pyroteck's build thread (building a better driver)

[rsmithdrift]

Just to update on the brake swap thing. Altima Rotors (93-97) are the same as SE-R rotors that you used and Altima Calipers (93-97) are the same part number and everything as 99 maxima calipers. Same mounting hardware same caliper and same pads. So in other words if you want to do this swap find a 93-97 altima with front brakes and take them lol. You will still have theoverhang though. Still searching a solution to that problem....

[Hoffman5982]

Wow, very entertaining thread. Its good to see a car built for something other than drifting. And that coupe looks great. Both cars look great. I really want to build an s13, but money wont allow it any time soon

[PyroTecK]

Just to update on the brake swap thing. Altima Rotors (93-97) are the same as SE-R rotors that you used and Altima Calipers (93-97) are the same part number and everything as 99 maxima calipers. Same mounting hardware same caliper and same pads. So in other words if you want to do this swap find a 93-97 altima with front brakes and take them lol. You will still have theoverhang though. Still searching a solution to that problem....

yeah... on a track car the overhang just wasnt going to cut it. you saw my solution, it involved a friendly grumpy old road racer and a brake lathe .-) those se-r brembo option rotors are more expensive though than basic white box deals.

[PyroTecK]

Wow, very entertaining thread. Its good to see a car built for something other than drifting. And that coupe looks great. Both cars look great. I really want to build an s13, but money wont allow it any time soon

Thanks man, you'd think with all the info and pictures it would get more comments lol. my budget is dead in the water right now so the car still sits half apart and untouched. The silvia shell was sold a while ago to someone that just wanted the front end... sigh... for a sileighty... bleghh i wish someone would have fixed that damn thing. oh well.

I got another project going though and anyone (thats close enough) is welcome to come check it out. I'm helping coordinate and run events for a new east coast time attack series. We're running a demo event this sunday at Englishtown nj on the roadcourse, spectators are free and racer registration is already sold out.

http://www.realtimeattack.com

[SX APPEAL]

Well I'd like to boost your budget by a few hundred bucks by buying those rims off of ya, but I'll need a couple more weeks at least, paying rent sucks...

[PyroTecK]

Well I'd like to boost your budget by a few hundred bucks by buying those rims off of ya, but I'll need a couple more weeks at least, paying rent sucks...

lol take your time... im not in too much of a rush. ur 4 lug right, cuz they are?

[SX APPEAL]

Yeah I got one of the few poor little 4 lug S14's lol. But I like 5Zigin FN's and 520's for just that reason. I have 17x7 front and 17x18 rear FN01R-c's on the S13 now, was going to use them on the S14 when its done, but I'd like to get a little more rubber on the road. Did manage to squeeze 245's on the back though

[PyroTecK]

Not bad... now move those 245s to the front

I need to step it up though. I was thinking of doing 255 front and rear but i might just stick to a 245/255 stagger, i have minimal fender gap in the front so the rubbing isnt too bad but i think the 255 might rub a little more on the inside. The rear i wanted to go with a 275 but the sidewall is too tall and the sidewall flex will prob do more damange than the increased tire width will help. let alone the rolling resistance and aero drag and blah blah blah... i do have a set of 255's i need to throw on when the car is ready and test out to see if im happy with those all around on stock metal.

[rsmithdrift]

Just to update on the brake swap thing. Altima Rotors (93-97) are the same as SE-R rotors that you used and Altima Calipers (93-97) are the same part number and everything as 99 maxima calipers. Same mounting hardware same caliper and same pads. So in other words if you want to do this swap find a 93-97 altima with front brakes and take them lol. You will still have theoverhang though. Still searching a solution to that problem....

yeah... on a track car the overhang just wasnt going to cut it. you saw my solution, it involved a friendly grumpy old road racer and a brake lathe .-) those se-r brembo option rotors are more expensive though than basic white box deals.

