ProPilot Assist vs. Honda Sensing (AcuraWatch)

A General Discussion forum for cars and other topics, and a great place to introduce yourself if you are new to NICO!
datechboss101
Posts: 934
Joined: Sat Jan 14, 2017 12:01 pm
Car: 2016 Nissan Rogue SL -- RIP
2018 Nissan Kicks SR -- RIP
2019 Nissan Rogue SV w/ Prem. Pack
Location: Orlando, FL

Post

I need some understanding on how Nissan ProPilot assist works. I think I am just having way too high expectations for this system, since Acura Watch literally aides you will driving at the press of a button without having cruise control turned on, and it will flash the word BRAKE in bright orange and in huge bold capital letters, and also checks if the driver is alert.

Can any feature of the ProPilot assist work without having cruise control turned on? (other than Lane Keeping Assist)

I really am clueless on how this system works, because I barely drive the vehicle that this driver-assist feature is equipped on (mom's Rogue), and I do my best not to drive it after a close call incident where the FEB didn't recognize the vehicle in front and lack of feedback from the brakes.


User avatar
Bubba1
Moderator
Posts: 18355
Joined: Wed Oct 30, 2002 1:42 pm
Car: 2003 Nissan 350z
2008 Acura TSX
2008 Toyota Corolla S
2001 Toyota Avalon XLS

Post

Oi. If one is afraid to drive a car because of fear of the reliability of a driver assist system, then they are in dire need of training. If you fear it, and are confident in your driving skills, you can always do something crazy like not use it. Don't turn it on. Every manufacturer, including Nissan makes it very clear current driver assist systems are not self driving applications. That means you're not supposed to rely on them. Personally, I get annoyed by all idiot proofing car nannies and actively try to turn them all off.

As far as Nissan's pro-pilot, Nissan's front pointed brake system seems fairly simple and inexpensive compared to their competitors. while it seems to work okay under ordinary circumstances, it's not necessarily going to work perfectly in every situation, which is likely why the dealer gave you a hard time when you kvetched about it almost causing an accident. Had there been a crash, the actual fault lies more with the driver, not the nanny's inability to have prevented it. To answer your question, it's designed for cruise control situations (low traffic, mostly straight highways, fewer input situations where attention tends to lapse).

I think the steering assist part of pro-pilot is pretty clever, but it also has limitations. It's ideal on a clearly lined highway, uncrowded in good weather, not so good in NYC in the rain. I like the part that it requires a hand on the steering wheel in order to keep it functioning in order to help prevent idiots from trying to use it as a self driving function.

I've read that Tesla and Cadillac's driver assist systems are more sophisticated (pronounced pricey) and better than Nissan's version. But then again, they're upscale brands. Nissan actually offers it on a cheap model, that's pretty neat. Something to think about. I have not tried Tesla's or Caddy's versions either, and have zero desire to do so. I have not read much about Honda's system either, so I don't know if it's better or worse than pro-pilot, but at the end of the day it really should not matter that much.

My advice is to keep it in perspective that pro-pilot is an assist system, and nothing more. And fighting Nissan over its shortcomings in certain scenarios is probably not going to give you the win you seek.

Enjoy

datechboss101
Posts: 934
Joined: Sat Jan 14, 2017 12:01 pm
Car: 2016 Nissan Rogue SL -- RIP
2018 Nissan Kicks SR -- RIP
2019 Nissan Rogue SV w/ Prem. Pack
Location: Orlando, FL

Post

I do know that its an assist system, but for some reason, I still believe that some of the features should work without cruise control being on.

What I see it is just a waste of money if the vehicle barely goes on the highway at all (literally it does all city driving). Like, why did Nissan have to put a dedicated button for steering assist if it won't work without cruise control turned on. That's really bothering me, as it would be great if they just implimented it without a dedicated button.

As far as limitations go, its just that everything works under cruise control. I give double thumbs up for Nissan having a timer to alert the driver to be engaging with the vehicle before slamming on the brakes in the middle of the highway for no god dang reason and without noticing if there is any traffic surrounding the vehicle. That I believe needs to be worked on, as this is a serious issue, especially slamming the brakes in the middle of highway.

Having driven HondaSensing (its basically what AcuraWatch is), I like how it gives the driver the option to have the steering assist on while driving in city traffic, since almost everyone has to drive in city-type traffic.

Hopefully, Nissan fixes this issue, since what I believe, for people that expect for everything to work will not be happy if they want to use these features but do not exercise the use of cruise control. Heck, even my parents don't use cruise control, so this is basically a screw up, which I really hope Nissan addresses it.

I should have a review and comparison of these two systems coming up soon (after my 100k mile owners review of the 2nd gen Rogue).

