Put up your dukes! RB25 is the best bang for the buck!

Post by **s14=pimpin'** » Tue Jan 14, 2003 11:01 am

too many people saying a SR will walk all over a RB25 powered 240. I find it hard to believe, saying that the same amount of money was invested into both. I still think the RB25 is a good buy, 260HP stock, compared to 210, for about a grand more.

someone, please prove me right or wrong, and put down some links or personal experience to do so.

sprry, but this battle will never end, or so it appears

Post by **Siddhartha** » Tue Jan 14, 2003 11:01 am

Bring on da noise!!!I wanna see where this goes. Some one surely has valid points to contest this statement.

Post by **themadscientist** » Tue Jan 14, 2003 11:01 am

dollar for dollar, RB25. The aftermarket support is just as strong as the SR and the iron block requires less work to take past 400hp. Would I do it, well seeing as how I just scored an RB25 for $100.00 maybe I'll try it. Don't cry guys I feel your pain.Whatta ya think 1BAD, we could end this argument. once and for all.

Post by **WDRacing** » Tue Jan 14, 2003 11:01 am

If I can make over 400hp with an RB20 and not do anything but add a bigger turbo wrap it up with thermo tech and flood it with alcohol. I know I can make more with the RB25. No way your getting that out of an SR20...its almost laughable.

70hp from the get go means the SR will have to run an additional 8-9 psi just to get even with the RB25 stock.

But I'm biased, I hate SR's. I'd rather drive the tiny *** CA...no offense there Doc, I know your partial to your CA's.

WD

Post by **SLIMMY240** » Tue Jan 14, 2003 11:01 am

how is the torque curve compared to the ka. i got a ka waiting for parts, but the rb idea doesnt sound too bad. if i can get a rb25det, or maybe (do i dare say it) rb26dett over her for about $1000, i might look into it, im sure it could be stuffed in there with enough work.

Post by **Syntax360** » Tue Jan 14, 2003 11:01 am

but what about the availability of replacement parts when an RB breaks? KA and CA don't pose much of a problem here, and at least the SR is a popular swap and I would imagine replacement parts are more available (or at least more accessible in a smaller timeframe) than parts for an RB would be. ?

Post by **s14=pimpin'** » Tue Jan 14, 2003 11:01 am

great points guys! One thing that I have come to realise with my research on RB motors is, everyone who owns a skyline always complains at how expensive aftermarket parts are for their rides. Pretty much everything is expensive, but we're just talking motors here.

So, how do aftermarket part prices compare with SR parts?

I'm still gung ho about the RB, although some good SR points have been made in the past..........

looking for some knock out blows here...............

Post by **silviaone1** » Tue Jan 14, 2003 11:01 am

the rb25det is one bad azz motor

Post by **Structure240sx** » Tue Jan 14, 2003 11:01 am

does it swap into the 240 as easily supposivly (havent done a swap yet) as the sr or ca

Post by **S13 King** » Tue Jan 14, 2003 11:01 am

well i'm debating on which motor to go with also. As much as i'd like to have 500hp on stock internals but really which would be the best way to go. When i checked out doing the Skyline swap I was looking at 10g's on the motor install parts and making sure the engine worked as it should. Can anyone provide any insight?

Steve [email protected]

Post by **themadscientist** » Tue Jan 14, 2003 11:01 am

I keep hearing guys saying "300hp on the stock internals", "400hp on the stock internals", "500 hp on the stock internals", these are used engines with unknown maintenance histories. While an engine has been proven to hold X amount of horsepower on stock guts that doesn't mean the one you get is any shape to handle that. Nothing against the importers, there is no way they can know what an engine is going to do beyond start up and hold a good compression figure.Anybody who is serious about building power should be ready with a full cadre of parts for a full rebuild when the motor falls off the back of the UPS truck at your house, if 400hp on stock internals is what you want you better have a set of new in the box Nissan pistons, polished balanced and fitted with new rings ready to go. Just my .02 but a thrown rod or a munched piston on a Saturday night when the part you need is halfway around the world seems like a messed up situation best avoided.My last CA was a bad lil sum*****, killin turbo RBs(granted tired ones but still) It pulled good power figures and had excellent compression across all cylinders, it showed no signs of any problems. I pulled it apart to put some fresh bearings, rings and slugs because that is how I do things(read my mantra above) I am greeted with a plugged up oil passage in my crank and a severely overheated bearing on #1 con rod. No problem, I am in here with the parts to fix, no harm no foul. Now if I had done what I see a lot of people talking about doing and just slapped on a 2mm head gasket and my T04E I would have been smiling for about a week before I heard fate knocking on my crank. That would suck but I could have fixed it, then agian I am not in Cleveland and I don't have to wait a month for stuff like RB guys and on some special parts CA an SR guys.Everyone is too busy keeping up with the Joneses but Jones is on the side of the road busted a lot from what I see.

