Pshh...who needs winter tires? A lesson in driving in snow.

[smockers83]

Well, I guess the third time is the charm. My third attempt at getting the G stored for the winter was successful. It was a chore, but successful. I drove 465 miles as the Midwest and whole state of Michigan got dumped on with snow the day before Christmas Eve.

For the most part, the roads were very manageable. You want to know how I know? I drove them with 2/32 of tread on the rears with no problems. There were times when you couldn't see the road at all because there was that much of it and the plows hadn't come through in awhile. That didn't bother me, I just kept hauling at a blazing speed of 50 MPH. However, what bothered me was seeing everyone else in the ditch with FWD cars to SUVs and trucks, yet here I am in my RWD sports car with essentially no tread passing these people and seeing them in the ditch. I'm not sure if I'm just that lucky or if I really know how to drive in the snow, better than I even thought I was and I already knew I was good.

But this got me thinking seeing all these people in the ditch and having problems and people always coming here looking for input on winter tires and winter driving with their G. If I can do it just fine in my G with no tread, what issues are other people having with the snow? The only thing I could come up with is that under snowy and slippery conditions, is you just have to be smart about what you're doing. That means light acceleration so as to not break traction. That means if you're going to pass, when you change lanes don't be accelerating as you do so, get into the other lane and then accelerate as traction allows you to. That means staying completely focused on where you are on the road so that you're staying the tracks of other cars and staying out of the snow on the sides.

You could just drive a lot slower, which I did, but I also drove at the limit of what the conditions allowed for, probably over the limit at times (areas of completely covered roads and roads coated with ice). But as long as you're smart and understand what causes a car to lose control under slippery conditions, you won't find yourself having problems and won't end up in the ditch. The key is to just get the car rolling without spinning your tires. There were a few times where I laid to heavily onto the gas and found my back end coming around, but at the slightest hint of doing so, just letting off the gas brings the back end back in beautifully. But once a car is rolling without a whole lot of power being put down, you really aren't going to go anywhere except for where you steer the car. But if you make sudden movements, whether it's in steering or acceleration/deceleration, or if you lose your focus and find yourself being pulled into the snow, this can be potentially problematic and dangerous.

Driving in the snow is all about moderating the inputs and with acceleration/deceleration, you can no longer think in terms of speed, but force and torque. If you apply too much torque or if you're cruising and hit a patch of slippery roads and you're going too fast (meaning too much torque at the wheels), you're going to spin out or find yourself all over the road and waving at the guy behind you as you decide to spin around to get that 360 view of the road. You can continue to drive fast over this slippery patch, but you have to moderate the amount of torque/power, which may mean you let off slightly or completely. The key to a slippery patch is just allowing the wheels to roll under the car's own momentum and with as little torque applied as conditions allow. If they're doing that, you aren't going anywhere but straight.

The same can be said in the opposite manner. If you apply too much brake force, you're going to find yourself out of control. Too much brake force applies too much power in the opposite way of acceleration, causing the tires to lose traction.

The third key that I'll go into is the snow itself. The snow on the sides of the road will suck you in if you hit it. This is perhaps the most dangerous of the three because you could be driving fine until you lose focus for that split second and you find yourself getting pulled in towards the snow bank. Once this starts to happen, the best thing you can do is just take your foot off the gas and lightly steer out of it. Any sudden movements in steering or force applied to the tires will only make matters worse. If you can't get out of it, just get the car slowed down until it can make the maneuver. If you have to, you can apply a small amount of brake force, but if you don't have to, don't do it because you don't know what's under the snow.

With that said, happy driving for the rest of the winter to those who this applies to.

[BrandAidDesignG35]

I don't know how you did it... I can barely make it up the small hill past my house if there is any snow... and I have at least 8/32 tread left on Bridgestone turenza's I think... They are all seasons.

I think the real problem in the winter is the dead stop.... I had to crawl up a hill doing 1mph with traffic backing up behind me. I think with the momentum of 50mph, your car is stable, safe, and well balanced.

Good job storing it for the winter... I think it's the safest thing for any G this time of the year... Well... us in the top half of the continent.... Why wasn't I born where it's warm

[SVTCOBRA]

Good job making it there safely!! (I normally replace my tires at 4/32 and they are normally the rears with better on the front).