User avatar
Bubba1
Moderator
Posts: 18355
Joined: Wed Oct 30, 2002 1:42 pm
Car: 2003 Nissan 350z
2008 Acura TSX
2008 Toyota Corolla S
2001 Toyota Avalon XLS

Post

Here is a simple Nissan video explanation of Pro-pilot for you and those unfamiliar with it. it's pretty clever for such a cheap early generation system. 1. You can complain all you want about it's city situation shortcomings. At the end of the day, Nissan made it very clear their intent of this version was a highway cruise control application, not city driving. If it's city driving shortcomings are that big a problem for you, you can either do as your parents and not engage it, or ask them to buy you a different car that has a more advanced system designed to handle city situations. 2. Pro-pilot has a simple radar, so what you see, the system sees. it does not have a GPS component that some fancier system have. If it makes corrections for "no reason", that's more likely a "nut-behind-the-wheel" problem than system failure, especially if you're using it for an application they specifically advised against using it for. You say you understand it's a driver ASSIST system, yet your posts seem to suggest you're expecting it to do more. I'm sure future versions will be significantly better, and come closer to the higher level of idiot-proofing you seek. This early version of Pro-pilot is simply not there... yet. I suggest you rethink escalating your complaints about it as you may not get the positive responses you seek.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wzAvYvgOmIw

Any one else want to chime in?

User avatar
RicerX
Moderator
Posts: 4013
Joined: Thu Jan 29, 2009 9:36 am
Car: '20 Titan Pro4X
Location: Southeastern US

Post

I've got nothing nice to add but I'm going to add it anyway.

Not everyone lives in a large city. In fact, half of America does not. That's a significant enough business case to make a vehicle that does things better for low traffic roads or interstates. But you don't care about that so I'll save you a dissertation on why people with their own money are buying these cars for the technology that's in them and liking it just fine.

NOTHING drives itself like you want it to - not even the Teslas. Nothing is going to be to your lofty misplaced standards for autonomy until cars are fully networked with each other and fully autonomous. You'd s#!t a goose if you had to drive my first car - it had crazy levers to roll down the windows (and it was quite a reach to roll down the rear passenger side window from the driver's seat). The only thing it did automatically was shift gears, and that was AFTER I put it in drive. You had to start it with a key. You had to lock and unlock doors with a key. It had a cassette deck! Watching you drive one of those would likely be like my Sunday experiences watching people at the self checkout in Wal-Mart.

I hear the bus is pretty autonomous these days. So is the subway.

User avatar
PapaSmurf2k3
Site Admin
Posts: 23998
Joined: Thu Nov 21, 2002 3:20 pm
Car: 2017 Corvette, 2018 Focus ST, 1993 240sx truck KA Turbo.
Location: Merrimack, NH

Post

I'd hate to say it, but I put myself in DaBoss' shoes the other day while watching a Nissan commercial during a football game. The way they market it, it really does sound like its supposed to protect you no matter what. They tout 360 degrees of monitoring and even show a big bubble/area around the car that it's inspecting. By that logic, it should catch cross-traffic issues.

Probably another case of marketing spinning something that Engineering never intended. Nissan has been pretty notorious for this. When you read the manual and when you bring it in for service/inspection after a near-miss, only then do you learn that the marketing isn't really the total truth.

User avatar
Bubba1
Moderator
Posts: 18355
Joined: Wed Oct 30, 2002 1:42 pm
Car: 2003 Nissan 350z
2008 Acura TSX
2008 Toyota Corolla S
2001 Toyota Avalon XLS

Post

Yes, I do agree that the Nissan mothership's marketing department has not always been truthful or accurate. Those are the same folks that unsuccessfully tried to call a fwd, cvt only, family sedan a "4 door sports car". That said, I would think only non-car people would take marketing claims at face value. I would hope if a car person is annoyed by a system not performing right, they'd consult the owner's manual before making a stink at a dealer. And if the owner's manual does say not recommended for city use, then wouldn't complaining to a dealer that it doesn't work well in city use seem off?

datechboss101
Posts: 934
Joined: Sat Jan 14, 2017 12:01 pm
Car: 2016 Nissan Rogue SL -- RIP
2018 Nissan Kicks SR -- RIP
2019 Nissan Rogue SV w/ Prem. Pack
Location: Orlando, FL

Post

PapaSmurf2k3 wrote:
Mon Oct 28, 2019 12:54 pm
I'd hate to say it, but I put myself in DaBoss' shoes the other day while watching a Nissan commercial during a football game. The way they market it, it really does sound like its supposed to protect you no matter what. They tout 360 degrees of monitoring and even show a big bubble/area around the car that it's inspecting. By that logic, it should catch cross-traffic issues.

Probably another case of marketing spinning something that Engineering never intended. Nissan has been pretty notorious for this. When you read the manual and when you bring it in for service/inspection after a near-miss, only then do you learn that the marketing isn't really the total truth.
This is what really threw me off. They advertised this in a city driving situation, which is bonkers. I really understand the whole highway driving intention, and trust me, if they advertised this using a highway, sure it wouldn't be an issue for me. I literally exercise using cruise control everytime I'm on I-95, I-75 and FL turnpike (this may cause my cruise control module to short out sooner and quicker).

