civic or corolla{even though both those are better cars,yet small}

[AZhitman]

The Roush-prepped Vics we drove at Bondurant were a LOT more enjoyable.

It pains me to see law enforcement using such crappy vehicles.

[T45]

You should move to San Antonio TX, they drive Hemi Chargers.

[Skibane]

Nerp - They're driving Crown Vics here, too...

[FarFetched]

Obviously a 32V8 Cobra engine with nitrous and supercharging can improve things over stock. 11.98 @ 115 mphhttp://www.mercurymarauder.net/forums/

I remember there was a post of a guy who twin-turbocharged 4.1 or 4.5 engine for a river speed boat. Imagine if that could be done within a Q45 engine bay - monster powerplant. Definately beefing up drivetrain would be mendatory procedure!Cheers!