Q45 camber fix

[DrewQ45]

It’s been mentioned that one can adjust the camber by “shimming” the upper link bracket. I believe this involves removing the bracket and installing metal spacers behind it then putting the bracket back on…just wanted to be sure. I'll be installing adjustable tension rods soon and thought I might as well install the shims before taking the car in for alignment.

Once I remove this, will I be putting equal spacers on all four studs? What diameter washers/holes?



..Drew....

[DAEDALUS]

The washers have to all be the same thickness. Not sure on the size, but just by looks I'd guess they were 6mm studs. You may want to tack-bond a couple to the back of the bracket in line with the cross-bolt.

[maxnix]

Good question. I had always assumed it was just the top two, but now I think it makes more sense to to two drilled straps or plates for spacing. Picture helps think about what is accomplished and how best to do it.

[elwesso]

Hopefully siju sees this...

[DAEDALUS]

There are 2 pairs of parallel planes. Unless you're expecting the shims to be angled, you must use 4 shims of the same thickness. Then 2 extra shims to prevent bending in the bracket.

[sijoko]

You need to put washers in front of all 4 bolts on each bracket. So, that is a minimum of 4 washers on each side.

I used 7/16 flat washers. Make sure the surface behind the bracket is flat and free of debris. Also, put some lube on the bolts before you torque them up.

How many degrees camber do you have now? Don't shim the bracket unless you have a way to measure the camber before and after. Otherwise, it will be a guessing game. I have a camber gauge with a digital readout that I use.

There is also a limit to the camber variation between right and left sides. It is in the service manual.

-sijoko

[DAEDALUS]

I used 7/16 flat washers.

I was thinking 6mm sounded way too small. 7/16, so the studs are 10mm?

[elwesso]

Where do you get said devices??

[DAEDALUS]

Washers?



Thicknesses are fairly standard, but you're just shooting to land within a range, and they're thin (.032"?). You could probably stack them if necessary.

[elwesso]

I was referring to the camber measuring thing!

[DAEDALUS]

http://www.thetoolwarehouse.net/shop/TA-61800.html

[DrewQ45]

Thanks for all the input….

"The washers have to all be the same thickness. Not sure on the size, but just by looks I'd guess they were 6mm studs. You may want to tack-bond a couple to the back of the bracket in line with the cross-bolt."

Daed.... what do you mean tack bond them to the back of the bracket? I can simply slide them onto the stud once the bracket is off. Also, I doubt if two extra washers would be required on one plane...that might cause the whole bracket to lean. Is it that you think the mounting surface may have an angle aside from the bend shown? Maybe I'm misunderstanding you….

Maxnix,

Pictures are worth a thousand words… I kept hearing about this but wasn’t sure about how to place the washers until now. … You’re right…two solid plates would probably be a more stable setup. I’m thinking of cutting sections out of an old lawn-mower blade and drilling the necessary holes. Of course that might to too thick…the whole thing depends on the deviation of my camber. The studs are not that long so not much can be added behind bracket. I think Q45tech once came up with a formula for the amount of washers/spacer thickness necessary based on degrees out of spec

Sijoko,

Not sure of camber readings at this time. I had an alignment done at a very capable shop here in Atl over a year ago so I may need to refer to the printout (once I find it)…of course things can go south in that space of time so a current reading probably be beneficial.

….Drew…

[DAEDALUS]

I was suggesting that you use 6 washers total. 4 on the studs, and 2 more under the bracket close to crossbolt. Probablly not required (bracket looks pretty beefy), but it would gaurantee the bracket doesn't flex.

[sijoko]

You can stack the washers if you have to, but make sure that there is plenty of thread on the bolts exposed for the nut .

The camber gauge can be picked up at a racer's supply shop. I have the one made by Longacre Racing. The cheaper ones with bubble levels in them should also work fine.

In reference to the bracket, the 4 bolts that mount it to the body are probably the weakest link. The bracket itself is very strong. I would say that it is probably at least 12 gauge stamped and welded steel.

Flexing shouldn't be an issue with street driving as long as you use some wide washers to shim the bracket. The ones that I used are about 1.25 in. wide.

-sijoko
Modified by sijoko at 1:36 AM 5/9/2005

[DrewQ45]

"I was suggesting that you use 6 washers total. 4 on the studs, and 2 more under the bracket close to crossbolt. Probablly not required (bracket looks pretty beefy), but it would gaurantee the bracket doesn't flex."...

Gotcha!... thx for explaining.

Man, this is going to be more work that I thought... I'm getting tired of pulling the wheels off now. I'll see if I can pick up one of those camber gauges sometime soon. How do those things work anyway...do you sit it vertically on the rim? If so, I might be able to grab my carpenter's level and do the same.

...Drew...
Modified by DrewQ45 at 10:47 AM 5/9/2005

[DAEDALUS]

The alignment bubble levels have a curved bubble with graduated marks, which a carpenter's level doesn't have. It doesn't measure absolute camber, but you can use it to measure relative camber...zero it out before you do any work, and then use it to get the alignment back after you do the work. Sijoko's model probably measures absolute camber.

[DrewQ45]

I was actually kidding about the carpenter level

Sounds good... I'll try to pick up one of these things soon.

[DAEDALUS]

Not a bad idea. You could use a carpenter's level and shims to zero it out, then you could measure absolute camber, which would be nice. Need a flat surface on the wheel that's true.

[DrewQ45]

Maybe use a nice laser level for better accuracy....hmmm?