The SA I usually take my 2016 Rogue to for service near home, he was surprised that the FEB failed when I was talking to him about how we are liking the new Rogue. And what I understand out of Nissan these nearly pass 4 years of owning 3 Nissan's is that Nissan does great in some categories, but miserably fails in others. Clearly ProPilot system is still in its baby stage and needs alot of improvement and their marketing sucked. Convinced me that this feature works regardless of hwy and city, but it proved wrong. Literally, this marketing scheme of Nissan literally convinced me to tell dad to buy the dang 2019 Rogue over the 2019 CR-V or 2019 Escape.
RicerX wrote:
Mon Oct 28, 2019 8:52 am
I've got nothing nice to add but I'm going to add it anyway.

Not everyone lives in a large city. In fact, half of America does not. That's a significant enough business case to make a vehicle that does things better for low traffic roads or interstates. But you don't care about that so I'll save you a dissertation on why people with their own money are buying these cars for the technology that's in them and liking it just fine.

NOTHING drives itself like you want it to - not even the Teslas. Nothing is going to be to your lofty misplaced standards for autonomy until cars are fully networked with each other and fully autonomous. You'd s#!t a goose if you had to drive my first car - it had crazy levers to roll down the windows (and it was quite a reach to roll down the rear passenger side window from the driver's seat). The only thing it did automatically was shift gears, and that was AFTER I put it in drive. You had to start it with a key. You had to lock and unlock doors with a key. It had a cassette deck! Watching you drive one of those would likely be like my Sunday experiences watching people at the self checkout in Wal-Mart.

I hear the bus is pretty autonomous these days. So is the subway.
Dude, I hope you've seen some of my posts where I mentioned we used to own a 1999 Honda Accord before we traded it in for the now scrapped 2018 Nissan Kicks and a 2005 Honda Odyssey before we traded it in for my 2016 Rogue. The Accord had the cassette deck (still works), a single-disc CD player, AM/FM, a freaking clock that can be removed, no screens, no cameras, and mostly no god dang tech (until 2017 when I upgraded the front two speakers and the head unit to have bluetooth and USB compatibility). The Odyssey is very roomy and barely had issues other than the fuel tank recall and few others (we put 151k miles on it in 10 years).

We live on a road which now has a total of roughly 20 signal lights (give or take 5 lights), so its alot of stop and go driving within 5 miles. Most of the route my mom takes consists of signal lights since its considered as "city" driving.

I have given up on these technologies in vehicles already. I want the good old times, where a vehicle wasn't beeping at you for not staying in a lane or beeping at you for a blind spot or just plain out beeps for every small thing imagined. Like give me a break, I don't need to be reminded every single time (good ol' mirrors and using common sense works much better than technology). Also, I stopped driving the new Rogue ever since the incident where it failed (the SA that works near my home dealer was surprised that the FEB failed and was shocked that Nissan of Tampa and NissanUSA said it was "working properly"), and only time I have to drive it is when I have to move it from blocking my Rogue and parking it on the street, because its literally a waste of money and garbage (yeah I might sound spoiled, but I still believe due to Nissan's crappy marketing my dad overpaid for the vehicle). It's literally unreliable and hazardous for the entire family to be in, which makes my 100k mile 2016 Rogue to still be considered as the family vehicle, not the new Rogue. (My brother and father still prefers my Rogue over my moms).

Speaking of, my next vehicle might be a 90s Japanese crapbox (we talking importing a Silvia or Skyline GTR) or brand new money-pit euro crap box or a new Honda/Mazda. Won't be selling my 2016 because I single-handedly diminished the value of it. But I am actually looking into the driver assistance features of all brands I'm interested in, because Nissan's ProPilot assist didn't live up to its name, I want to double check the technology before I make my final decision. Maybe, I might get another Nissan IF they improve the ProPilot system and removed that horrid CVT w/ V6 engine combination. It's not a freaking sports car when you put an economy tuned transmission paired to a 300 crank horsepower 3.5L NA V6.

User avatar
PapaSmurf2k3
Site Admin
Posts: 23998
Joined: Thu Nov 21, 2002 3:20 pm
Car: 2017 Corvette, 2018 Focus ST, 1993 240sx truck KA Turbo.
Location: Merrimack, NH

Post

So because the system failed to protect you in a situation where you feel it should have intervened, you opt to drive cars that don't have the system all together, thus ensuring zero protection? I don't quite follow that logic.

User avatar
Bubba1
Moderator
Posts: 18355
Joined: Wed Oct 30, 2002 1:42 pm
Car: 2003 Nissan 350z
2008 Acura TSX
2008 Toyota Corolla S
2001 Toyota Avalon XLS

Post

:yesnod ^ Perhaps a dumb question, but since I do not have a Rogue or its owners manual, can one use the Rogue's cruise control without engaging pro-pilot assist?


Return to “General Chat”