Q45 Oil Pan R&R advice

Post by **DAEDALUS** » Sat Sep 04, 2004 10:15 pm

I think member's rides is down while the admins sort through this new ZeroForum board. The good thing about this new software is that it allows some robust customization. The bad thing about this new software is that it requires some robust customization.

Post by **tangalora** » Mon Sep 06, 2004 9:47 pm

The Feedback section says the picture posting is fixed. If you see a photo below, it's fixed. If not ... like most things, it doesn' t prove anything

Post by **zgendron** » Wed Sep 08, 2004 5:34 am

Well, after serious consideration this weekend, I think we'll be sending the car off to our mechanic. He quoted us $500 for labor, and I think that'll be worth it. I sure can't afford to spend a day on this thing!

So what are you guys using for a replacement part? New or Used? How Much?

I should probably mention how this all happened. Great story actually.

So I went to my parents house to help him cut down some trees. He refused to rent a truck to carry out all the brush. Its only a 2 mile drive, and he just wanted to take a bunch of trips in the Q. Mom and I begged him to reconsider, but he refused.

So we take them down to the Yard Waste recycling area. On our way in we pass a big rock in the middle of the dirt road. We see it. No big deal. We empty the trunk and notice a bunch of spiders crawling around from the tree. We sweep most of them out and start our trip back.

Again, the rock is still there. Dad sees the rock up ahead. However, there is also a spider crawling up his leg. Normally this isn't a big deal either, except that it was about to go under his shorts, and continue making its way up!

Needless to say, he slightly panicked, began swatting the spider, I yelled about the rock, but it was too late.

We got the car home in time to catch the last 3 quarts of oil pouring.

Post by **maxnix** » Wed Sep 08, 2004 5:41 am

zgendron wrote:Again, the rock is still there. Dad sees the rock up ahead. However, there is also a spider crawling up his leg. Normally this isn't a big deal either, except that it was about to go under his shorts, and continue making its way up!

Needless to say, he slightly panicked, began swatting the spider, I yelled about the rock, but it was too late.

We got the car home in time to catch the last 3 quarts of oil pouring.

Not good! What year? Chain guides done? Better check compression at least after this little excursion!

Sorry, Dad, Mom says I can't let you have the keys after that last little fiasco.

What he deserves for hauling brush in a Q45.

Post by **tangalora** » Wed Sep 08, 2004 9:27 pm

I suspect a "used" oil pan would beabout half as much work to remove (so that's essentially a 4-hour job, or so); thereby making this not much of an option. Of course, if the engine is *already* out of the Q45 ... that might make a used oil pan more worthwhile...

However, the earlier part of this thread concluded that a new oil pan from Joe was only three hundred bucks and change (I still have my new oil pan collecting dust, waiting for me to heal enough to re-contemplate performing the all-day task).

Whether I go with a mechanic or I do it myself, new is the answer for me.a) PAN ASSY OIL (INF #11110-60U10)b) GASKET SILICONE LIQUID (INF #999MP-A7007P)c) 8 HOURS (or more)

Tangalora

Post by **dentone** » Thu Sep 30, 2004 9:50 am

What did you ever decide to do? I have the same problem on my Q.

I'm thinking of jb welding it. That is what the local infiniti mechanic told me to do.

Post by **tangalora** » Mon Oct 04, 2004 11:00 pm

dentone wrote:What did you ever decide to do? I have the same problem on my Q. I'm thinking of jb welding it. That is what the local infiniti mechanic told me to do.

Well, I'm actually embarassed to say where I am on this "project".I'm still a bit depressed about it, which has me paralyzed in inaction.I didn't want to say anything, but, I'm basically stuck.

That said, I'm exactly where I last left off (in a borrowed econobox).Maybe someone can get me past the stumbling block on the Q45 repair.

I basically need to figure out how to hold up the engine BEFORE I can do anything else. I don't mind buying tools. Tools are forever.They are better than diamonds as your best friend.

I just need to know exactly what tool to use to hold up the engine &where exactly to bolt it to the engine so I'm safe & sound underneath.

I gave up on the JB Weld only because if it leaked, I'd ruin my Q45, and then be stuck helpless in the middle of some desert somewhere.

So, I'm gonna try the 8-hour oil pan R&R (after I solve the hoist problem).

I know I have to hold up the engine front to remove the front crossmember.(The engine rear is apparently held up by the transmission which itself can be held up by a transmission jack or small floor jack).

