pros & cons of the Q45?

[The_Other]

i'm planning on buying a Q45 in January, but i was wondering what are the pros & cons to owning one? i've been doing some research this week and it really seems that the only con is the expense when something needs to be fixed....i'm just curious what you think.

btw, i'm looking at getting a 1995 Q45

[Chally]

I think you'll love it!

Only cons you'll get in the 95 one, is if someone hasn't serviced it.

I've got a 94 Q, & I only had to repair stuff that was normal service items, eg Brakes, Oil changes etc. + the upper link & Radius rod bushes on the suspension at the front, all of which wasn't too dear.

Good luck

[greg_atlanta]

Definitely more pros then cons for the '95 model... very reliable engine and transmission.

Your ownership experience largely depends on what has or has not been fixed previosly. Are you buying from dealer or individual?

It's entirely possible for a '95 Q with around 100K miles to have had little or no work done other than routine fluid changes. If that's the case, you could spend $4-5K in the first year fixing things. But it'll still be better than 95% of new cars on the road today.

We really need more info to give a good recommendation. Yes, it's more expensive than a Honda or Toyota, but a lot cheaper to maintain than a Lexus, MB, BMW, Audi, etc.

What cars have you had before?

[911/Q45]

It's a little tough to get someone that knows what they're doing to do the work. Even the dealers haven't seen too much of these cars, as they are so reliable. They aren't that hard to work on, but experience is a plus so they won't mess up your fine auto.

[greg_atlanta]

I noticed that Royse City is close to Dallas, so there should be plenty of options for dealer or independent service.

A Q45 can be a miserable experience if you live outside a major metro area -- or even a medium-sized city with only one dealer.

[The_Other]

Definitely more pros then cons for the '95 model... very reliable engine and transmission.

Your ownership experience largely depends on what has or has not been fixed previosly. Are you buying from dealer or individual?

It's entirely possible for a '95 Q with around 100K miles to have had little or no work done other than routine fluid changes. If that's the case, you could spend $4-5K in the first year fixing things. But it'll still be better than 95% of new cars on the road today.

We really need more info to give a good recommendation. Yes, it's more expensive than a Honda or Toyota, but a lot cheaper to maintain than a Lexus, MB, BMW, Audi, etc.

What cars have you had before?

i'll be buying from a used car dealer since i'll need to get it financed.

well, i have heard that the '95 is the best of the early years...so that's why i've been looking at them.

as far as cars that i've had before:

81 Ford Fairmont stationwagon78 Pontiac Grand Prix82 GMC Sierra89 Plymouth Sundance81 Ford F-15089 Pontiac Sunbird86 Chevy Camaro95 Chevy S-1091 Olds Silhouette86 Ford Thunderbird82 Chevy Camaro (x2)84 Pontiac 6000

so as you see, i've only ever owned domestics.....so this is a bit of a change for me.

[greg_atlanta]

Beware: you might not like American cars anymore after the Q45!

Most Q45 owners average around $2000-3000/yr in maintenance costs, so be sure that's in your budget. Tires & brakes wear out faster than other cars. But you don't have to fix everything at once.

Any older Q45 could probably use $5000+ of work to make it perfect, but it's foolish to spend a lot of money at once since it could all go down the drain should the car be totalled in accident.

[PalmerWMD]

Pro's:

PowerLooksinside,Looks oustidefit and finish,LESS maintenance costs than other hi end V8 sprots luxury sedans in same class (such as BMW 7 series, MB S class)

Cons:more maintenance expenses than "normal"cars.

Fred...

[The_Other]

Beware: you might not like American cars anymore after the Q45!

funny, kinda what i'm hoping for...i'm tired of changing cars every year

Quote »Most Q45 owners average around $2000-3000/yr in maintenance costs, so be sure that's in your budget. Tires & brakes wear out faster than other cars. But you don't have to fix everything at once.[/quote]believe me, everything won't get fixed at once, there's no way i could afford that.

Quote »Any older Q45 could probably use $5000+ of work to make it perfect, but it's foolish to spend a lot of money at once since it could all go down the drain should the car be totalled in accident. [/quote]

this is true, but i'm an auto enthusiast so i spend money on dumb stuff anyway. any car can be in an accident so you spend money to make it like you like it and enjoy it while you have it.

[PalmerWMD]

The car is simply the BEST used car value on the market!

The machine you get for what you pay foris just amazing.Everything is so well thought out, similar engines can only be had in late model MB BMW's for a multiple cost.