DING DING DING DING!!!! OMG I FOUND IT!!! The 96 180sx type x non abs non hicas that came with the 280mm front brakes uses 88 maxima calipers! The exact same part. The 84-88 maxima used 274mm 4 lug rotors on the same hub carrier assembly with the same caliper as the 89-99maxima that came with 280mm 5 lug rotors... meaning the caliper hardware is adjusted to be 6mm LOWER. Thus completely removing the gap issue. And better yet because the caliper is the same you can use 180sx, or altima, or 89-99 maxima brake pads for more performance pad options...

180sx brakes = 93-01 altima rotors and 88 maxima calipers and hardware. use pads from altima 93-01 or maxima 84-99 OR 180sx 96 :P

OMG I'm so happy now. I will totally take pics of this once I find the parts I need and get them ready to install. I'll do a write up on it so everybody can know about this...

Edit... Just found out I have to do a little more research on the pad part of this... Turns out though the caliper is the same the PAD is very different. Doesn't even attach to the caliper mounting bracket in the same way... Now I need to figure out how I can make alitma/99 maxima pads fit these brackets... BTW the 88 Maxima pads are 6mm shorter height wise than the altima pads but the exact same lenth so you could use those you just wouldn't have as much contact area... The difference that matters is the part that mounts the pad to the bracket being different... sucky. Maybe I can modify it???

[SX APPEAL]

Not bad... now move those 245s to the front

I need to step it up though. I was thinking of doing 255 front and rear but i might just stick to a 245/255 stagger, i have minimal fender gap in the front so the rubbing isnt too bad but i think the 255 might rub a little more on the inside. The rear i wanted to go with a 275 but the sidewall is too tall and the sidewall flex will prob do more damange than the increased tire width will help. let alone the rolling resistance and aero drag and blah blah blah... i do have a set of 255's i need to throw on when the car is ready and test out to see if im happy with those all around on stock metal.

245 on the front sounds nice, and with maybe a 265 on the back, need to check available tire sizes again... Speaking of which, what tires were you running this past season? I'm building my S14 (the one in my sig) to be a daily drivable (since I'm poor) weekend track car. Planning on attending a few PDX events and track days next summer hopefully. For sure though, when you get serious about selling those wheels, hit me up first.

[PyroTecK]

OMG I'm so happy now. I will totally take pics of this once I find the parts I need and get them ready to install. I'll do a write up on it so everybody can know about this...

dude, i'm deff interested in knowing more about this. people keep telling me that my pads are gonna chew through the rotors in no time so an off the shelf option would be awesome.

245 on the front sounds nice, and with maybe a 265 on the back, need to check available tire sizes again... Speaking of which, what tires were you running this past season? I'm building my S14 (the one in my sig) to be a daily drivable (since I'm poor) weekend track car. Planning on attending a few PDX events and track days next summer hopefully. For sure though, when you get serious about selling those wheels, hit me up first.

the car deff had lotsssss of grip. it was tuned with a little bit of understeer, its good to be able to rear steer with the go pedal. the problem with the wider tires in 17s is that as you go wider the sidewalls go up too. i would have been happy to get a 275/35/17 street tire, but i think sizes like that are only made in r comps.

ive been running the same set of 180 tread wear kuhmo ecsta XS since may 2009. I cant tell you the mileage exactly but theyve been through plenty of autocrosses, i'd say about 10 hrs total on different racetracks and a decent amount of street driving. i did tend to switch them on and off for beater street tires and saved them a bit for the track but still... they did me well. i think they still have a little bit of life left to beat on.

i think anything between 200-140 treadwear will be a good performance/street tire. kuhmos (180tw) falkens (200tw) hankooks (140) id say would be good choices.

i'll pm u about the wheels.

[rsmithdrift]

OMG I'm so happy now. I will totally take pics of this once I find the parts I need and get them ready to install. I'll do a write up on it so everybody can know about this...

dude, i'm deff interested in knowing more about this. people keep telling me that my pads are gonna chew through the rotors in no time so an off the shelf option would be awesome.

.