Post by **s14=pimpin'** » Tue Jan 14, 2003 11:01 am

true true. So you, yourself have taken out RB powered 240's in a CA? Mind me asking what work was done to that motor, hoe much it would cost a guy with NO hook ups? Any idea of your power #'s, 1/4 mile times?

just curious, thanks

Post by **themadscientist** » Tue Jan 14, 2003 11:01 am

No, I have taken out dumb Air Force dependent kids in tired Skylines with a 150hp non-turbo CA18DE-powered Silvia. I feel like a cynobyte, "oh the screams of embarassment, their agony is delicious"

Post by **s14=pimpin'** » Tue Jan 14, 2003 11:01 am

LOL, I feel like a dog chasing its tail!

Post by **Onizuka** » Tue Jan 14, 2003 11:01 am

Im sorry to kill all of your dreams about the rb25det but its not that great of an engine. Here are a few facts:

-Stock ECU has locked engine managment. What does this mean? well it means you have to get a new fuel managment system if you ever want to see the power numbers above 200Kw (about 260hp). It also means that the engine is stuck on the Japanese fuel timing map which means the engine will run like **** (i.e. way less than 250 hp) on american fuel unless you want to use octane booster all the time. cost of Apex'i Power FC? $1000

-the compression ratio is 9:1 whichs isnt that great for turbo. Head gasket for lower compression $250

- The stock turbocharger in non-technical terms blows A$$. you will never get more than 250hp out of it. cost of new turbo? $1500-$the sky is the limit

- I dont even know how much it costs to get one stuck in a 240 but i bet its $$$$$$$$$$. Too much custom stuff for it to be cheap.

I think it would be an awsome swap and i would love to see it, but if your concerned with performance for the money then your better off with the sr20det...

EDIT: for that price you would see an s13 sr20det puting out more than 350hp. And the sr20det does have more aftermarket support than the rb25det.

EDIT: I also forgot to mention that the rb25's stock injectoer run out at about 290 hp and 6 bigger injector will also cost alot of money

Post by **themadscientist** » Tue Jan 14, 2003 11:01 am

the computer can be easily tweaked with a piggyback like a SAFC, the turbo is weird(plastic compressor wheel) but will support 300hp all day. Did it, done it, ran fine you are wrong, sorry.

Post by **Onizuka** » Tue Jan 14, 2003 11:01 am

themadscientist wrote:the computer can be easily tweaked with a piggyback like a SAFC, the turbo is weird(plastic compressor wheel) but will support 300hp all day. Did it, done it, ran fine you are wrong, sorry.

Im not saying the rb25det isnt a good motor, because it is. im simply saying that after the costs of the engine, the shipping, and installment into a 240 you could already have an sr20 with lots of hp in your car.

If I lived in japan like you do i would get the rb25det. Infact, like i said already, if i had the money i wouldnt mind getting one right now!!

EDIT: thankyou for correcting me on the turbo limitations but you have to admit the stock engine has its drawbacks just like any other engine.

Post by **themadscientist** » Tue Jan 14, 2003 11:01 am

I agree with you on the riskiness of a stateside high power RB, if I were stateside I would have a KA just to be different and for parts availability. The way I learned about the plastic blade was funny. My freind sent his 25 turbo to turbonetics for an overhaul, they mentioned finding the plastic blade. We said B.S., no way. Turbonetics sent the wheel back on thier dime just to show us, we had a good laugh.

Post by **Onizuka** » Tue Jan 14, 2003 11:01 am

lol. I heard it was made of ceramic or something but plastic?

I wish i could go over to japan, I really am a big fan of the RB series. I have just heard stories about the rb25 like the one you just told me.

I also have heard that RB20's get lots of action in silvias and 180's over there, is this true?

Post by **themadscientist** » Tue Jan 14, 2003 11:01 am

no, the 26 has been done in Silvias but I have seen no 20s here. Back before the arrival of the RB25 the RB20 in the Skyline GTS-T was frustrating the SR-powered Silvias, it's just a stronger engine. There were dozens of street driven 400hp RB20s prowling. Now the motor has been all but forgotten and the kids in the GTS-Ts want to pull the 20 for a 25 asap but haven't even tried the 20. I is sad when some 19 year old kid who has owned his Skyline for a month is telling me how he's going to get a 25 because the 20 sucks. I think "how would you know?" he's feeding the thing military base gas(the same stuff gas-powered military vehicles use) and it hasn't seen a tune up in ten years, of course it has no power!I took a 1989 Skyline GTS-T automatic rated at 215ps(210hp?) back in 89' that I bought for $1500.00 and I did the following;Punched out the catput a dump pipe off the turbo actuatorcleaned the coils and replaced the plugs with $2.00 AutolitesReplaced the fuel filter after flushing the base gas out put on an HKS Bugeye air filter cleaned the flow meter and throttlebodycleaned the roadgrime out of intercooler core and flushed itput a $10.00 used one knob Apex AFC set to +12% to up the fuelUsed a hardware store compressor valve to up the boost to 14lbs(it already had a Blitz Nur spec muffler)

I took it to the dyno and the 13-year old 80000K+ RB20 made 250hp to the wheels on 100 octane japanese pumpgas(only thing I ever use). Even with the dead auto trans I killed innumerable RB25s, two WRXs and even a stroked boosted Miata with over $20,000.00 invested in it. It took me $3000.00 dollars and a weekend to do it. Yeah but those snot-nosed kids are right the RB20 is junk I should pull it out and get a 25 quick!