Fred...

[crubio]

you will fall in love with your car. your wife will be jealous. You will feel like king of the road. You will travel in high style. pamper your self, its good for you.

[maxnix]

Hate to rain on your parade, but I wouldn't buy any car for which you cannot pay cash and have some left over capital to correct the deferred maintenance and wear and tear items.

On a Q45, with 8 years of minimal (i.e. - all factory recommended) maintenance, a $3K cash reserve is minimal for repairs and maintenance. If you buy a 100K mile car and the transmission goes (probably never flushed/fluid exchaged), you're out your $3K, even if the radiator is still good (it won't be) and everything else is perfect (it won't be).

I can certainly understand wanting to own one of these cars before every one of them is used-up, but don't do it if you can't afford it. If you have to use the f word to purchase a vehicle, think very hard, especially if it is used. Even an extended warranty will cost $1500, if it is even offered, and will not cover wear and tear items. Good luck!

[The_Other]

well, isn't that nice......any used car is gonna cost in maintenence when you first get it, it's a fact of life. there is a reason it's on a used car lot. i understand all of this, and as you can see from my list...i've had my fair share of cars...most of which didn't last long because i didn't do any work to them.

i am looking at getting a car that cruises well and that me and my family can travel in. we use my wife's 97 Chrysler Cirrus for it now, but it's racking up the miles.

i have to finance the car because i just lost my previous one and haven't had time to save up $6000 - $7500, sorry bout that. not everyone has a stash to jump into when a new car is needed. i make more than enough to cover costs of repairs as they come up.

[fxjackso]

Other-

Parse these replies differently. We are trying to tell you that your 95 will more than likely need $2-4,000 of repairs the minute you drive it off the lot. Once you accomplish that, it will cost $2-3,000 a year to maintain in top shape. For that , you get a car that performs in the top 5% of everything on the road, regardless of age.

So, when considering the purchase, you may consider your total cash investment, some of which you say you will finance, over say a three year period, to be $16-18,000. That does not include interest. If that's not a number you are comfortable with, the Q will not make you happy. If it is, you are in for a treat.

Try a bank or credit union rather than getting financing from a dealer, it could save some costs. Good luck and we hope to see you around here.

[Repo Man]

Other-

Parse these replies differently. We are trying to tell you that your 95 will more than likely need $2-4,000 of repairs the minute you drive it off the lot. Once you accomplish that, it will cost $2-3,000 a year to maintain in top shape. For that , you get a car that performs in the top 5% of everything on the road, regardless of age.

So, when considering the purchase, you may consider your total cash investment, some of which you say you will finance, over say a three year period, to be $16-18,000. That does not include interest. If that's not a number you are comfortable with, the Q will not make you happy. If it is, you are in for a treat.

Try a bank or credit union rather than getting financing from a dealer, it could save some costs. Good luck and we hope to see you around here.

Ok, since I'm somewhat in the same boat I'll ask this: What if the car already has a new, Infiniti-dealer built engine, impeccable maintenance over it's 98,000 or so miles and many parts already replaced? Where would that leave me? I can see a possible transmission, but it is in good shape at the present.

It's got new tires and good brakes. What is the 2-3k per year?

[tkd_q45]

Life is short, get what makes you happy! A used Q will not break the bank.

Cons:

True you should have a few K in reserve. These cars can be expensive to fix. Look for matainence records!!! I wouldn't buy a Q that doesn't have good documentation of service.

Things that seem to go out:

Upper (suspension) links

Window regulators - haven't DIYed this but it sounds pretty basic

Fuel Injectors (try and swap all at once because you have to remove the plenum to replace ANY of them and plenum pull is labor intensive)

Pre 94 - chain tensioners (I'd recommend going with post 94 models because of this though the pre 93s are more of a drivers car)

Rotors - too small for such a heavy car and they do tend to warp/wear rather fast

Tires - at least for me - My Q goes through tires about every 15K - maybe someone could enlighten me on this?

PROS? if you haven't read this thread check it out

http://www.nissaninfiniticlub....=7054

Despite the problems a Q can have it is MUCH less problematic than a BMW or MBZ!!!!! I speak from experience! You can't beat a Q for value. I stupidly bought an MBZ cause I thought I wanted something different. If I could do it over I'd have bought a second Q!!!!!!!!!!!!

