Proof of Obama's Moral High Ground over Dirty Washington Politics

[Soravia]

http://www.factcheck.org/elect....html

Quote »SummaryAds from the AFL-CIO and the Obama campaign claim that McCain is partly to blame for the loss of more than 8,000 jobs in Ohio. They paint a false picture.

There's at least some truth in both ads: German-based DHL announced a deal that could result in 8,200 lost jobs in Wilmington, Ohio. And McCain did in fact oppose an amendment that would have kept DHL from buying Wilmington-based Airborne Express. McCain's campaign manager, Rick Davis, was also a DHL lobbyist charged with easing the merger through the Senate.

But the ads go too far. Some statements about McCain are misleading and some of the inferences the ads invite are unsubstantiated:

The ads charge that McCain opposition to a 2003 amendment helped DHL and amounted to turning his back on workers. That's misleading. McCain said he opposed a version of the amendment because it was a special project inserted into an unrelated bill, not to help DHL. And the Teamsters union praised the merger at the time, saying that it would lead to more jobs. And at first, more jobs indeed followed.

The ads also imply that the DHL merger is a direct cause of the job losses in Ohio, which we find to be both unlikely and unsubstantiated. Airborne Express had laid off 2,000 employees before the merger, and analysts at the time said that the struggling carrier would need to make expensive investments in its international infrastructure to remain competitive. [/quote]Awesome high moral politics.

[skylndrftr]

Why is it that Obama runs like a single negative ad and its like hes the devil himself? None of the McCain supporters seem to be hitting McCain for the same conduct (and much worse). They offer no positive commentary on much of his plans and offer lies about Obama's.

Why is it okay to flat out lie about Obama? I'll answer that...because McCain has nothing to offer and many people can't bring themselves to vote for a democrat.

[Soravia]

I support mostly dems. The issue with Obama is 'Hypocrisy'. How will you take his words when he is not what he says. Rev. Wright, Gas-Tax Holiday, Health Insurance, Oil Drilling, etc.I have seen his integrity all the way since he threw his grandmother under the bus to save his political career.All he needed to say was 'I'm sorry, I never support anything like this racist pastor and racist church. I quit the church.' Just a little apology and everyone would have forgive and forget.

[skylndrftr]

so McCain should apologize for his preachers actions as well? Or for voting against the troops that he now supports? Or for voting against bills he introduced for political reasons? I mean seriously, McCain has been everything Obama is being called and worse for 20 years.

[AZhitman]

Why is it okay to flat out lie about Obama?

We're actually doing him a favor - the TRUTH is much more damning.

[AZhitman]

so McCain should apologize for his preachers actions as well?

Or for voting against the troops that he now supports?

Or for voting against bills he introduced for political reasons?

I mean seriously, McCain has been everything Obama is being called and worse for 20 years.

What'd his preacher do? Did he call this country the "U.S. of KKK A."? Screw that bigoted piece of crap and his pathetic NON-CHRISTIAN church.

Voted against troops? How does one "vote against troops"?

Aren't most bills introduced for political reasons? Hello?

He is? He associates with known terrorists and lies about it? Tells people he speaks a language he never learned? Says he'll make decisions about warfare, not his generals? Apologized for the actions of America in GERMANY?

No, my friend. He's not "everything Obama is being called".

And he's certainly not out making claims that he can't deliver on (promising to "fix" everything from health care to the economy). What a deluded fool BO is.

[rn79870]

What'd his preacher do? Did he call this country the "U.S. of KKK A."? Screw that bigoted piece of crap and his pathetic NON-CHRISTIAN church.

Whoops, What position is his preacher running for?

Aren't most bills introduced for political reasons? Hello?

Political gain was the intended thrust of sky's point. IE, introducing a bill he doesn't expect to pass merely to appease the public. A dirty trick that is perfected in 20+ years of political service. The placating bone.

And he's certainly not out making claims that he can't deliver on (promising to "fix" everything from health care to the economy). What a deluded fool BO is.

You know, I never criticize a man for trying, even if he's dreaming. As far as I'm concerned, the only thing worse than failing is not trying at all.

[Soravia]

So it is OK for politicans to attend to Nazi events and meetings held by Nazi leaders?