In two weeks I'll install this and do a write up with pictures. I can tell you I have looked at cad drawings at nissan and compared the actual parts enough to know that the 88 maxima has the same SIZE and everything caliper as the 99 maxima the only difference is that the back of the caliper has a wierd clip thing for the brake lines (I heard that the lack of these on the 99maxima calipers caused an issue btw) and isn't as pretty looking if that's a valid way to describe it lol. they are totally interchangeable though. And the bracket is slightly smaller and so are the pads. (6mm to be exact) BTW the 180sx uses the 88 maxima brake pads from the factory and just leaves 6mm of the rotor unused below the pad...

Just found out I have to do a little more research on the pad part of this though... Turns out though the caliper is the same the PAD is very different. Doesn't even attach to the caliper mounting bracket in the same way... Now I need to figure out how I can make alitma/99 maxima pads fit these brackets... BTW the 88 Maxima pads are 6mm shorter height wise than the altima pads but the exact same lenth so you could use those you just wouldn't have as much contact area... The difference that matters is the part that mounts the pad to the bracket being different... sucky. Maybe I can modify it??? Looks like all I'd have to do is grind off the stability tabs on either end of the pad and it should work. Mabye I can use the hardware for the altima to mount them to these brackets somehow w/o modification?? IDK I'll definately figure it out though.

And when I do I'm taking pictures and everything and making that write up. This is awesome so far though.

[SX APPEAL]

the car deff had lotsssss of grip. it was tuned with a little bit of understeer, its good to be able to rear steer with the go pedal. the problem with the wider tires in 17s is that as you go wider the sidewalls go up too. i would have been happy to get a 275/35/17 street tire, but i think sizes like that are only made in r comps.

ive been running the same set of 180 tread wear kuhmo ecsta XS since may 2009. I cant tell you the mileage exactly but theyve been through plenty of autocrosses, i'd say about 10 hrs total on different racetracks and a decent amount of street driving. i did tend to switch them on and off for beater street tires and saved them a bit for the track but still... they did me well. i think they still have a little bit of life left to beat on.

i think anything between 200-140 treadwear will be a good performance/street tire. kuhmos (180tw) falkens (200tw) hankooks (140) id say would be good choices.

i'll pm u about the wheels.

Hmmm, actually now that I'm looking around a bit, there are quite a few decent tires available in a 275/40/17, including those Kumho XS's you were running.

How was the clearance in the S13 with 245's on the front? Do they stick out very far past the edge of the fender? I remember you saying something about a 5mm spacer to clear the coils, how about the wheel well/fender, any issues there? I think the overall geometry of the front wheel wells on the S13/S14 is similar enough to compare, but I'm not even totally sure about that.

[PyroTecK]

that's with a light roll, the fender would barely rub over the tire and push out of the way. The fenderlining is removed and as far as inside clearance the tire rubbed in certain places under full lock... but on a road course i dont think you would ever be at full lock.

275/40/17 is what i was considering but Ive read about the taller sidewall affecting handling, numbing up the feel and having more flex. Seems like 275/35/17 doesnt even exist anymore.

btw... i had some people argue with me about it when I first said I was putting 245s on the front. i got reactions of "omg y are you doing such a low profile, 40 is a rubber band. go with a 225/45/17. You can't fit anything wider in the front of an s13!!!"

245/40 is nearly identical in sidewall height with a 225/45, and a 275/35 is the same story. 275/40 adds about 1" in diameter over a 245/40. .-)

[PyroTecK]

oh alignment specs.

camber -2 degrees front -1.5 rear 6 degrees caster and 0 toe all around. pretty mild.

[rsmithdrift]

oh alignment specs.

camber -2 degrees front -1.5 rear 6 degrees caster and 0 toe all around. pretty mild.

That's actually fairly agressive in my book for a dd. But I imagine this car isn't your dd either. Since you track it so much and tear the engine down freaquently now it seems. lol. My car is dd and I run -1.5 in the front and -1.0 in the back and factory 7* caster and like 0.02 away from no toe in the safe direction all around.