[DAEDALUS]

Part price ballpark figures:upper links $200rear suspension links $450struts $320O2 sensors $200suspension rubber $300under-plenum hoses $230injectors $140 eachspark plugs $100/setknock sensors $280rotors $200brake pads/hardware $160tires $600fuel pump $235alternator $225battery $70chain guides (90-93) $500 partswater pump $90radiator $400fan $100tranny $1800

Some labor ballparks:chain guides (90-93) $700 valve cover gaskets $500 4 strut assembly rebuilds $350Brakes $250tranny $1200

I could go on, of course. The_Other, fxjackso is right. We're NOT trying to dissuade you from buying a Q. They are great cars. We're glad we bought them and many of us would buy another if we had to. But most of us were more than a bit surprised at the upkeep and maintenance costs associated with ownership. Obviously, we think it's worth it, or we wouldn't be here. If you end up getting a Q, you will have a very knowledgeable and supportive club here to congratulate you on your purchase and to answer any questions you might have in the future.

[fxjackso]

Repo Man-

Keep quiet or some other member is going to scoop that one up from under you. It seems even nicer than my 1990 (as I bought it) and yes, it looks very well maintained, although you and I might have changed the oil by the calendar with so few miles put on it. Also, I see a big difference underneath from living in Ohio vs Houston. Nice that snow tires come with.

But good (? NAPA-no opinion here) brakes wear out by 25-30,000 miles, and so do the links, sway bar rubber, etc. You will use Nissan fuel/air/oil filters, flush the trans and radiator frequently, because you know you should. Rotors will warp, even drilled ones, under 10,000. Those almost new tires are too small for the size of the car, and will wear quickly, and 17" tires in the right size are not cheap. Put yourself down for the low end of maintenance, and hope the trans-probably replaced in the campaign for 1991's, holds up.

You are going to want JWT chips for the engine and trans, a rear sway bar, stainless brake lines, etc. so use the money you don't spend on repairs for them! I hope you buy that car, a NICO member should be driving it.

[Repo Man]

Repo Man-

Keep quiet or some other member is going to scoop that one up from under you. It seems even nicer than my 1990 (as I bought it) and yes, it looks very well maintained, although you and I might have changed the oil by the calendar with so few miles put on it. Also, I see a big difference underneath from living in Ohio vs Houston. Nice that snow tires come with.

But good (? NAPA-no opinion here) brakes wear out by 25-30,000 miles, and so do the links, sway bar rubber, etc. You will use Nissan fuel/air/oil filters, flush the trans and radiator frequently, because you know you should. Rotors will warp, even drilled ones, under 10,000. Those almost new tires are too small for the size of the car, and will wear quickly, and 17" tires in the right size are not cheap. Put yourself down for the low end of maintenance, and hope the trans-probably replaced in the campaign for 1991's, holds up.

You are going to want JWT chips for the engine and trans, a rear sway bar, stainless brake lines, etc. so use the money you don't spend on repairs for them! I hope you buy that car, a NICO member should be driving it.

Ah, everyone's forgotten about that car. As far as I know anyway. I'm going to look at it on Sunday. Cold_Zero is driving so that he can get some more break-in miles on his WRX. The underside of that car looks good for a Midwestern car.

What size tires? Tirerack recommends 225 50 17. That seems too small to me. I was thinking more like 245 50 17.

We'll see how it goes and if I just HAVE to have it. My 240 is pretty cheap to maintain, which is nice.

Thanks.

[The_Other]

Part price ballpark figures:upper links $200rear suspension links $450struts $320O2 sensors $200suspension rubber $300under-plenum hoses $230injectors $140 eachspark plugs $100/setknock sensors $280rotors $200brake pads/hardware $160tires $600fuel pump $235alternator $225battery $70chain guides (90-93) $500 partswater pump $90radiator $400fan $100tranny $1800

Some labor ballparks:chain guides (90-93) $700 valve cover gaskets $500 4 strut assembly rebuilds $350Brakes $250tranny $1200

I could go on, of course. The_Other, fxjackso is right. We're NOT trying to dissuade you from buying a Q. They are great cars. We're glad we bought them and many of us would buy another if we had to. But most of us were more than a bit surprised at the upkeep and maintenance costs associated with ownership. Obviously, we think it's worth it, or we wouldn't be here. If you end up getting a Q, you will have a very knowledgeable and supportive club here to congratulate you on your purchase and to answer any questions you might have in the future.

i understand that i'm not gonna be disuaded by most in this club...but i was responding to the post above mine stating that if i had to finance it, i shouldn't get it because you have to have so much in 'reserve' for 'off the lot' repairs.

i understand about used cars, lord knows i've had quite a few. i will do a lot of shopping around during the next month and i'm sure i'll run across one that's not been that neglected.

