putting a fan in front of a smic, will it do anything?

[AN89HATCH]

I have an idea, to put something like a single electric radiator fan in front of my smic, and I am wondering will this help at all?? Has any one tryed this?

[TrunkMonkey]

i think the biggest issue is space. i don't think there's too much room left for a fan once an smic is in place.

-demetrius

[ftrs13]

will help cool down after a drag run or something, but in normal operation it will cause disturbances in the flow ... such as on the highway.

you shouldnt need this unless heat soak is occuring at low speeds, or your intercooler isnt getting any direct airflow

[Checkered-Member]

I have an idea, to put something like a single electric radiator fan in front of my smic, and I am wondering will this help at all?? Has any one tryed this?

an IC sprayer will do the job well,water or CO2

[Red-KAT]

Water is good...

CO2 is better.... -80f

[andrave]

yeah but for water all you'd have to do is reroute the windshield sprayers. for co2, blah, and you have to get it refilled.

[GlacierFreeze]

The water resavoir(sp) would have to be refilled also. Might as well use CO2

[MECPInstaller]

I would think CO2 wouldn't cost to much and you could probaly get a full size tank (the 5 ft tall ones) pretty cheap since its just an inert gas. Sorry if I'm hijackin the thread but has anyone used a co2 sprayer in any form(intercooler sprayer, intake bulb,or fuel rail cooler) and would it be worth it?

And about what ftrs13 said about the fan causing air disturbance what about placing a small fan behind the ic instead of in front?

[C-Kwik]

CO2 requires that you use high pressure lines. You might as well use a NOS kit for this.

I prefer water as a practical use medium. It's much cheaper and easier to get a hold of. CO2 releases from a tank at very cold temperatures, but would probably not be terribly effective. At speed, you get a lot of airflow through the core just from the movement of the car. The CO2 will dilute with this air, so wou won't get as much cooling as you might hope for. Water on the other hand, will "stick" to the intercooler much better since it is in liquid form. As the air and intercooler adds heat to the water, the water will start to evaporate. As the water vaporizes it absorbs a lot of heat in the process. This process contributes to the reason CO2 and NOS is released from a tank at such cold temperatures. Both of these gasses store as a liquid under high pressure. As pressure is released, the liquid forms of the gas begin to expand and evaporate. This brings the temperature of the gasses down tremendously. While the release of pressurized air into the atmosphere also contributes to this cooling, it is much less significant as the volume of gas is low. Take a Nitrogen tank at 4500 psi and empty it at the same rate as you might with a CO2 tank and the Nitrogen tank will maintain a much more stable temperature.

So, why water? It's cheap and easy to find. The fact that most of the evaporation process will take place while in contact with the intercooler will be very desirable. The system will also be much simpler.

[MECPInstaller]

Your a genius ckwik, your answering all my questions:) One downfall, you can't do a ricer tyte purge with water like you can with a compressed gas....

[red240ne]

So is spraying the IC something that you would only want to do after the race..to eliminate heatsoak...Or, would it benefit to spray before a race too?

[Def]

You'd want to spray it before the race. As the water evaporates, it will effectively increase the efficiency of the intercooler while you're moving.

This isn't really a huge difference, but if your IC is prone to heatsoaking, this can easily be the difference between it providing no cooling, or it still working after the spray.

[D-UNIT]

There is only one problem - you spray water at most race tracks , you don't race. It is especially a no no at drag races. I used to get busted all the time for having my A/C on in the staging lanes. It makes it very dangerous for other drivers.

[Wakkolio]

The fan will be a waste of money, very little sigificant cooling for your IC. I guess you can use it to knock little rocks away from your ic.

[C-Kwik]

So is spraying the IC something that you would only want to do after the race..to eliminate heatsoak...Or, would it benefit to spray before a race too?

Spraying anything on the intercooler after a race would be pointless. Heatsoak is really only a problem when you are trying to boost more and you run into it. Heatsoak makes an intercooler ineffective. Water will probably do very little before a run, but will become more effective under heat and when the car gets moving and gets more air moving across it. NOS or CO2 could be more effective at a standstill as the gas hitting it will be much colder and will allow the intercooler to start off cooler.

