Q45 1990 Cylinder 1 and 8 not firing

[Q451990owner]

The car was sitting for 8 years, fuel pump corroded, was replaced. The car was driven 8 mikes, parked again for 2 years. Pump corroded again and replaced.
This time the engine would not turn on. I was sure the injectors were clogged.i called AAA and had it towed to shop, when the car was lowered from the flat bed, it started right away....
But it was vibrating, they hooked it up to a computer and it said injector 1 and 8 not working at 0 RPM. And the rest were about 75-80 RPM

The mechanic says he needed to take off the plamium and wanted $400 for that then replace the 2 injectors.

I don't trust this guy , I bought injector cleaner fluid, and drove the car for 40 miles, but still 2 injectors are not working.

Could it be the spark plugs and not the injectors? Could it be that a rat chewed a cable? I had rat droppings in the engine.

Can I clean the injectors? Can the injectors 1 and 8 be pulled out without removing the plamium?

A mechanic , different one, who deals with infinities all the time, says that the injector will most likely work all of a sudden if I drive the car for a couple of days.

Any suggestions? Opinions?

Thanks

[OwnerCS]

The car was sitting for 8 years, fuel pump corroded, was replaced. The car was driven 8 mikes, parked again for 2 years. Pump corroded again and replaced.
This time the engine would not turn on. I was sure the injectors were clogged.i called AAA and had it towed to shop, when the car was lowered from the flat bed, it started right away....
But it was vibrating, they hooked it up to a computer and it said injector 1 and 8 not working at 0 RPM. And the rest were about 75-80 RPM

The mechanic says he needed to take off the plamium and wanted $400 for that then replace the 2 injectors.

I don't trust this guy , I bought injector cleaner fluid, and drove the car for 40 miles, but still 2 injectors are not working.

Could it be the spark plugs and not the injectors? Could it be that a rat chewed a cable? I had rat droppings in the engine.

Can I clean the injectors? Can the injectors 1 and 8 be pulled out without removing the plamium?

A mechanic , different one, who deals with infinities all the time, says that the injector will most likely work all of a sudden if I drive the car for a couple of days.

Any suggestions? Opinions?

Thanks

Varmint's usually like to chew up the knock sensor wiring harness. At 115,000 miles mine had been chewed down to one small strand of wire. I replaced the knock sensor harness when I pulled to plenum to replace fuel injectors.

Soon after I purchased my Q, I installed spark plugs and found the valve cover RTV (liquid gasket sealer) was leaking around spark plugs 1 and 2. The uncorrected oil leak would eventually cause firing to fail on cylinders 1 and 2. About a week later the car developed a miss that turned out to be two bad injectors (IIRC) on cylinders 2 and 7. So my V8 had become a V6.

The Phase I Q45 (1990 - 1993) model used plastic timing chain guides. If the plastic guides have not been replaced, you should start making plans for replacement. If the timing chain guides break, the engine will most likely be destroyed. Also, Phase I Q45 used a pintile style injector. The Phase II Q45 used a rotary injector that seems to be more reliable. I would consider replacing all injectors with new rotary style injectors and the Phase II injector rail and wiring harness.

The Crossroads

In July of 2010 I had just acquired a mint condition Q45 with 115,000 miles. I knew the car had been in a climate controlled garage since it was new. Also, the car had no door dings or visible signs of upholstery wear. I knew from the start the car would need timing chain guides and all new hoses since it was approaching 20 years old. The injector failure was a complete surprise.

The good news is I had budgeted $3,000 for first year parts and repairs and another $1,500 for second year parts and repairs knowing I would refresh critical technical components during that process. After learning about the Q45 on this forum I decided to do my own labor as the money saved could be used to do a first class tech refresh and replace all under plenum hoses, varmint chewed wiring, injectors, timing chain guides, alternator, radiator, struts, and other wear items. Trust me, I spent at least $4,500 on parts for the first year with me supplying the labor. Also, I wanted to make the Q's restoration a family project for my two teenage sons so they could learn about fixing up a car with fuel injection and computerized ignition like we have with the Q. Unfortunately, the transmission failed during the second year of service, so I was committed to keeping the car rolling as I had spent a lot of time and money during the tech refresh.

Remember we have cars that will be officially classified (at least in my state) for licensing purposes as an "antique automobile" within the next couple of years. Antique car license plates (a one time license fee) and special tax discounts are available for automobiles over 25 years old. So if you are willing to spend the money to give the Q an under plenum technology refresh, then drive it to get your money's worth out of the repair investment as automobile expense like depreciation, it may be worth it to you to keep and drive it as an antique automobile. Otherwise, I would consider selling it to someone who will make the technology refresh investment and keep the car for several years while registering it as an antique automobile.