I mean the politicians themselves are not up on the stage of the Nazi party events, they're just attending the meetings for like 20 years so that should be fine right?

[Soravia]

Political gain was the intended thrust of sky's point. IE, introducing a bill he doesn't expect to pass merely to appease the public. A dirty trick that is perfected in 20+ years of political service. The placating bone.

You know, I never criticize a man for trying, even if he's dreaming. As far as I'm concerned, the only thing worse than failing is not trying at all.

You just contradicted yourself.

[rn79870]

So it is OK for politicans to attend to Nazi events and meetings held by Nazi leaders?

I mean the politicians themselves are not up on the stage of the Nazi party events, they're just attending the meetings for like 20 years so that should be fine right?

The only reference I've seen to Obama and the Nazi party has to do with an endorsement that he rejected. Why not put more effort into disclosing your source so they don't have the appearance of misguided dreams.

[rn79870]

You just contradicted yourself.

Hardly, I've never criticize him for trying, I merely criticize his motives. But, that part of the reason I'm not voting for McCain - the honesty just isn't there.

[Soravia]

Your lack of comprehension concerning hypothetical situations in parallel to actual facts is quite obvious.

The fact that Obama (and his wife) had a 20 years long relationship with Rev. Wright and the racist church (as exposed by the other pastor) makes him guilty by association. Doesn't it sound really harsh? At least for liberals who worship Obama, right?

Well put that same relationship with a Nazi party. How does it sound now? Not so pretty right?

So how is it that Obama can go to a racist church and have a spiritual relationship with a racist pastor for 20 years without having any blame on him, IF NO ONE can do the same with the Nazi party or the Al Qaeda without being blamed for it?

That's because Obama is the Messiah and he simple cannot have any fault?

If Obama can make any promise to make the world a better place and have credit for trying. I can do the same too, so can Hillary and everyone else.Why is it that he gets to be 'Oh, he's just trying his best to pass this impossible law.' and others 'They are just making political tactics on bills that won't pass.'??

You're pretty much a good example of Obama fans. I saw the CNN Political Ticker post about Obama lying in attack on McCain using DHL stuff. The post already mention how the accusation were false, but the Obama fans were like 'This is a great ad…glad to see that the Dems are growing up and realizing that the Repugs will never "play nice!' or 'This is not nasty enough! - more are coming!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!.'http://politicalticker.blogs.c...osses/

Sometimes, they make you wonder if they are 'mindless fans' just like Obama said.

[rn79870]

Your lack of comprehension concerning hypothetical situations in parallel to actual facts is quite obvious.

The fact that Obama (and his wife) had a 20 years long relationship with Rev. Wright and the racist church (as exposed by the other pastor) makes him guilty by association. Doesn't it sound really harsh? At least for liberals who worship Obama, right?

Oh, right. Guilt by association. That's what, medieval in origin? But nice try.

Well put that same relationship with a Nazi party. How does it sound now? Not so pretty right?

So I ask for a cite and you apparently have none. We'll give that statement all the attention it deserves.

So how is it that Obama can go to a racist church and have a spiritual relationship with a racist pastor for 20 years without having any blame on him, IF NO ONE can do the same with the Nazi party or the Al Qaeda without being blamed for it?

Maybe he didn't subscribe to everything the good Reverend said. Apparently he didn't, as he critized the man for his comments.

That's because Obama is the Messiah and he simple cannot have any fault?

Who said that? Again, you're stating facts that have no basis in reality. I'd ask for a cite but all I'd get is another of your opinions.

If Obama can make any promise to make the world a better place and have credit for trying. I can do the same too, so can Hillary and everyone else.Why is it that he gets to be 'Oh, he's just trying his best to pass this impossible law.' and others 'They are just making political tactics on bills that won't pass.'??

You complained about Obama's plan. I commented that at least he has a plan and he is sincere in wanting a better world. McCain hasn't asked his handlers what he's suppose to say in this regard so we'll wait for his response.