A jackstand on the crankshaft pulley would be simple, but, it justmight bend the crankshaft (ouch).

So, I kinda' haft'a heft up the engine from the top somehow.I'm working outside so I don't have an overhead beam to hold onto.

A friend helped me build a wooden stand which is shaped like an overpass.One abutment goes on top of each front strut with the beam over the engine.We hooked a ratchet winch to a center eyebolt.The ratchet winds up the wire which we wrap around the engine.

But it's so rickety & loose around the engine, we decided NOT to use it.Even saving a Q45 isn't worth getting squished. Yuck. What a mess.I'd post a photo of our contraption but my photos never seem to show up anymore on NICO so it would be a waste of everyone's time to do so.

The question I have is, if I buy what the auto store calls a "cherry picker"(for about 175 bucks), do I just wrap the chain loosly around the engine? http://www.montac.com/mustang/tools.htm ... op...01361

Or, are there certain (as yet unidentified) bolts on the engine to connectto the shop hoist chain?

In this case, it might make sense to go Infiniti on the engine support.Does Joe sell the spider-arm engine-holder-thingey that Dennis mentioned long ago?

Post by **DAEDALUS** » Mon Oct 04, 2004 11:22 pm

There are 2 lift points on the engine. One is toward the passenger rear and the other is toward the driver's front. The tranny you can just leave alone as long as the engine doesn't end up moving much. The passenger's side already has a lift bracket attached. It's that really beefy bracket held on with (I think) 2 large bolts. The other lift point is a bracket that does not come with the engine, and which bolts to the side of the engine somewhere around the driver's exhaust manifold. There are pics in the FSM. Sadly, I actually have the bracket but I have not gotten under there enough to know exactly where it goes and how it bolts up. Joe was able to track it down for me and I recall it was surprisingly cheap. I'm pretty sure you wouldn't bend the crankshaft by resting it on a stand, but I still wouldn't recommend it. (Cylinder pressures can be 600psi or more, multiplied by piston area (> 10in^2)...approximate's the force applied to the piston on each power stroke.)I bought a support bar contraption for holding up the engine, but I'm not there yet due to a lot of other things going on. It looks like it could work well, but it's about the same price as a cherry picker, and I think either one will work. I dont' think wrapping chains loosely around the engine will work. At some point they'll have to get real tight and you don't want to damage anything, plus it sound like they would cover the oil pan!

Check General Chat...I think photopost is fixed and there's a thread in there about it.

Post by **tangalora** » Tue Oct 05, 2004 12:14 am

DAEDALUS wrote:I bought a support bar contraption for holding up the engine ...plus it sound like (chains) would cover the oil pan ...

Ooops. I hadn't thought about the part about the winch wire wrapping around the oil pan. Geez. It seems obvious enough now that you mention it. I'll need to bolt to the engine at the two mysterious points you noted. I'll take a look right now to see if I can find them.

Meanwhile, here is a shot of the support-bar contraption rigged up with wood.As I said, I'm NOT comfortable with this engine beam winch contraption preventing the heavy Q45 engine from breaking the wooden beam & killing me.Who would clean up the mess?

Post by **tangalora** » Tue Oct 05, 2004 12:28 am

OK. I just went outside and I think I found the passenger side rear engine lift bracket. See the photo below.

Is is the circled black steel plate (with a hole in the top) just in front of the yellow-handled transmission dip stick?

Post by **tangalora** » Tue Oct 05, 2004 1:05 am

DAEDALUS wrote:The other lift point is a bracket that does not come with the engine, and which bolts to the side of the engine somewhere around the driver's exhaust manifold. There are pics in the FSM.

I didn't see any diagram in the 1990 FSM of the engine being SUPPORTED from ABOVE by a cherry picker (engine hoist) or other mechanical contraption while the Q45 is on the ground.

I do see a diagram (SEM875C), on page EM-42 (see the photo below) showing two attach points for REMOVAL of the engine/transmission assembly from the UNDERSIDE of the Q45 (presumably when it's ten feet up on a lift).

Do these two attach points (clearly for removal of the engine & transmission from the underside of the car) correspond exactly to the suggested attachment points for the cherry picker (engine hoist) situated ABOVE the car (to support the engine for an oil pan R&R)?

