prototype engine?

Post by **fellow240** » Fri Jan 31, 2003 7:21 pm

OK. some one i know has a 91 240 hatch and got it dyno'd. he said he got 320 hp at the wheels. OK i know that he as done 2 things to his car, tuned it a little bit and cut a hole in the cat. its not a turbo and there is no name on the head. he only calls it a prototype engine. does any one know what the F the engine is???? thanks

Post by **zeardux** » Fri Jan 31, 2003 7:21 pm

get a pic of the engine and i could find out for ya

Post by **95_240sx** » Fri Jan 31, 2003 7:21 pm

Yeah, umm theres not a way he is making 320hp w/o turbo, w/o SC, and w/o nitrous and have it be a daily driver, unless he's got some absolutely insane frickin compression and some magical head. I dont think its possible.

Rick

Post by **lessthanjakejohn** » Fri Jan 31, 2003 7:21 pm

Ya I think it would be impossible. But hey he might be running nitro methane

Post by **Scott McLellan** » Fri Jan 31, 2003 7:21 pm

I've heard of a camshaftless engine that makes a ton of power. Might be considered prototype. Costs like $15,000. If I remember right a 4.6 Lincoln V8 engine made some huge amount of hp at 14,000 rpm's or something. Check it out I forget.

http://www.coatesengine.com/index1.html

Post by **Aries** » Fri Jan 31, 2003 7:21 pm

so this guy is making close to the same power as me on a 4 banger N/A?

I call BS...There is just no way.

Post by **raging panda** » Fri Jan 31, 2003 7:21 pm

Well, it is possible i'm sure, just he would have had to dump sooooooo much money into the engine it would be like building a race engine. Everything would have to be like custom.

Post by **Bryce** » Fri Jan 31, 2003 7:21 pm

who said it had a 4 banger?? prototype could be a swapstill seems unlikely thoughb

Post by **crashjust4kix** » Fri Jan 31, 2003 7:21 pm

omg, I can't believe coates is still around. there was an article in car craft in 92, I think. something about spericar rotary valves. it looked awesome, and the article also mentioned huge power gains. he was trying to make them for the old standby ford and chevy v8's. i'm new to this 240 stuff, but I can only imagine how great it would be to talk hin into building heads for our cars, since the design would prob help out almost any engine. ('cept kias, nothing can help them)

Post by **Sxse240** » Fri Jan 31, 2003 7:21 pm

You simply dont know enough about the enigne for us to make a decision. I really doubt the Ka24de could make that kinda power with out massive mods, and THEN a bottle. Or Like Panda said it might be possible if you were insane and made it into a stage 3 racing engine with compression ratios that = ferrari F-50's.

Post by **McAdam** » Fri Jan 31, 2003 7:21 pm

coates engines look like the ticket, pretty badass if you ask me. 320rwhp with this kind of set up on a 2.4L seems reasonable. I read another post on a bulletin board from a guy that stopped in and chewed the fat with these guys, said they had a 351 ford that they put this spherical rotary vavle system on, no other mods other than intake, fuel and exhaust mods to support the 14000rpm redline, something about 935rwhp which is beleivable since power is a function of engine speed and torque. the ridiculiously high redline would be beleivable, seeing as how the valves are the limiting factor and you are removing a ton of reciprocating mass, and you dont ever have to worry about valves floating anymore. I just wonder how much.......

McAdam

Post by **The Bone** » Fri Jan 31, 2003 7:21 pm

i'm going to call this company tomorrow and see what the deal is. since i'm building for NA, i'll find out if i can get a retro fit for the ka24de. i'll keep you guys posted!!

Post by **Scott McLellan** » Fri Jan 31, 2003 7:21 pm

Yeah! Maybe we could get a group buy! It would be pretty sweet taking 1st gear up to like 75 mph or something. Those stupid Vtec honda's wouldn't know what hit em....

What's good about those engines is they can run a high compression ratio and run the lowest octane fuel (cheap).

Post by **sil80drifter** » Fri Jan 31, 2003 7:21 pm

Umm...ur crank would go dysfunctional, a.d.d. and hysterical after 7500rpms, fly out of the block, hit you on the head 5 times and then go to crankshatf heaven. And the compression ratio of 18:1 would take ur pistons/rods and the whole bottom end with it. How do you want to do 14k rpm on a KA again? The valves are not the only limiting factor.

sil80

Post by **keepingthe240** » Fri Jan 31, 2003 7:21 pm

This has no bearing on the 240 ,but............... There was a guy that designed a crank for the vw that doubles the h.p with just the crank alone. He has a patent on the design before he died,in the 1970's. His family has the patent now. An ex coworker of mine had 3 of them,sold them for $5k each. The crank truely is where the power is!!!!