[ldstang50]

Smocker, not taken anything from you as you make intelligent posts and clearly know what you're doing, but a lot if it has to do with what type of tire you are running. 2/32 of tread on and all season, is better (even if marginally) than a summer tire (like the Potenza RE05's on my car) with 4/32 of tread.But you are absolutely correct in everything you said, no sudden movements, slow steady acceleration, let the car just roll over the slippery stuff, etc. Many people think that because they have AWD and an SUV they are unbeatable in snow. It comes down to traction with your tires and being smart....like you said, no sudden inputs. If your smooth, you'll be fine. My guess for everyone you see of the road is stabbing the brakes and then spinning.Nice work and glad to hear you got your car stored

[smockers83]

^ Yes, that's true about the AS tires and summer tires, but the majority of vehicles on the roads today have AS tires. However, 2/32 tread is the legal minimum and not safe at all, especially in snowy conditions. In these types of conditions and that amount of tread, you're essentially running with a bald tire. But I wasn't trying emphasize the tire, just how to be smart while driving.

All that learning comes from growing up by the 2nd snowiest city in the US (excluding Alaska) where we actually get more than they do. For those on the East Coast, if you think Buffalo and Syracuse are snowy, Syracuse comes in at #4 and Buffalo at #11.

Good job making it there safely!! (I normally replace my tires at 4/32 and they are normally the rears with better on the front).

Thanks. The recommended tread depth to change at with snow is 6/32, which I thought was what I had at the beginning of the month when I was in for service. Come to find out I really had 2/32. That definitely went into the customer satisfaction survey that comes in the mail.

I don't know how you did it... I can barely make it up the small hill past my house if there is any snow... and I have at least 8/32 tread left on Bridgestone turenza's I think... They are all seasons.

I think the real problem in the winter is the dead stop.... I had to crawl up a hill doing 1mph with traffic backing up behind me. I think with the momentum of 50mph, your car is stable, safe, and well balanced.

Oh believe me, I had issues with city driving as well before storing the G. There was a day where it took me 40 minutes to get out of a parking lot because it was on a steep hill. There was also another day that I got stuck in an intersection after getting 8" due to the crud (had to back up and turn right instead of left was how I got out). There was also a time when I was following someone going really slow in bad conditions and there was a long hill coming up and I figured there was no way I was going to be able to make it up behind this guy since he wasn't going fast enough, so I had to turn off and find my way through a residential area. But at my parents house where the G is hibernating, the driveway and the road are all up hill where cars have been known to get stuck after a storm. When I went to wash it before leaving, that day we had about 6" and the guy who plows the road hadn't come yet (for a about 100 feet, I was the plow), but I made it up just fine surprisingly.

[tollboothwilley]

Smart driving is key...but a good set of winter tires can make a bad driver capable. Snow tires really can make a big difference...

[zozoka1212]

Hey good to see you guys can drive too. Sometimes I see people doing stupid things and just would love to go there and . Agree on everything said here.

John you think it is true to make a bad driver good with winter tires? I do agree it does make a huge different but still some people just can't do it.

Check this out. LOL I picked my son up from school just before xmas brake when we had a load of snow. To be honest I usually go there early and LMAO how people try parking and other regular stuff. This time my son class had a show for the parents so I went in and when I was comming out from the school (walking in a 8 inch snow with running shoes on). You can imagine the speed I was 1 mph maybe. Well there was a lady in a VW with winter tires. She had the rpm around red line and first gear as she entered in the parking lot and that's how she went out all the way. Anyway I was walking faster than she drive I got in the car got my camcorder out turned it on and started to taping her and she was still far from my car. LOL check the video. LMAO She redlined the VW all the way. It was about 10 minutes for her to get in and out. She stopped a few times and instead of start rolling slowly to gain some traction she floored it.

This is with snow tires.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v..._page

She has no idea how to drive in snow. Funniest part the other car and the van behind her had all season and they had no problem to roll and their cars were maybe at 1k rpm. They stopped behind here and go again no problem.

zozo

[tollboothwilley]

ZoZo

I didn't say you can make a bad driver good...I said you can make them capable. The tires can seriously reduce sliding, but you will never be able to make a bad driver good....haha

[zozoka1212]

LOL I knoe just messing with you. But man you should of see even the guy in the xar beside me were LHAO.

I think in the spring time she'll need a new transmission a new engine and she can throw out the winter set.

zozo

[pits200]

No offense, but after that long article only one thing came to my mind.

STUPID.

Nothing, I mean nothing can account for overly worn tires.