Post by **tangalora** » Tue Oct 05, 2004 1:38 am

DAEDALUS wrote:I bought a support bar contraption for holding up the engine, but I'm not there yet due to a lot of other things going on. It looks like it could work well, but it's about the same price as a cherry picker, and I think either one will work.

A support bar across the struts holding the engine up has distinct advantages over the engine hoist (cherry picker).

With the cherry picker, the balance legs extend UNDER the Q45 such that it might be difficult to crawl to the oil pan from the sides of the car without those extended legs getting in the way! We might have to crawl to the oil pan from the REAR of the Q45. That would necessitate an ADDITIONAL set of jackstands holding the rear of the Q45 up in the air just so we could get our body close enough to the front crossmember to begin the oil pan removal & replacement procedure. (What do you think?)

Even when we do get close to the oil pan, the extended legs of the cherry picker might prevent the front crossmember from coming down. (I don't know if it will).

So, it seems that the support bar might be the way to go to hold the engine up (while the cherry picker seems appropriate for REMOVAL of the engine altogether).

Any ideas on that?

While you're at it, can anyone de-confusify me on the two things called "slingers" on page EM-40 of the 1990 Q45 FSM (diagram SEM872C).

These so-called "slingers" (see the annotated photo below) seem to be on the rear passenger and front drivers side of the engine ... BUT ... the shapes of what is drawn doesn't seem to correspond to the reality.

For one, the passenger side, engine rear "slinger" in the diagram doesn't seem to be the right shape; and the driver side, engine front slinger doesn't even seem to be there. I know it was posted you have to add it, but, if so, why doesn't the FSM make any mention (that I can locate) of the need to add this part.

Why do they show two "slingers" in the diagram if there is only one?Are these circled slingers (see the photo below) the same as the one "slinger" circled in the previous photo?

I'm soooooo confused about the engine attachment points and the tool to use to hold the engine up.

Post by **911/Q45** » Tue Oct 05, 2004 5:22 am

I would guess that the pictures in the FSM differ from the reality slightly because the FSM was cranked out before the parts themselves were finalized. You could probably have a welder fabricate your crossbar for less than you think, but perhaps it would be better to do it the way the FSM shows and lower the engine through the bottom. You can rent some pretty sophisticated hoists for not too much $ that will get the job done and keep you safe. I'll bet the attachment point for the driver's side slinger will become obvious once you remove all the dreck that covers that area. Wish I were closer to Sacramento so I could dig into this with you.

Post by **tangalora** » Tue Oct 05, 2004 12:06 pm

911/Q45 wrote:I'll bet the attachment point for the driver's side slinger will become obvious once you remove all the dreck that covers that area.

I think the part number for the missing driver side front engine slinger is: 10005-60U00

Post by **911/Q45** » Tue Oct 05, 2004 1:27 pm

That checks with my microfiche. I looked at my Q when my wife got home and there are two threaded bosses on the driver's side front of the head just below the cam cover where the slinger attaches. A ground strap is bolted to the rear one and the front is empty.

Post by **tangalora** » Tue Oct 05, 2004 5:58 pm

911/Q45 wrote:That checks with my microfiche. A ground strap is bolted to the rear one and the front is empty.

Your microfiche jives with the fax parts folk at Scottsdale Infiniti sent me (see attached photo).

The part number for the obvious passenger-side rear engine slinger is apparently 10006-60U00 while the problematic driver-side phantom front engine slinger is 10005-60U00. It's so cheap (less than ten bucks) that it isn't really a problem whether it exists or not.

The really confusing thing is nobody seems to give the same answer when asked about how to properly support the engine for an oil-pan or motor mount removal and replacement.

- Nico posts suggest the rear engine slinger (passenger side) is bolted to the engine while the front engine slinger needs to be purchased (less than ten dollars each at Scottsdale, plus shipping) and installed. OK so far.

- Neither the 1990 FSM nor the micrfiche at the local dealership or at Scottsdale Infiniti support that statement. Both diagrams show both engine slingers without any mention that one exists on the engine and the other needs to be purchased & attached separately. Huh? That's wierd.

- The local dealership says they have the tool to hold the engine up by the struts, but, they can't sell it. They also say they never use that (missing) driver-side front engine slinger.

- Contrary to that information, Scottsdale "technicians" tell the countermen that they never use a strut brace to remove the front engine crossmember; they just use very tall jack stands to hold up the engine from the bottom on the lift.

