Q-splat comment

[Q-urked]

I have a 91 Q45 with about 110k on it. It's been my wife's car for the most part. Overall it's been a fairly reliable though expensive machine for the 12 years we've owned it. The inordinate complexity has always been an ongoing source of concern to me and is presently bearing its bitter fruit.

Cutting to the chase, the transmission failed recently via a broken ring on a planetary. This happened in the midst of an unresolved "engine" light that stopped the engine at idle. Unfortunately, I didn't find this fine forum until a couple of days ago but having done so, I am now concerned for the present condition of the timing chain guides. Had I known of the short life chain guides prior to the decision to fix the transmission, I'm fairly confident this machine would on its way to China right now, in a load of scrap.

The Q45 is undoubtedly the most impressive piece of machinery I've ever owned but unfortunately semi-reliable longevity seems to be inversely related to performance, even in the hands of blue haired retired ladies.

Plastic wear parts in the guts of a high performance engine just doesn't make sense. Nonetheless, it is what it is and another decision is in order. Dump in another kilo-buck or two or run the thing till the inevitable happens. It isn't a matter of life or death but it is unsettling to discover time bombs in clockworks.

eor (end of rant)

[elwesso]

I would keep it... Sounds like you have a well maintained car, even though it has caused some problems...... Get the guides done, and you should be good.. The worst is by and large over, and you should just be able to do the normal maintenance stuff (plenum, suspension) and youll have a great Q...

Many car mfgs use plastic guides.. Jaguar and I think BMW have, and other nissans have too.. So dont feel like this is the only engine like it, its quite common, just most poeple dont address it!

[Q-urked]

Thanks for the response. I'm considering the options as we speak. Local dealer is bidding 4700 to 5k to do the job. ............ and if history is any guide, he'll have the opportunity to lard the job with notable extras.

A local independent, which I've used in the past, is quoting 3500 to 4k.

I don't know how that compares to the rest of the country but that's what we have locally.

"Timing is everything, sell the horse before he dies." .......... heh, heh.

[DAEDALUS]

Keep looking. The poor service writers at the do-anything shops have to rely on what their shop manuals and generic databases tell them. They are probably quoting you for the job including replacing the timing chains, which does not have to be done. Be sure the service writer understands this when giving you a quote.

[elwesso]

T3 did the guides for a grand..... OTher members have taken it to NICO members and gotten an even better deal.....

[Q-urked]

The issue seems to be one of labor. The dealer is quoting 27 hrs. The infiniti manual declares engine removal to be avenue of replacement. If they do it that way, I would guess that 27 hrs is reasonable BUT ............ I have a feeling that the job can be done without engine removal and the labor saved (but still billed) is gravy for the dealer. I would expect ........... but don't know .......... that parts are a minor fraction of the cost of the job.

For the moment, I'll cast about and see what I can find for other sources of repair. The rig is due for an oil change. I think I'll have the old oil run thru a fine mesh screen at the same time and see what turns up for foreign particles.

Thanks for your input.

[elwesso]

Check Q45.org, we have a writeup on the guide replacement process.....

[DAEDALUS]

And read the detailed how-to here on NICO.

http://www.nicoclub.com/zerothread?id=1632

[Q-urked]

Thanks for the link to your replacement post. Printed for reading this evening.

[gniknave]

Q-urked,

First off WELCOME TO NICO! I bought my 90 Q back in early August and found this forum after I put a new engine in it. I'd tell the story behind it but it's a little long. Anyway I've been in search of someone to do the guides for me. I found a guy today that was willing to do the guides at $450-500 labor with me getting the parts from the Infiniti dealer I work at - which would be maybe a few dollars less than you could get them for from Joe at Infiniti of Scottsdale. Were you actually considering doing the guides at $4700-5k? If you were, you could always get a 94-96 Q for close to that price with the updated guides. Of course you risk all of the other things you've done with your current Q throughout it's life having to be done again on a new(er) Q.

I'll tell you right now that nobody in this forum is going to tell you that the right thing to do would be to get rid of your Q. Of course according to the Blue Book value on one of these Q's, it's not cost effective to do the chain guides. But what about in YOUR value? From a former Service Advisor turned Infiniti Sales Consultant, I can't tell you how many times I've seen someone decline to do a big job on a car, go buy another car, and then end up at my shop to do the same job on the used car they just bought. Those people ended up spending twice as much as they would have if they had just done the work the first time.

Anyhow, the best advice I can give is that you should search and search hard for someone to do the guides for you at a decent labor rate. Be aggressive in negotiating with Service MANAGERS (don't deal with writers). If they seem to not feel comfortable doing the job, then move to the next shop. I actually sent links to Q45.org and threads here on Nico to mechanics around here so they could give me a ballpark figure. Some were just d**ks about it and still quoted me the 28.3 hours listed for doing the TIMING CHAIN. Another that I'll never forget actually said they were going to charge 14 hours but DOUBLE their labor rate AND not warranty the work because I was getting the parts myself (aka not letting them mark them up), and I was replacing the plastic that came with the engine with metal. They actually told me that the guides were plastic because they cause less friction than metal, and that metal guides can cause a fire (LOL ya ok). My response was 1) then why did they use metal guides on the 94-96 engines and 2) isn't the purpose of oil to cut down on friction? Lets just say they never got an answer to those questions. NEXT SHOP!

Don't force any shop to work with you, just find one that accepts what you have on the table because that will be the shop that REALLY wants your business. Just use Nico and Q45.org to your advantage. GOOD LUCK!!

[Q451990]

Good advice! The guides can absolutely be replaced without removing the engine. The radiator can even be left in place, although I'd remove it to get extra access room. Keep looking around at your local dealerships and Nissan-specialist independents and try to find someone who has done the job before... It's best to let someone else's car be the test case.

Q-urked, you are absolutely justified to be worried about the guides - my impecably maintained Q had 120K when the guides failed.

Heath

[Q-urked]

Thanks for your extended thoughts. My thanks also Daedelus and ellwesso also.

Having read Daedelus' guide replacement procedure last nite, I have no qualms about replacing the damned things myself. I've maintained personal vehicles from the very first. Tools and shop space are no problem. What is lacking is the desire to do it. At 66 the novelty of chasing a new problem has worn thing. A personal problem, fur shur.

Again, having read Daedelus, I see the divide that separates replacement of the guides vs guides plus chains. It should have been obvious but without serious inspection of placement of covers and access, I hadn't given it much thought. My experience with timing chains has been with standard US engines with single cams driving from below rather than above.

Of course, my comments about local costs were all predicated on replacement of both the chains and the guides. Chain problems are unlikely at 110 k, which make the job much simpler and I'll pursue it from that, simpler angle.

Many thanks for your help. It's been very useful.

[gniknave]

I'm glad you came to that conclusion Q-urked. Good luck!

[911/Q45]

What's your location? Perhaps a NICO member could provide expert, or at least enthusiastic support.