[landtodd]

a new, Infiniti-dealer built engine, impeccable maintenance over it's 98,000 or so miles

Mutually exclusive -- if it had "impeccable maintenance," it wouldn't need a "dealer-built engine" at less than 100,000 miles. No two ways about that! What happened?

The "dealer-built engine" is cause for concern, too. Almost no gen-1 Q45 is worth a complete rebuild, and few dealers have the ability or interest to do it right. Maybe they mean a "dealer-installed take-out motor?" Much more likely.

That said, you've got to roll the dice on something. Compared to that list of American cars, this sounds like a gamble I would take! Best of luck!

[Repo Man]

Mutually exclusive -- if it had "impeccable maintenance," it wouldn't need a "dealer-built engine" at less than 100,000 miles. No two ways about that! What happened?

The "dealer-built engine" is cause for concern, too. Almost no gen-1 Q45 is worth a complete rebuild, and few dealers have the ability or interest to do it right. Maybe they mean a "dealer-installed take-out motor?" Much more likely.

That said, you've got to roll the dice on something. Compared to that list of American cars, this sounds like a gamble I would take! Best of luck!

It was due to the chain guides that the engine went. The owner was unaware of the engineering flaw until it was too late. The website has the service record posted on it and the car was taken care of. The engine was built from a NuCore Q45 engine core. It was $450 for the core and the rebuild cost nearly $4500. Was this not the right way to do it?

[PalmerWMD]

repoman,

I would buy that car,many say they woudl prefer a low mile jap takeout over a rebuild.

But it does appear that everything possible was done.

Landtodd:

Like repo said, the engine going, doesn't mean the car wasn't well maintained,( those pesky guides, good thing the new design guides are in from 94 model year on onwards and the parts can be put in the older cars).

Fred...

[Repo Man]

repoman,

I would buy that car,many say they woudl prefer a low mile jap takeout over a rebuild.

But it does appear that everything possible was done.

Landtodd:

Like repo said, the engine going, doesn't mean the car wasn't well maintained,( those pesky guides, good thing the new design guides are in from 94 model year on onwards and the parts can be put in the older cars).

Fred...

So is that a takeout or a rebuild?

You still have to stay within fifty miles this weekend CPT Palmer?

[landtodd]

The engine was built from a NuCore Q45 engine core. It was $450 for the core and the rebuild cost nearly $4500. Was this not the right way to do it?

Hey, I said I'd buy the car . . . gotta roll the dice sometime.

Every now and again, someone comes along and says this chain-guide business is malarky. It's not. Your car was probably on the ragged edge of being scrapped once the guides went at less than 100,000 miles, due strictly to the expense of repairing it.

Confession of ignorance: I don't know anything about NuCor. I'm certain it runs. All I have to offer is the following:

Re: Q w/223k q45tech (53/M/Atlanta, GA) 6/22/01 7:53 pm

"Why rebuild since the two I know haven't been able to duplicate the factory precision. The best one took 85 hours at $70 plus parts= $9050 plus removal and reinstall it turned into a $12,000 job] When you start talking about 3 ten thousands of an inch fits most run away. We have found that it's less expensive to just find a good japanese take out engine [$2,600-$3,000] and swap $3,000.

Re: Harder to find 90-93 engines q45tech (52/M/Atlanta, GA) 1/30/01 8:01 am

". . . IF we could find someone to properly rebuild a Q motor with a 2 year warranty you could expect similar costs say around $11,500 plus tax....why most people opt for a $7000 used take out engine job with a 12/12k warranty . . .

Harder to find 90-93 engines q45tech (52/M/Atlanta, GA) 1/30/01 7:02 am

With all the owners trashing their engines due to poor oil habits, overheating, and chain guides, it is getting more and more difficult to find decent used takeout engines. From pristine 2 years ago to mostly junk now ....more than 50% were receive are returned due to problems now. Many sources are trying to palm off [or don't know any better] dirty used US engines as Japanese take outs. $3,000 can get a decent one but you must always check and change the chain guides with in/out labor and changing things [new hoses harnesses etc] it takes 3 days so the price will be approching $7000 for the job minimum. Please keep your engine clean and in tip top condition I hate to see people cry . . .