I'm inclined to order the ten-dollar drivers-side front engine slinger, if only because it's so cheap. The real problem will be where the heck I bolt it to the engine. It's really hard to tell from the diagrams I've seen so far.

Can someone who has done it show us how to properly support the engine for a motor mount or oil pan R&R procedure? If the answer entails purchasing a front engine slinger, then where exactly does that bracket mount?

Post by **tangalora** » Tue Oct 05, 2004 6:00 pm

What's a boss?

Post by **DAEDALUS** » Tue Oct 05, 2004 7:47 pm

A raised protrusion, or an inside-out hole if you will. Sounds like there are raised surfaces with threaded holes in them, which makes sense to push the slinger far enough out away from the head so it doesn't interfere with anything.

Post by **911/Q45** » Wed Oct 06, 2004 6:42 am

The engine didn't come with the front slinger for two reasons. #1-you were supposed to trot down to your dealer and have them pull your engine. #2-it couldn't stay on the engine because it would interfere with some of the accessory stuff. If you shine a flashlight down through all the hoses and cables, you can see where it mounts.

Post by **tangalora** » Thu Oct 07, 2004 6:23 am

911/Q45 wrote:The engine didn't come with the front slinger ... shine a flashlight through all the hoses and cables, you can see where it mounts.

OK. Now we're getting somewhere (I can't imagine anyone doing this job right without getting the answer to this question).

So, I'm gonna correct your statement jes' a bit to explain my particular easter-egg dilemma.YOU can see where it mounts. But, I must be looking in the wrong place or somephun'. Happens to me all the time (I never find the eggs until next Christmas).Geez. All I see are "stuff" (is stuff plural?). In fact, I see lotsa stuffs. Too much stuffs. And (I never thought I'd say this) not enough "bosses" standing out.

For example, in the photo below, I annotated where I think the "boss" for the front engine slinger might reside. Am I even close to the spot to mount the "front engine slinger" from Joe?

I'm circled where I'm looking at the base of the spider thing.

Post by **DAEDALUS** » Thu Oct 07, 2004 6:30 am

You need to be looking down deep, right about where the exhaust manifold bolts to the head. A small mirror on a long handle, and lots of light, might help.

Post by **tangalora** » Fri Oct 08, 2004 6:25 am

OK. Now I'm geting closer (by matching the diagrams previously posted with the photo with your suggestion that the front engine slinger is to be attached to the "boss" near one of the outlets of the "exhaust manifold".

Scottsdale Infiniti kindly shipped me the front engine slinger, but the front engine slinger order doesn't come with the bolt that is shown in FSM diagrams previously posted.

Hence, this point of confusion:

If there is an unused "boss" by the exhause manifold, then why would the diagrams show a bolt holding the front engine slinger onto the engine? If there were a bolt holding it on, that isn't part of the stock Q45, then why wouldn't the front engine slinger package come with that bolt? (It doesn't).

One natural assumption is that the bolt isn't needed (assuming we just use the unused boss), but, the boys at Scottsdale said I needed the bolt (so I ordered it just now).

But, I'm just guessing that I need it based on the inconsistencies above.Is everyone as confused as I am (or is it just me) with what exactly to order to attach the front engine slinger to the Q45 engine at the exhause manifold?

Post by **DAEDALUS** » Fri Oct 08, 2004 6:34 am

A boss is only a raised surface. The slinger mates to its surface and you just bolt it on. There should be threaded holes in th boss(es). You can get the bolts from Scottsdale if they stock them, or any hardware shop that sells high-grade metric bolts. You'll have guess on the thread pitch, though it's probably pretty standard for the fastener diameter.

Post by **911/Q45** » Fri Oct 08, 2004 9:36 am

There is already one bolt there holding a ground strap on. You can match it with another at a hardware store if you need two.

Post by **tangalora** » Fri Oct 08, 2004 9:58 pm

Nico friends wrote:You need to be looking down deep, right about where the exhaust manifold bolts to the head. A small mirror on a long handle ... might help ... There is already one bolt there holding a ground strap

Eureka! ... ("I have found it") ...

I'm not sure whether Archimedes in 200 BC really uttered that proclamation while running naked through the streets of Syracuse ... nonetheless, your jeweled suggestions almost seem worth a crown's weight in gold in helping me (& everyone with a leaking Q45 oil pan to replace) positively locate the mysterious hidden boss, bolt hole, and additional bolted ground wire of the missing front engine slinger.