But I got the 88 maxima/JDM 180sx chucki/type x calipers and brackets and pads today. Bought everything new as a complete set at the REAL autoparts store. mainly foreign. The regular autoparts stores (oriely and autozone) don't carry the loaded calipers. But it was 50.99 for each remanufactured loaded caliper with raybestos semi metallic pads. (will upgrade later to Hawk HPS) They bolt right up too btw. Now I'm just waiting on my crossdrilled/slotted rotors to arrive. They shipped out yesterday so hopefully they make it before the holiday... I think this is the ultimate solution to 4 lug big brake/true 180sx type x upgrade. You do HAVE to use the 88 Maxima/180sx pads though. They're very different from the 99 max/altima pads... No biggie. They will meet the rotor at the same height and have the same contact area they just wont overhang. The difference is exactly 6mm too btw I measured at the autoparts store this afternoon when I was trying to make the altima pads fit these brackets lol. I suppose you could massage the brackets enough to make them fit... but that's just more cutting on heavy metal than I intend to do. lol. Will update when complete and document the install with pictures. Will also make a new thread for it so as to not totally thread jack yours lmao.

[SX APPEAL]

I think this is the ultimate solution to 4 lug big brake/true 180sx type x upgrade.

http://www.enjukuracing.com/circuit-spo ... -7667.html

[rsmithdrift]

I think this is the ultimate solution to 4 lug big brake/true 180sx type x upgrade.

http://www.enjukuracing.com/circuit-spo ... -7667.html

That's nice but not everyone can do the z32 swap to their car. Thier are too many "come along" mods required for them. Such as different wheels, Even if you do manage to get 4 lug z32 rotors the calipers are still too big for the 15" wheels... I'm not ready for a wheel upgrade yet. That's too pricey. Plus I got my cross drill/slot altima rotors for 70 bucks. And the loaded 88 maxima calipers for 181 bucks - the 70 dollar core charge. So really the calipers were only 110 and that's with raybestos simi-metallic pads. And everything just bolts on. And the brake bias wont be changed that much. I think the 180sx mod is a good option for many people. Including myself.

[SX APPEAL]

Yeah, I was pretty turned off to the Z32 swap for a long time until I found those rotors, after that the door was opened lol. True its a lot more expensive. So far for me its: master cylinder- $90, front calipers- $120 used, rotors- $140, pads- $$$ a lot for good ones, lines- $105. And thats just for the front. I don't mind shifting the bias a little towards the front, they way I'm building my car, it's likely to be a little tail happy under decel anyway, so the bias should help to cure some of that.

[PyroTecK]

That's actually fairly agressive in my book for a dd. But I imagine this car isn't your dd either.

I actually put 80+ miles a day on the car on that setup and autox and tracked it, it was and will be my daily once I get it back on the road. Believe me I'm not happy about having it off the road and having to tear it down once again. I did take a few more steps towards getting it ready today, just have to drop the trans and pull the motor out now and start cleaning everything up. Then I get to inspect everything and put it all back together. I miss driving this thing.

btw deff let me know how your brake setup goes, i like what im hearing so far and how much uve researched.

[rsmithdrift]

That's actually fairly agressive in my book for a dd. But I imagine this car isn't your dd either.

I actually put 80+ miles a day on the car on that setup and autox and tracked it, it was and will be my daily once I get it back on the road. Believe me I'm not happy about having it off the road and having to tear it down once again. I did take a few more steps towards getting it ready today, just have to drop the trans and pull the motor out now and start cleaning everything up. Then I get to inspect everything and put it all back together. I miss driving this thing.

btw deff let me know how your brake setup goes, i like what im hearing so far and how much uve researched.

Damn. You must eat tires then.. and I had to research the hell out of it. I know nissan reuses all of their main parts on alot of their cars and I know for a fact that 180sx don't have the overhang... So I knew it was just a matter of searching to find the right combination of parts to have the same thing. And it took me the first day of endless searching to realise that THIS HAS NEVER BEEN DONE BEFORE!... :-O

But you'll be the first to know. I'll put a link to my write up in your thread for you and anyone else who finds your thread for this brake swap like I did. I'd of loved if someone HAD done this before me. It would have been alot less work and would've been done a month ago haha. BTW I got the rotors in the mail today. So hopefully Saturday I'll be able to install since it's my only day off work.