Acting like there is a science to eliminating/reducing slipping/sliding in snow and then applying this logic to a light rear ended RWD car like the G with close to bald tires.

Do you forget about the other drivers on the road who might do the following.

A.) Cut you off without paying attention causing you to brake rapidly with crappy tires.

B.) They themselves can lose control causing you to need to make a reaction that your car is not capable of doing.

Honestly, if you were involved in an accident with me by driving your car the way it was, I would get out, look at your car and see your bald tires and proceed to ***** slap you till you apologized.

Not only were you putting your life at risk, you were risking all the other people's on the road also.

Just because you might be drunk and can drive home fine that night. It doesn't mean it's a perfectly fine idea because nothing happened the one time.

[ldstang50]

^ Yes, that's true about the AS tires and summer tires, but the majority of vehicles on the roads today have AS tires. However, 2/32 tread is the legal minimum and not safe at all, especially in snowy conditions. In these types of conditions and that amount of tread, you're essentially running with a bald tire. But I wasn't trying emphasize the tire, just how to be smart while driving.

I completely agree with you. 2/32 is not safe, but with someone who knows how to pay attention and not be stupid (such as yourself), you are clearly a better driver than most people with SUVs and/or better tires

No offense, but after that long article only one thing came to my mind.

STUPID.

Nothing, I mean nothing can account for overly worn tires.

Acting like there is a science to eliminating/reducing slipping/sliding in snow and then applying this logic to a light rear ended RWD car like the G with close to bald tires.Do you forget about the other drivers on the road who might do the following.

A.) Cut you off without paying attention causing you to brake rapidly with crappy tires.

B.) They themselves can lose control causing you to need to make a reaction that your car is not capable of doing.

Honestly, if you were involved in an accident with me by driving your car the way it was, I would get out, look at your car and see your bald tires and proceed to ***** slap you till you apologized.

Not only were you putting your life at risk, you were risking all the other people's on the road also.

Just because you might be drunk and can drive home fine that night. It doesn't mean it's a perfectly fine idea because nothing happened the one time.

So what you're saying is if you cut him off or made a sudden movement that caused him to crash into you, you'd slap the **** out of him because he had bad tires on when it was clearly you're fault that caused the accident?You sound like 75% of the American population who fails to take responsibility for their own actions.But if you're the one who cut him off or made a sudden movement, don't blame the crash on his tires when it was you who clearly made the bad decision. Had you not made the sudden change there would be no need for him to dodge you.


Modified by ldstang50 at 8:26 AM 1/2/2009

[zozoka1212]

So what you're saying is if you cut him off or made a sudden movement that caused him to crash into you, you'd slap the **** out of him because he had bad tires on when it was clearly you're fault that caused the accident?You sound like 75% of the American population who fails to take responsibility for their own actions.But if you're the one who cut him off or made a sudden movement, don't blame the crash on his tires when it was you who clearly made the bad decision. Had you not made the sudden change there would be no need for him to dodge you.

completely agree.

Beside the 2/32 is the ligal limit so can't even blame it on the tires.

It is kind of funny since you'll have less and less traction with your tires especially when you get to the 1/3 life and because I don't have a new set of tire is that my fault if I hit somebody when they cut me off? I don't think so. They have a ligal limit for a reason.

zozo

[telcoman]

Excellent write up and this is exactly why I have been driving a stick for over 40 years. Much safer and gives the driver much more control in bad weather.Leave a lot of space between vehicles when driving in snow and avoid using the brakes. Downshift & match engine speed to avoid any sudden jerks that can throw you into a skid.

I noticed a big difference in handling after I replaced my tires that had 3 & 5 /32 left last January.

I would replace your tires ASAP if I were you.

Telcoman

[pits200]

So what you're saying is if you cut him off or made a sudden movement that caused him to crash into you, you'd slap the **** out of him because he had bad tires on when it was clearly you're fault that caused the accident?You sound like 75% of the American population who fails to take responsibility for their own actions.But if you're the one who cut him off or made a sudden movement, don't blame the crash on his tires when it was you who clearly made the bad decision. Had you not made the sudden change there would be no need for him to dodge you.

Modified by ldstang50 at 8:26 AM 1/2/2009

Um, when in my post did I say it was me cutting him off. The principle of the matter is that regardless of his "snow driving skills" his car is not up to par for snow driving.

Second, why are you stereotyping americans with your pointless "75%" comment. So you feel he is being a responsible american by driving through the snowbelt in a car in the condition that it is.