[C-Kwik]

There is only one problem - you spray water at most race tracks , you don't race. It is especially a no no at drag races. I used to get busted all the time for having my A/C on in the staging lanes. It makes it very dangerous for other drivers.

Good point. It is of course important to consider the rules. CO2, in this case may be an issue as well. I'm not sure any racing organizations would allow a CO2 tank on board. At least not without meeting certain standards.

[C-Kwik]

The fan will be a waste of money, very little sigificant cooling for your IC. I guess you can use it to knock little rocks away from your ic.

Not necessarily. This is really dependent on a lot of factors. If the intercooler doesn't see a lot of airflow, even at speed, then it might be beneficial to run a fan on it.

[huguetpj]

I would think CO2 wouldn't cost to much and you could probaly get a full size tank (the 5 ft tall ones) pretty cheap since its just an inert gas.

Down here it IS pretty cheap... like $10 for a 15lb tank, and that is a lot of CO2

Quote » Sorry if I'm hijackin the thread but has anyone used a co2 sprayer in any form(intercooler sprayer, intake bulb,or fuel rail cooler) and would it be worth it? [/quote]

A friend of mine with a non-intercooled turbo eclipse have been working on this system for a while. His is up and running using just the tank's vavle to control the CO2 flow, mine is awaiting engine rebuild but already have an electric solenoid. Anyway his exact remark was.... WOW. He says it definetely works. But remember his is non-intercooled... so probably it is just making up for an intercooler. My test will be performed shortly after the engine is rebuilt.

By the way... if anyone is wondering... he is spraying his intake tube just before the TB.

[huguetpj]

NOS or CO2 could be more effective at a standstill as the gas hitting it will be much colder and will allow the intercooler to start off cooler.

I believe that is the original intention of the cryo system. Spray before the race... get that intercooler white from the ice forming to have it start of much cooler than ambient temp. Of course this would be valid for drag racing. For track... maybe re-spraying every now and then, but as you said... it would be better at lower speeds.

[huguetpj]

Good point. It is of course important to consider the rules. CO2, in this case may be an issue as well. I'm not sure any racing organizations would allow a CO2 tank on board. At least not without meeting certain standards.

Do they allow N2O? If so, why wouldn't they allow CO2? Just wondering... down here... well... they usually don't even notice... at least in amateur racing.

[C-Kwik]

Do they allow N2O? If so, why wouldn't they allow CO2? Just wondering... down here... well... they usually don't even notice... at least in amateur racing.

Well racing sanctions may have different rules for proper equipment. A tank built for commercial use of CO2 gasses ay not have any ratings that the raceing sanction can work with. This is purely speculation on my part. And race tracks around here have tech inspections that you must pass.

[C-Kwik]

Down here it IS pretty cheap... like $10 for a 15lb tank, and that is a lot of CO2



A friend of mine with a non-intercooled turbo eclipse have been working on this system for a while. His is up and running using just the tank's vavle to control the CO2 flow, mine is awaiting engine rebuild but already have an electric solenoid. Anyway his exact remark was.... WOW. He says it definetely works. But remember his is non-intercooled... so probably it is just making up for an intercooler. My test will be performed shortly after the engine is rebuilt.

By the way... if anyone is wondering... he is spraying his intake tube just before the TB.

I really doubt it will have that great an impact. Especially in such a limited area. Consider that the surface area to volume ratio is quite low in a larger pipe. And with the amount of air that flows through it, and the fact that only the boundary layer of air near the pipe will be getting cooled, it would have nowhere near the effectiveness of even a small intercooler.

[Def]

I hope you guys realize that any CO2 being sucked into the intake will REALLY decrease your power. You're effectively robbing the engine of a large volume of oxygen by doing that.

I would personally work on making an effecient airflow setup with ducting and discharging of the waste airflow rather than try these crazy scheme of spraying stuff on the intercooler. If you idle alot before you race(drag racing), then look into an air to water intercooler. Some ice in the loop and you'll be getting nice low temps all the way down the track.

[huguetpj]

I hope you guys realize that any CO2 being sucked into the intake will REALLY decrease your power. You're effectively robbing the engine of a large volume of oxygen by doing that.