Indeed, they are all there (sans the front engine slinger) near an engine block junction at about the level of and just aft of the top of the horizontal oil filter.

Without the mirror suggestion, I would never have found the attach point for the front engine slinger. The photo below should show the boss ridge, running alongside the engine block, the empty bolt hole toward the front of the engine, and the bolt attaching a wire to the block, They appear at a 90 degree angle to where they really reside on the engine block (due to the mirror effect). The missing front engine slinger is attached by these two bolts..

So, if you order a front-engine slinger from Joe, order the extra bolt too!

(NOTE: I hope you can see the photos 'cause I spend a lot of time creating them to help me and others out; I never can see photos in the threads anymore; I keep getting web error messages when trying to view photos despite everyone saying the web pages are fixed. So, I hope my photo effort is worth it for you.)

Post by **DAEDALUS** » Fri Oct 08, 2004 11:57 pm

Nice pic! The bosses are the round parts with the holes, the other material is called gussets or webbing I believe.

Make sure the bolt holding the ground strap is long enough! I am pretty sure the slinger is thicker than the ground lug. I would recommend having at least 4 full threads engaged when you torque the bolt up, if not more. Also, the bolt may not bottom out, it has to be torqued down tight with the bolt head compressing the slinger, and the slinger snug against the head. Bolts are good in tension, compression and shear, but not so good in bending. Test fit the bolt in the slinger, and count how many threads poke through the hole.

The small amount of time we spend helping you is returned many times over with your detailed write-ups. Thanks.

Post by **tangalora** » Sat Oct 09, 2004 7:26 am

DAEDALUS wrote:Make sure the bolt holding the ground strap is long enough!

Good point. I had not even thought of that either. (Geez, I'll be glad when this is done so others don't have to go through what I'm learning; they can just start where we leave off).

I can easily see the second ground-strap bolt head in the mirror photo above; but I didn't even think to check its length! (BTW, I'm glad you can actually see the posted photo 'cause I still can't; no matter what I try, lately I get a web error when I click on the photo link of "File attachments can only be linked from the message board server; Outside linking is not allowed.")

The good news is the next DIY'er (if they read this first) will know this information well ahead of time. Unfortunately (for me), I only ordered the ONE missing front engine slinger bolt from Dan at Scottsdale Infiniti (I no longer buy anything from the local dealership, not even boring bolts, if Joes' place can get them to me in time for the job). The 90 factory shop manual (FSM) shows only one bolt (nonetheless, one might possibly correctly construe that there could be two bolt locations shown based on a somewhat liberal interpretation of the FSM drawings). Then again, I'm finding it hard to trust the FSM in all things as it makes no distinction between the rear engine slinger (which is right there) and the front engine slinger (which is nowhere to be seen on a stock Q45).

Anyway, for the edification of the next poor soul who needs to hold up the 1990 Q45 engine by the engine slingers, the annotated photo above (if you can see it) shows the location (amongst all that stuffs') where we need to look (with a mirror) to find the front engine slinger attach point raised webbing & threaded bolt bosses.

Post by **elwesso** » Sat Oct 09, 2004 9:10 am

Great picture tangalora!!!

Have you started your job yet?? You are enlightening all of us, and I have learned a ton from this thread!

Post by **911/Q45** » Sat Oct 09, 2004 9:47 am

A minor detail, the bosses are actually on the drivers side head, not the block. Once you remove the intake and throttle body dreck, all will be crystal clear.

Post by **DAEDALUS** » Sat Oct 09, 2004 11:21 am

Not sure if it will help you, but this is the support contraption I bought:

http://www.otctools.com/newcat...1.jpg

It looks like I will have to use it a little dfferently than it was intended in order to pick up on the lift points in the right places, but it should still work I think. It came with steel cables, but I think linked chain is a better choice.

Q45 Oil Pan R&R advice

Re: (DAEDALUS)

Re: (tangalora)

Can you say rehabbed JDM VH45DE take-out?

Re: (tangalora)

Re: (dentone)

Re: (DAEDALUS)

Re: (tangalora)

Re: (DAEDALUS)

Re: (DAEDALUS)

Re: (911/Q45)

Re: (911/Q45)

Re: (911/Q45)

Re: (911/Q45)

Re: (DAEDALUS)

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