Re: What about Engine Oil FLUSH ? q45tech (53/M/Atlanta, GA) 11/21/01 9:00 am

We have only rebuilt 4 Q engines completely/totally from the block up, other than swapping new/used heads on a bad block or the converse, changed a few rods/pistons etc. Generally the [matched] parts availability is spotty and time consumming plus the time required makes it uneconomical vs paying $2500 for a take out [upon which you have to do $1500 to make it safe]....no way to get all the parts and spent 48-60 hours it would cost $7,000.....microfinishing the crank [new special bearings] or replacing it is $1500 alone.....then why rebuild if you don't replace the rods, springs, valves, seats, rings, pistons, pins etc then you have to hone the block. Obviously changing 25 engines doesn't make us an expert but pretty close at least on understanding what costs are.

[jimb]

IMHO, the biggest problem with the Q is the scarcity of people who can/will work on it.

You can count on having multiple hassles with repair labor and repair parts if you can't find an independent shop to handle repairs. Parts can be bought mail order from several fine forum supporters and these folks are truly 'no hassle' but just try to take them to your local dealer for installation. At a minimum you'll get the 'no warranty' routine and I can't say I blame them for that.

If you must use the local dealer you'll find everything seems to cost 50% more than you expect to pay. For example, my transmission failed at 73K, not uncommon. The dealer wanted $4500 for a remanned one with a one year warranty. Luckily, my local trans shop rebuilt mine with all new parts to include kevlar clutches, pumps, planetaries, solenoids etc. for $3000 and that included a fill with synthetic fluid. And he apologized for that price but said the parts were all way expensive.

If you're lucky, the Q is a great car and a pleasure to drive. Unlucky with broken sunroofs, bad rear suspension mounts, vibrating drive shafts, trans failures, ac failures: you could easily drop $10-15000 at the dealer in a year or so.

If you can buy it and be prepared to leave it at the junk yard if you get a lemon, go for it. If just a couple of those major failures will break your heart, then pass on the Q.

[PalmerWMD]

All this talk is making Q's sound like lemon mobiles and that's nonsense, cuz they are not.

They are still among the leats expensive V8 luxosports avalable.

Also the paint will last just about forever.They are remarkably rattle free even at hi milages.When they came out their tech was second to none and even now they compare favorably with new luxo-sports in the 50-70k range.

The only thing they miss compared to new cars in their class are knick-knacks like Nav systems and extra electronic assists.

Fred...

[greg_atlanta]

i have to finance the car because i just lost my previous one and haven't had time to save up $6000 - $7500, sorry bout that. not everyone has a stash to jump into when a new car is needed. i make more than enough to cover costs of repairs as they come up.

Nothing wrong with financing a used car purchase!! (provided the interest rate is reasonable)

Everyone manages their money differently. I've kept my Q on the road thanks to Amex, Visa, MC, etc. Now that the car's paid for the credit card bills are getting some more attention.

The nice thing about any Japanese car is that you can postpone repairs -- they take a beating!

Most of us on this site are perfectionists, but some (like me) have successfully balanced perfectionism with budget concerns.

[jimb]

Actually, the frequency of repair for the Q is probably about the same as with any luxo/sport sedan. But also, like any luxo/sedan, the cost of repairs is right up there and the complexity of repair is there, too.

I also have an older Corvette and I have to laugh when I hear people complain about the cost of repair parts. While more than an average car, still way less than a Merc, Q, Beemer or Lexus.

As q45 tech has correctly stated many times, one way or another, you pay more to drive a luxury car than an ordinary one. And unfortunately, the expense can be focussed in a string of very high repair bills.

[The_Other]

Nothing wrong with financing a used car purchase!! (provided the interest rate is reasonable)

Everyone manages their money differently. I've kept my Q on the road thanks to Amex, Visa, MC, etc. Now that the car's paid for the credit card bills are getting some more attention.

The nice thing about any Japanese car is that you can postpone repairs -- they take a beating!

Most of us on this site are perfectionists, but some (like me) have successfully balanced perfectionism with budget concerns.

well, i know way in advance that my interest rate is gonna suck. wether or not i go through the dealership or my credit union, my credit is less than perfect.

with all the speak of high cost repairs, i'm still not turned away from purchasing a Q.....it's time in my life for a luxury car and this is one that has my interest and doesn't seem to be losing it any time soon.