Nobody is dumping CO2 into the intake. Just over the cooler. In effecti icing the cooler and lowering the temps... without the hassle of air/water cooler and ice.

[huguetpj]

A tank built for commercial use of CO2 gasses ay not have any ratings that the raceing sanction can work with.

Then use an N2O system with sanctioned ratings.

It sometimes pays to live in a third world country.

[Def]

Nobody is dumping CO2 into the intake. Just over the cooler. In effecti icing the cooler and lowering the temps... without the hassle of air/water cooler and ice.

...and you don't think your intake is ingesting some of it? I guarantee you that if you release that much CO2 within 6-7 ft of your filter that your motor will drop in power due to CO2 ingestion.

Nitrous oxide on the other hand - that's not a bad thing to have your engine suck in.

[Open4Cycle]

This has been used for sometime now and works! Even better than evaporating H2O is evaporating LN2 or Liquid CO2. The boiling temp is much lower.

[huguetpj]

...and you don't think your intake is ingesting some of it? I guarantee you that if you release that much CO2 within 6-7 ft of your filter that your motor will drop in power due to CO2 ingestion.

Nitrous oxide on the other hand - that's not a bad thing to have your engine suck in.

I see your point. Although the probability that the amount of CO2 we are spraying at say 2-3 feet from the intake really affecting the engine is, I belive, too low to consider. When spraying a front mounted intercooler and having the filter inside the engine bay the effects can be ignored completely. Now in my case, or my friends case for that matter, since I have my filter in front of the left wheel well, some CO2 will eventually be ingested into the motor. I still think it can be ignored and the idea is still to spray the cooler before the run, not while the run is taking place. And in the case of a track run, when I mentioned to spray once in a while, the CO2 will dissipate or be consumed by the intake in what? 1 sec? Still ignorable in my opinion.

[C-Kwik]

This has been used for sometime now and works! Even better than evaporating H2O is evaporating LN2 or Liquid CO2. The boiling temp is much lower.

I'm no chemist or physicist but it's not so much the temperature of the boiling point that is as important as is the actual energy that is required or used to boil the liquid, whether it be H20, N20, CO2, or N2(liquid). Both pressurized liquid gasses and water have advantages and disadvantages.

Pressurized forms of liquid gas generally have a lower boiling point, as you said, which is great during a standstill. It requires no outside sources of energy to boil it since the boiling temp is lower, so the ambient air has more than enough energy to evaporate the liquid. And it can also be used to bring down the overall temperature of the intercooler prior to the run, perhaps bringing the actual efficiency up to possible over 100% even if for a short period of time. There are a lot of factors that would contribute to this, including how much heat and airflow the turbo is putting into the airstream, how large the intercooler is and perhaps the broadness and density of the liquid gas spray.

With an intercooler, the best results are typically attained if the overall temp of the intercooler is lower and not just once specific part. Dwell time is important to effectively brining down the temp of the charge air. But if only a small section of the IC is cooler, then the dwell time in this area will be very short and perhaps very ineffective. You can use a nozzle with a broad spray pattern, but then you allow more ambient air to mix with the gas and this will bring up the temp of the gas. This is only a small issue at lower speeds.

With water, the advantages are that it's cheap and very available. In fact, if worse came to worst, you could use piss in the system. Not that you should or would want to. Another advantage is that most of the energy it absorbs will be from the contact with the intercooler. The flow of ambient air will also push some of the water through the core and perhaps contribute to some of the evaporation process. But the direct contact with the intercooler will help to cause the heat absorption to occur right at the intercooler. Liquid generally absorbs more heat than air. While the overall temperature of the intercooler probably won't get to below ambient or even all the way to ambient levels, it will more or less keep it stable. The disadvantages are that it does very little to cool an intercooler prior to a run and some of the water can be blown through the intercooler fins. The area of spray is also important, but with a fine spray, it can in a way adhere to the fins to some extent before it is evaporated.

Each person really needs to evaluate his own needs on this matter, for all practical purposes, I'd go with water for the simplicity, easy access to the medium, the low cost and the effectiveness considering the costs.