[PyroTecK]

Damn. You must eat tires then..

nope lol, heres a pic of my tires when i took them off last year for winter. I'll be honest i did switch back and forth between these wheels and my oz's and my se's and my winter set. I'm a slight wheel whore, but there wasnt any excessive camber wear on them. Even after hard tracking at pocono and njmp the tire temps were even across the tire. You might want to go with less camber but I think my setup was a happy medium for a track/street vehicle.



I'm also with you on the "nobody has done this before" feeling of the brake setup, it was what partially motivated me to try out the spec v brembo rotors. That solution worked for me, can't wait to see if yours works out of the box.

[motoman399]

the build is looking good. that ams manifold is so nice. lucky you got one

[PyroTecK]

the build is looking good. that ams manifold is so nice. lucky you got one

it took about 6 months to get done and all its done so far is melt most of my car and set on fire the rest of it. im off and on with the thing but i might stick it out and see if i can still make it work. i like the piece and it was deff quality made but customer support for 240 guys died a disgusting death just after that last manifold group buy. it used to be shiney

[PyroTecK]

A few update pix:






Still lots of cleaning up to do.

[rsmithdrift]

Damn I remember all too well doing that to my friends 240 not long ago.. yikes that was a chore..

Anways I wanted to tell you the brake swap went PERFECTLY. Bolted right up with only modification being to the splash guard and NO OVERHANG AT ALL.

Here's a link to the write up I made with pics...
diy-direct-bolt-up-180sx-280mm-brake-sw ... 16233.html

[PyroTecK]

Hey man i checked it out and it seems like you did exactly the same thing, and from the pix u still have the pad hanging over the brake rotor... so you have a hunk of brake pad not being used. I put up all the info in my write up including images with the specs, the rotors with the over hang are the 280mm rotors or smaller. I figured out that what i needed was a 290mm rotor in order for there to be no overhang and for the rotor to clear the caliper. i thought that you had found a 290mm out of the box that would work. i noticed that my pedal was a lot firmer when i put the new rotors on and with the over hang was gone.

[rsmithdrift]

Hey man i checked it out and it seems like you did exactly the same thing, and from the pix u still have the pad hanging over the brake rotor... so you have a hunk of brake pad not being used. I put up all the info in my write up including images with the specs, the rotors with the over hang are the 280mm rotors or smaller. I figured out that what i needed was a 290mm rotor in order for there to be no overhang and for the rotor to clear the caliper. i thought that you had found a 290mm out of the box that would work. i noticed that my pedal was a lot firmer when i put the new rotors on and with the over hang was gone.

No dude their is no overhang. What you see in those pics is that I hadn't gotten brake fluid into the caliper yet so the pads were separated from the rotor on either side. So in the pics you can see like 1mm of pad looking above the rotor but trust me it's just a trick of the eye. They are perfectly flush with the top of the rotor. you can run your finger across the top of the rotor in the caliper hole and thier are no ridges or valleys other than the vents in the middle of the rotor.

But I didn't find a 4 lug 290mm rotor to fit the calipers that you have that cause the 6mm over hang. They do make a 5 lug rotor in 295mm form though. That would solve it perfectly for you. I forget which car it's for but it does exist. On multiple newer nissans I believe. Including the q45. So if you want to fix it without changing the calipers then you have to redrill to 4 lug or do a 5 lug swap. However this rotor may be thicker so that would make it useless. I haven't looked into them as much because I avoided looking at 5 lug rotors when gathering info for my swap. I am still using 280mm altima rotors. That's what the 180sx uses in japan. They also use the same caliper I am using. You are using a different caliper that has a larger bracket on it. My brakes are 100% USDM bought and assembled 91-96 180sx parts.

So off the shelf you'd have to stick with the altima/SER rotors like the ones you first had.. and switch the caliper/bracket/pads to the 85-88 maxima ones.... Or you could do z32 swap and just get the 4 lug ones from circuit sports. A bit more pricey but likely worth it for your application.

[PyroTecK]

good sht then. my bad.

[PyroTecK]

So a new idea im toying around with...