Post by **piratepete** » Fri Jan 31, 2003 7:21 pm

Can someone explain or give a link to a website about rotary valves. I understand how they work, but would like some pictures and diagrams.

Post by **nlzmo400r** » Fri Jan 31, 2003 7:21 pm

:bsflag , i htink ur friend is lying, i wanna see dyno sheets (no offense tho man)

Post by **Scott McLellan** » Fri Jan 31, 2003 7:21 pm

At Coates Engineering there are many pics. They had a Lincoln V8 that had the stock crank and I think aftermarket rods and pistons that they spun to 14,000 rpms with no problems. Might of even been stock rods, I can't remember. The KA's crank is a very strong forged piece that definately wouldn't be the weekest link as long as the rotating assembly was balanced properly. Seems like the rods and pistons would be the most stressed, but I don't know. With some ARP fasteners maybe and stronger, lighter aftermarket rods and some forged pistons, I'm sure this could work. I am sure the engine would need to be precision built with every tolerance checked. Definately wouldn't be a weekend bolt-on. I am no engineer, though, and am trusting what Coates Eng. claims. The things I would wonder about would be the clutch/flywheel stuff. What kind of rmp's can these things take before they decide to fall apart? Also, those transmission gears would be spinning at least twice as fast as they are used to going and the oiling system might need to be rethought. Also the engine oiling system would most likely need a windage tray or something. With the crank turning that fast, it would surely blow the oil wherever it wanted. Another system that would need to be addressed would be the ignition. There are setups out there that can handle those rpm's. Then there would be the option of just keeping the rpm's down with a rev limiter or something for safety and enjoy the added power simply from reduced rotating mass and less moving, friction creating parts and keep the stock stuff. I wonder what one of those engines sounds like....

Post by **ralphyboy** » Fri Jan 31, 2003 7:21 pm

Popular Hot Rodding did an article in 99( saw it at the site) the engine that spin fast have been built up. but even at the same rpm there were much higher hp figures because of astronomical airflow. Just thought I'd point that out. The article is at http://www.coatesengine.com/lookmom_noCamshaft.htm I have e-mailed them I will tell you what they tell me if they mail me back.

Post by **Scott McLellan** » Fri Jan 31, 2003 7:21 pm

I think the correct term is "volumetric efficiency". I haven't ever heard of astronomical airflow. Sounded cool though.

Post by **Emperor240** » Fri Jan 31, 2003 7:21 pm

i think he was just tryin to say astronomical as in like a large amount not an actual term lol

Post by **GELLIS2586** » Fri Jan 31, 2003 7:21 pm

I know a guy who is part owner of Panoz Racing School here at Texas Motor Speedway and he has a 240 non turbo no nitrous with 297 at the wheels. But it is his racecar and isn't streetable. But it has been chryo freezed blue printed balanced 5 angle valve job, crank, internals like 10:5:1 compression, some really high lift cams, titanium valve springs it has the works completely built race engine but its still less than this guy buy 23 but I think its possible to break 300 with the ka just not streetable. NASCAR engines are 358's with internals and a 4 barrel the only reason they are so fast is the cam its extremely wild and puts out like 700 hp. But hey its not streetable so who cares im sure most of us will call bs on this one because it costs alot to build an engine especially non turbo to those specs.

Post by **ralphyboy** » Fri Jan 31, 2003 7:21 pm

Emperor240 wrote:i think he was just tryin to say astronomical as in like a large amount not an actual term lol

thanks Emp, I decided not to bother but I appreciate the clarification. I still haven't heard anything from them they might not like us

I was tired and that was the only word that came to mind at the time.

Post by **ralphyboy** » Fri Jan 31, 2003 7:21 pm

Quote » your April 17th email reached us, and it is a pleasure to hear from you. The company’s plan to return to the automotive end of things is still a bit off. The auto program is currently on a "temporary hold". No product catalogs or pricing sheets have been assembled since all our efforts are being directed into a related but different application. Management changed the corporate mission in order to allocate all its resources to a project which mates the patented and protected CSRV system with an industrial engine line that operate on a variety of fuels. While we continue to believe in the efficacy of the OE and retrofitting vistas for vehicles, the time for us to return to these particular applications is still just over the horizon. We have not attempted to refit the Nissan 2.4 L four-cylinder engine so it will have to await "r & d" along with all other auto engines. About the only suggestion I can make is to periodically visit website http://www.coatesengine.com to watch for postings which will inform the public of changes in our product development schedule. Thank you for contacting the Coates organization.[/quote] I got this back from them the other day just in case you were wondering:(

Post by **lessthanjakejohn** » Fri Jan 31, 2003 7:21 pm

hmm, I guess they can make more money with industiral engines. WEll let them build up their cash pot, and invest it in a Nissan!

prototype engine?

prototype engine?

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