So my final saying is this. His initial decision to drive was very irresponsible regardless of how much he attempted to control the variables.

[zozoka1212]

Um, when in my post did I say it was me cutting him off. The principle of the matter is that regardless of his "snow driving skills" his car is not up to par for snow driving.

Second, why are you stereotyping americans with your pointless "75%" comment. So you feel he is being a responsible american by driving through the snowbelt in a car in the condition that it is.

So my final saying is this. His initial decision to drive was very irresponsible regardless of how much he attempted to control the variables.

I think you missing the point. Smockey did nothing wrong. He had all season tires and the thread wear was within the ligal limit.

zozo

[smockers83]

No offense, but after that long article only one thing came to my mind.

STUPID.

Nothing, I mean nothing can account for overly worn tires.

Acting like there is a science to eliminating/reducing slipping/sliding in snow and then applying this logic to a light rear ended RWD car like the G with close to bald tires.

Do you forget about the other drivers on the road who might do the following.

A.) Cut you off without paying attention causing you to brake rapidly with crappy tires.

B.) They themselves can lose control causing you to need to make a reaction that your car is not capable of doing.

Honestly, if you were involved in an accident with me by driving your car the way it was, I would get out, look at your car and see your bald tires and proceed to ***** slap you till you apologized.

Not only were you putting your life at risk, you were risking all the other people's on the road also.

Just because you might be drunk and can drive home fine that night. It doesn't mean it's a perfectly fine idea because nothing happened the one time.

You, along with someone else in this thread, are emphasizing what I was not trying to emphasize. I was very well aware of the risk I was taking and drove accordingly which meant I drove safely and very smart. I guess I should have added another section in that you anticipate every move further down the road than one normally does (or even at all for a lot of drivers). I gave myself plenty of room behind all vehicles and did not approach speeds that would not allow me to stop safely. You make it sound like I drove through a blizzard. I have driven through two of those might I add, and not just to go into town, but across a state.

The point about mentioning the 2/32 is that if you're smart about the way you drive in adverse conditions, know the limits, and understand why a car can get out of control, is that you don't have to have these snow tires and people shouldn't be complaining about the handling of their G in the snow. They complain because they're stupid and don't know how to drive in snow, they use the same techniques they use for summer driving.

To be fair, if you ***** slapped me (something a chick would do) for my tires (which you wouldn't think to check) after you pulled out in front of me , I would pound you into the ground for being an idiot and claim self-defense.

I'm sure many have heard this saying when someone uses a computer and it doesn't work for that person, "Maybe it's the user." The same goes for driving a car.

Oh and for people that pull out in front of me in snowy conditions, I've successfully avoided those people, too. I found a car afterwards and left a nice note letting him know how lucky he was to have one of us knowing how to control a vehicle in the snow.

I would replace your tires ASAP if I were you.

Thanks, I will be when I bring her back out in the spring. Perhaps some nice new summer ones that I can drive on next winter in PA.

Um, when in my post did I say it was me cutting him off. The principle of the matter is that regardless of his "snow driving skills" his car is not up to par for snow driving.

Right here.

Honestly, if you were involved in an accident with me by driving your car the way it was, I would get out, look at your car and see your bald tires and proceed to ***** slap you till you apologized.

Second, why are you stereotyping americans with your pointless "75%" comment. So you feel he is being a responsible american by driving through the snowbelt in a car in the condition that it is.

My car is in great condition actually, just got out of the body shop after a mechanic backed it into another car...on dry pavement...coincidentally in your case, when I was trying to get new tires. Also, if my car coupled with my "skills" weren't up to par, I wouldn't have made it to my destination.

So my final saying is this. His initial decision to drive was very irresponsible regardless of how much he attempted to control the variables.

Irresponsible? No, not really. Irresponsible would have been to take my car out and drive like a lot of other people, stupidly and irresponsibly. A little risk involved? Sure, a little bit more than usual. Have you driven on a freeway after it has snowed? There's usually one lane that's plowed and if not, there's almost always a couple of lanes that are like two-tracks. You don't even know what the road conditions were like, so please, just stop.

No one can control the variables of weather. It's almost like a math equation. If you have a variable that's getting in the way of the real answer, change the formula to account for the problematic variables, in this case, the weather. I have a feeling I would be laughing at you as I passed you in the snow bank.
Modified by smockers83 at 2:55 AM 1/4/2009

[smockers83]

I also mentioned that 6/32 is the recommended depth to change at for snowy conditions. I was aware of that fact before I left. Also, the dealership was so kind to tell me that I had 6/32 left in the beginning of December when in fact I had 2/32, which I also already mentioned. I could have been an ignorant, unsafe driver and not checked before I left. That would have been irresponsible.