Post by **Onizuka** » Tue Jan 14, 2003 11:01 am

Cool, I saw a picture of a RB20det in a silvia and it just looks like an longer version of the CA18det. Thats what i origionaly wanted but there is no support for it in the USA. I like the rb20 because it is difforent, nobody else has it over here. But with my budget i am forced to settle with an sr20det. Hey its better than nothing...

Post by **themadscientist** » Tue Jan 14, 2003 11:01 am

to say the least! Well if you have to settle, sheesh!

Post by **Onizuka** » Tue Jan 14, 2003 11:01 am

HA! There is just no-one who imports the rb20. they only cost like $1500 but they kick arse. I also dont know who i would get to put it in. the sr20 is a drop in but the RB20 requires work that im not capable of. If you know of anyone please do tell.

Post by **themadscientist** » Tue Jan 14, 2003 11:01 am

daunt is working on a RB26 swap with twin turbos so a 20 should be childsplay

Post by **Onizuka** » Tue Jan 14, 2003 11:01 am

yeah, daunt lives quite far away from me.

an rb26 with TT should work, i saw a picture of a 240 with a 2jzgte in it.

wouldn't a rb20 install require welding and custom work?

Post by **themadscientist** » Tue Jan 14, 2003 11:01 am

no. I used all bolt in stuff, crossmembers and such, no welding. The 26? I've never done that personally so I would defer to someone who has, big D

Post by **themadscientist** » Tue Jan 14, 2003 11:01 am

NightXCZ77 wrote: The stock turbo has no plastic parts in it (different member). It has an aluminum compressor wheel and a ceramic exhaust wheel. Night

You have a kouki(late model) turbo, the zenki(early model) has a plastic wheel that's why you don't want it.

Post by **Onizuka** » Tue Jan 14, 2003 11:01 am

NightXCZ77 wrote:I would have to disagree. I think the RB25DET is a great engine.

The stock RB25DET runs just fine in the US off of pump gas. I have one, I'd know. I have over 300 RWHP on my RB25DET with no turbo upgrades. The Power FC is a great tool though, I will not argue on that. I will get one when I have the extra $$$. The stock turbo has no plastic parts in it (different member). It has an aluminum compressor wheel and a ceramic exhaust wheel. Also, the stock turbo can get you way over 300HP. The engine is rated 250, do some simple things like new plugs, intake, downpipe, exhaust, FMIC and boost 14 psi and you can hit 350+ if you tune right.

Most turbo cars (built for race) go with 9/1 compression ratio with forged pistons etc... The higher the compression, the better results you will get. 9.0 is great for creating a lot of HP as long as you have built internals.

Also, if you have a fuel computer, your stock injectors can handle more than 290 HP providing you run greater duty cycles. Simple 444CC GT-R injectors can be had for about $100 used. The swap is just as easy as the SR which means that it doesn't require $$$$$ tons of money.

The RB25DET has more aftermarket support in Japan than the SR, therefore you can get any RB parts here in the states from lisenced dealers allowing you to access more parts than you would find for the SR. You can also get plenty of stock replacement parts for the RB here in the states.

Night

I think the rb25det is a great engine too.

Me and themadscientis have already resolved that it can take 300hp on stock internals. You would know this if you read all of the posts.

You cannot deny that for a daily driver in the USA the sr20det is a better choice than any RB motor. It has a lot more support here.

Talking about high compression racecar engines has nothing to do with my point.

My point is that the sr20 is cheaper and basicly a drop in mod after the wiring is taken care of.

I would like to see an rb25det without a rebuilt turbo hit 350hp.

Post by **APEXi240** » Tue Jan 14, 2003 11:01 am

J-Spec Tuner wrote:I think the rb25det is a great engine too.

J-Spec Tuner wrote:Im sorry to kill all of your dreams about the rb25det but its not that great of an engine.

So which is it? Keep backpeddling.

J-Spec Tuner wrote:Me and themadscientis have already resolved that it can take 300hp on stock internals. You would know this if you read all of the posts.

Way to talk down to someone who JUST stated that they are making over 300whp:rolleyes . If YOU read all the posts you'd realize the change in your opinions and misinformation you state. Good job!

Post by **Onizuka** » Tue Jan 14, 2003 11:01 am

:withstup

Put up your dukes! RB25 is the best bang for the buck!

Put up your dukes! RB25 is the best bang for the buck!

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