[Q451990owner]

My car was manufactured in 1989 as a first production vehicle.
It has only 86,000 miles.

I am not planning to drive it a lot as I am going to leave the country for a year, and will use it when I visit the U S every 3 months for about a week....
Apart from the 2 cylinders not running, the car is in perfect upholstery condition.

I will. Need to buy new tires, I have something wrong with the moon roof, it leaked during a car wash. My fuel tank door latch will not close.

So it looks like injectors are a common thing on these cars.

At this point, I want to not have to open the planum. I saw some refurbished BJ injectors on amazon for $50 each. Would that work? Are all injectors the same? Can I mix them by replacing just 2? And is injector 1 and 8 replaceable without opening the planum ?

[goody90q45]

......At this point, I want to not have to open the plenum. I saw some refurbished BJ injectors on amazon for $50 each. Would that work? Are all injectors the same? Can I mix them by replacing just 2? And is injector 1 and 8 replaceable without opening the planum ?

Start by ohm testing all 8 injectors at the harness connector located in the bundle of connectors on the passenger side of the plenum. The only tool you'll need is a voltmeter.



Here's the complete explanation from Q45.org:

http://q45.org/ohminjectors.html

If you're lucky and only #1 and #8 FI are ohming out of spec they (and #2 FI) can be replaced without removing the intake plenum. I'd also recommend ohm testing these three FI directly on the injector pins. Remove the connector and place probes from the voltmeter on the FI pins to get the readings. If they ohm test good you've probably got plugged injectors from sitting for 10 years so try a bottle of Redline fuel injector cleaner in a 1/2 tank of gas. There's other solutions to your issues but get back to us (soon) with the results of the ohm testing.

The $50 ebay injectors will work fine as replacements. No need to replace all 8.

Also....where are you located? There may be a knowledgeable member close who can help.

[Q451990owner]

Thanks for the quick reply.
I'm in Los Angeles (woodland Hills)
I took it to a mechanic who has the Nissan computer, he hooked it up, and it showed an open injector error, and tested injector 1 and 8 as getting 0 RPM
He then put a statoscope like a doctor, and listened to the injectors and told me they need to be replaced, I told him that they look accessible, he said I have to take off the planum .... He charged me $75 for this diagnostic. I felt that he is milking me. I took the car and left.

I drove the car for 3 hours already and put in a fall a tank Lucas injector cleaner, and nothing so far. I will test what you told me as soon as I get a volt meter.

[goody90q45]

It sounds like he did the testing using Nissan Consult so his diagnosis is probably correct. Voltmeters are only $10-$20 so it's not going to hurt to buy one and check it yourself. If they are ohming out of range no amount of FI cleaner is going to bring them back to life but it will help clean up the other 5 FI that are working properly.

FI 1, 2 and 8 can be replaced without removing the intake very easily in under an hour. I've done all 3 myself. If your Q has been a SoCal car all its life I'm guessing that the under plenum hoses are in pretty good shape and won't need replacing, so no need to remove the intake. I've owned 6 CA Q45's and none of them have had brittle hoses that Q owners experience in the rest of the country. Ohm test the FI first, buy replacements and new orings, and replace them yourself or bring a copy of this thread to your mechanic to assure him that they can be replaced without removing the intake.

[Q451990owner]

Is the faulty injectors generating the check engine light to be on ?

[goody90q45]

Yes, but there could be other problems causing the CEL to activate. I'd guess codes 51 (injectors) and 34 (knock sensors) are what you're seeing. What codes came up when the mechanic ran the consult? Did he clear them and they came back?

[Q451990owner]

He didn't tell me. I hope/assume it's the injectors.

[db_autotek]

I just replaced two injectors (1 & 2) and it did clear my Check Engine Light. Also, Goody is right that cylinders 1, 2, and 8 can be done without removing the plenum. 8 is a tight fit, but doable. The mechanic shouldn't charge you much to replace those, since it can be done in 30 minutes. Yes I said 30 minutes for both of them. Tell your mechanic I said so too. I did 1 & 2 in about 20 minutes lol. To get new injectors, I went the ebay route, and mine work great. I chose NEW injectors, at about $74 a piece I think, instead of used or mystery remanufactured ones.

[Q451990owner]

I have a friend who is a navy retired mechanic, and he is the one who replaced my fuel pump. He doesn't charge me much to change fuel injectors.
Which new injectors did you get? Factory ones?