[telcoman]

I also mentioned that 6/32 is the recommended depth to change at for snowy conditions. I was aware of that fact before I left. Also, the dealership was so kind to tell me that I had 6/32 left in the beginning of December when in fact I had 2/32, which I also already mentioned. I could have been an ignorant, unsafe driver and not checked before I left. That would have been irresponsible.

The other problem with 2/32 left on tires is that when rolling there is not enough of a groove to push water away and it is very easy to hydroplane suddenly when you least expect it. Tires on a G are expensive but an accident is much more so.

Telcoman

[pfarmer]

I also mentioned that 6/32 is the recommended depth to change at for snowy conditions. I was aware of that fact before I left. Also, the dealership was so kind to tell me that I had 6/32 left in the beginning of December when in fact I had 2/32, which I also already mentioned. I could have been an ignorant, unsafe driver and not checked before I left. That would have been irresponsible.

The problem I had when reading this is that you were aware of the tread depth and then drove from what you stated as a little too fast at times based on the condition of the road and you tread depth.

So if I was in front of you and then did something stupid and you crashed into me, then yes I would state that while my crash may be my fault, your crash into me is your fault.

Maybe I read your post incorrectly but that is what i felt I read at the time. This brings up in my mind the problem of following distance in these type of conditions. I have an AWD. I don't like the tires however I was one of the few in my neighborhood to easily go up the hill in front of my house. The tires are essentially new (about 7 k miles), just not what I consider good tires for these type of conditions. I drove all the highways in all of the conditions and on occasion I could feel that the tires were at their limit and would back off. Problem is the turkeys following me in less capable rigs with tires that probably were in at least the same catagory as mine follow way too close. Too close is where the guy in front of you looses control and you can't avoid him.

I had many follow me at car lengths of 1 or 2. From a practicle point of view what occurs if I do find a hill that I am having a problem with if you follow too close. First a good chance you will fail in your attempt to make it up the hill yourself. Second if I loose it, you just may smack into me. To me there are too keys to follow. One is what you mentioned, stay rolling. Two make sure you have plenty of room to maneuver if the the one in front of you starts to have difficulty.

Perry

[smockers83]

The problem I had when reading this is that you were aware of the tread depth and then drove from what you stated as a little too fast at times based on the condition of the road and you tread depth.

I did say that but it was left to be interpreted in a couple of ways. One was that it would be above the comfort zone of many drivers. The other was that if conditions suddenly changed and I felt myself closer to the limit, I backed off. When one is truly over the limit is when one loses control. I was not out there with reckless abandon. The trip under good conditions takes about 7 hours, the trip that night took me 10. Over the 450 miles, that's an average speed of 45 MPH.

[EZcheese15]

First of all, great tips for driving in snow...I hope lots of people read them.

Now, to just share something about a recent experience in my G. Now, although I'm from GA, I'm completely aware of how to drive safely in snow. I went to college in MN, was born in MI, my dad lives in MI, and I travel...a lot.

So anyway, for Christmas I was driving up to my Dad's house in Traverse City, MI (for those of you who don't know where this is, it's about 4 hours north of Detroit, on Lake Michigan). Traverse has notoriously bad lake effect snow. Anyway, I was on I-75, about 2 hours north of Detroit, and yes, I put my car in the ditch.

So just a few tips if you do happen to loose control of the car:Let the car do what it's going to do. Don't go slamming on the brakes, hitting the gas, or rapidly turning the steering wheel all over the place. Naturally, attempt to counter-steer, but if that's not saving it, forget it, embrace it, and let what happens happen. It's the safest thing to do. So many people zigzag across the road, get all crooked, flip vehicles, etc, when they start to loose control. I let my nose dig into the snow bank on the right of the interstate, and it pretty gently caught my car and spun me around and dug the rear-end into the snow bank. No big deal, no damage, nobody hurt. Just needed a tow out of the snow bank.

And despite what some people say, a very safe and cautious driver can still do everything correct and still loose it in horrible icy blizzard conditions. A G with summer tires simply doesn't do very well in these conditions, no matter how good you are.

Another thing that annoys me is people who drive with inconsistent speeds. This is very hazardous for people behind you, especially if the guy behind you is in a RWD sports car with summer tires and its snowing heavily. I was behind this Dodge Caravan on MI-72 for about an hour. This person was riding the brakes going down every hill. This is dangerous. Let off the gas and coast. No need to slow down more than that. It increases the chances of loosing control because you are varying the torque (as smocker said, reverse torque, since it's the brakes) on each wheel. Also, do not slow down and coast going up a hill. Maintain a constant speed if possible. By slowing down, you are loosing momentum, which means you will have to reapply the throttle going up the hill. This can also cause you to loose control easily. Especially if you have a minivan with snow tires and the person behind you is in a sports car with summer tires. You may have no problem applying power to make it up the hill, but if that sports car behind you has to apply power to the wheels, it will have a good chance of spinning.

Anyway, so if you can't tell, that's mostly a vent, but I tried to add in some notes to help people not be retards too

[smockers83]

I take it you were probably in Flint or near the Bay City/Midland area when you went in. Those were the two worst spots on my trip.

To go along with your tip on driving up a slippery hill, you don't necessarily want to maintain your speed all the time, but the engine speed is something you want to maintain and control. If the hill is steep enough and the road is slippery enough, trying to maintain your speed may mean applying to much torque at the wheels.

[EZcheese15]

I take it you were probably in Flint or near the Bay City/Midland area when you went in. Those were the two worst spots on my trip.

To go along with your tip on driving up a slippery hill, you don't necessarily want to maintain your speed all the time, but the engine speed is something you want to maintain and control. If the hill is steep enough and the road is slippery enough, trying to maintain your speed may mean applying to much torque at the wheels.

Yeah, that's what I meant...engine speed. Sorry if I made it sound otherwise. Anyway, I was about 20 miles south of West Branch I think. Mile marker 199 actually is what road side assistance said they told the towing company.

[Beancooker]

Good post. I do what you describe, but I still feel better driving slow when it's snowy/icy.

[bentrod]

Good write-up! I've lived in every New England state except Maine and learned how to drive in the snow as a native Vermonter. As much as I would love to own a regular G35S, I know it's going to snow and the G35X is absolutely wonderful in any road conditions. This is my second one and they think they're friggin Hum Vee's. I feel confident regardless of what mother nature throws at us.

[ldstang50]

Um, when in my post did I say it was me cutting him off.

Do you forget about the other drivers on the road who might do the following.

A.) Cut you off without paying attention causing you to brake rapidly with crappy tires.

B.) They themselves can lose control causing you to need to make a reaction that your car is not capable of doing.

Honestly, if you were involved in an accident with me by driving your car the way it was, I would get out, look at your car and see your bald tires and proceed to ***** slap you till you apologized.

Not only were you putting your life at risk, you were risking all the other people's on the road also.

How is he putting other people at risk when he is driving on LEGAL tires but YOU are the one cutting him off not paying attention???? You're the one who should be slapped.Please tell me, when are you LEGALLY allowed to change back into the lane after over taking someone?

The principle of the matter is that regardless of his "snow driving skills" his car is not up to par for snow driving.

Why because he's not AWD, on snow tires or on brand new tires?

Second, why are you stereotyping americans with your pointless "75%" comment. So you feel he is being a responsible american by driving through the snowbelt in a car in the condition that it is.

Why am I stereotyping? Its simple, YOU can not take responsibility for you own actions, just liked 75% of Americans. You made it very clear in your initial post on this thread. You expect everyone around you to make room for you, but yet when you are the one being wreckless and endangering other people, i.e. making sudden lane changes, its their fault because they were in the lane you wanted to be in right????You seem to be the type who will sue McDonalds because you burned yourself with a hot cup of tea even though the cup said caution, contents hot.


Modified by ldstang50 at 9:32 AM 1/6/2009

[smockers83]

I would also venture to say that he would be one to drive at the speed limit or slower in the left lane and get mad at someone passing him in the right lane.

[ldstang50]

Good post. I do what you describe, but I still feel better driving slow when it's snowy/icy.

There's nothing wrong with driving slow in when its snow or icy, I know I drive slow. But its the people that drive obscenely slow and make sudden movements i.e. jabbing the brakes, quick steering inputs, etc. that are the problem. And most of them happen to be people with SUVs who think they're invincible just because they have an SUV and AWD

[smockers83]

Bump.

Tis the season.

Drive safely.