[db_autotek]

I got these here: http://www.ebay.com/itm/400445290550 and oops it was about $76 for both of them not one. BUT THIS ISN'T THE ONE you need for the 1990. This one is for the 94-96, as I have learned and mentioned above, this is the Phase 2 model. It need a different fuel rail than you have. You'll have to search ebay's parts finder to see what fits your phase 1 model. I do know they look physically different. I'll see if I can find an example...

[db_autotek]

The ones you need will look something like this: Nissan OEM 1990 injectors for $40: http://www.ebay.com/itm/Factory-OEM-Inf ... 0f&vxp=mtr
or these for $38, the brand I got, the're listed as "new" but then it says remanufactured in the title, so now actually I don't know which they are, but they work great http://www.ebay.com/itm/GB-Remanufactur ... 51&vxp=mtr

[Q451990owner]

The link you sent me is the same one I found. It is made GB Remanufacturing... You bought remanufactured. The model I need is 842-18118 and it goes for $49 each on amazon.
I do have a causation about the O ring kit. http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0049Z ... PDKIKX0DER
Is that one kit per injector or is it for 8 injectors. The question is do I need to buy 2 kits for 2 injectors?

[db_autotek]

Mine came with the o-rings already installed. Like you I thought I needed the o-ring kit, so I ordered 2 kits, but then I just had to return them lol. Each injector uses 2 o rings, one big one and one small one. The kits I got had 4 different o rings... It would've used 2 from each kit. Who knows what the other 2 were for, I think the o-ring kit is semi-generic so they put in o rings that would fit a wide range of possible injector situations. If you get the GB Reman ones, they have new o-rings. You can't re-use o-rings once they've been used, since they actually expand a little bit. I think you'll be good to go if you just get 2 of the GB injectors.

Replacing them is fairly simple: each injector has a metal seating cap with two philips screws each. Once the electrical connector and the metal cap is removed, the injector is technically free to come out, but it can be a pain to physically lift it out. This is because the existing o-rings have formed so well to the inner surfaces. Since I was trashing the old injectors anyways, I used the pry side of a hammer to pry them out. This took a few tries, and destroyed the plastic of the old injectors in the process lol. Once out, put the new injector in and press firmly to get it started. You won't be able to push it all the way down and seated. Put the metal seating cap on, and put the screws in, carefully tighten the screws going back and forth between the two screws tightening just a little more each time. This is so it seats properly and not lopsided. Once it's all the way tight, plug the connector back on and thats it.

[Q451990owner]

I need to know how to identify injectors # 1 and # 8 how would I know which ones they are? I understand that #2 is also accessible, but I dont need to replace #2. is there a picture or diagram showing which one is 1 and 8 ?

Thank you

[goody90q45]

#8 is passenger side rear, closest to the firewall. #2 is passenger side front and #1 is driver side front. Remove the plastic trim piece in front of the plenum and you'll get a good look at #1 and #2 FI and be able to ohm them.

[Q451990owner]

#8 iS hard to remove . #1 came out after rocking it a bit. I am stuck on #8 now ....

[goody90q45]

Spray a lubricant around the top oring sealing surface, rotate 360 degrees 2 or 3 times to get the lubricant flowing, wrap a thin rope noose around the plastic top and apply a steady upward pull. It should pop out after about 5-10 seconds.

[Q451990owner]

Yeeee I got it working. I bought locally the injectors , GB remanufacturing , paid $42.15 each surrendering the old ones. Otherwise they charge $15 more each. So I am out $84 + tax. I was lucky I did not need to take the planum out. The car runs clean and smooth and looks like a 7 year old car with no cosmetic problems inside , leather like new all plastic as like new , dash like new. The car has 86,000 miles one owner car that I bought 11 years ago from a Rabbi who bough my Audi .

Really thank you guys for all the support. You saved me a fortune.

Now I need to fix my gas tank door latch that will not close and my rear right window that will not work properly , replace the faulty stereo with some nice 2 DIN stereo with navigation and Bluetooth and replace all 4 tires and I'm done.

[Q451990owner]

My car has passed the California smog test!!!!!! Yeeee

[Q451990]

That's awesome! I'm not really a fan of remanufactured injectors, but for that price, and for the low mileage you plan on putting on the car it's probably a good choice for your situation. Have you posted pictures of this beauty yet? Also, I'm curious to know how early this one was produced... would you mind posting the last 5 or 6 digits of your VIN? I had a very early production 90 before my current Q, so I'm curious to know if this one is even earlier than my "Q1"

Heath