You're pretty much a good example of Obama fans. I saw the CNN Political Ticker post about Obama lying in attack on McCain using DHL stuff. The post already mention how the accusation were false, but the Obama fans were like 'This is a great ad…glad to see that the Dems are growing up and realizing that the Repugs will never "play nice!' or 'This is not nasty enough! - more are coming!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!.'http://politicalticker.blogs.c...osses/

If you research that cite, you'll see that McCain's vote was against the wor

Sometimes, they make you wonder if they are 'mindless fans' just like Obama said.[/QUOTE]

From your own factcheck.org...There's at least some truth in both ads: German-based DHL announced a deal that could result in 8,200 lost jobs in Wilmington, Ohio. And McCain did in fact oppose an amendment that would have kept DHL from buying Wilmington-based Airborne Express. McCain's campaign manager, Rick Davis, was also a DHL lobbyist charged with easing the merger through the Senate.

At least Obama's statement was based on truth.

You really need to dig a little deeper in these facts, because they really don't say what you believe they say.

Oh, and Sen Obama, Don't stoop to McCain's level and start a negative campaign. You've been positive and refreshing so far. That's why CNN's latest polls put you ahead 47% to McCain's 41%

[Soravia]

It was McCain's fault that he opposed a pork bill that would prevent DHL from buying a company that is falling into pieces? Last time I checked, DHL isn't really going strong against FedEx and UPS either.

So a weak company tries to buy another weak company and McCain blocks a pork bill that would prevent it (Bill for whose interest? workers?). The merger is successful and people got thier jobs and be happy. Then WHAM! economy goes down and so does DHL who relies on businesses to ship stuff. So DHL lays off people. Blame goes to McCain.

Nice try but no cigars.

[rn79870]

It's really not about fault. Politicians vote based on the facts as they know them. If the result of that vote was unanticipated, then the politician isn't as culpable as he would be if he has known the potential outcome.

In any case, the matter is somewhat true and somewhat untrue. That's the typical muddy water that political supporters like to swim in.

[AZhitman]

Maybe he didn't subscribe to everything the good Reverend said. Apparently he didn't, as he critized the man for his comments.

AFTER he was called on the carpet repeatedly.

He sure as hell didn't stand up and walk out. In fact, early on, he referenced the Rev as his "spiritual leader" and showed high regard for him.

My pastor makes a racist comment or a bigoted statement like that, I'm standing up, interrupting his sermon, and walking out. Not coming back week after week, month after month, for nearly 2 decades.

Apparently he liked what he heard every week to stay. It's certainly not the ONLY church in the 4th-largest city in the US, ya know.

[themadscientist]

Who you choose to hang around is indicative of who you are. Fact.

The really damming thing Obama did with the whole Wright affair is not that he shares the mans views and spent all those years in the church. And he does share those views, see above and listen to his wife, the mother of his children parrot the same venom. No If he had stuck to his guns I would have at least given him a few stars for character. No, in spite of Obama's admitted respect for this man in written and spoken word he threw him under the bus as soon as it became politically convenient. He stabbed his "mentor" in the back, the man who married him just to serve his selfish ends. There is your Messiah, there is your "agent of change".

[skylndrftr]

Who you choose to hang around is indicative of who you are. Fact.

Absoooooooolutely

http://www.foxbusiness.com/sto...reed/Quote »This week John McCain has stayed busy trying to escape his ties to criminal lobbyist Jack Abramoff and his shady lobbyist colleagues, including Randy Scheunemann and Ralph Reed. The McCain campaign has been trying to gloss over the details of Scheunemann's swings between lobbying and advising McCain, often on issues of interest to recent clients, and attempting to excuse McCain's enlistment of Abramoff crony Reed to raise money. But the McCain campaign can't spin away Scheunemann's shady ties, or his influence on McCain, and they're not having any more success trying to escape the fallout over McCain's refusal to cancel his Monday fundraiser with Reed. [/quote]

[rn79870]

Sky has a very good point guys. After all, fair is fair - Birds of a feather as you say.

Does that "who you choose to hang around with" cover people that were addicted to prescription drugs and stole from them from a charity?

[skylndrftr]

Why thank you Bob :hug:

Ther eare portions of the republican (true republican mind you) ideology that I do support. However I cannot ever consider supporting a party with the laundry list of hyporcracy and deception we see from them. You here a lot of support the troops from them as a campaign manuever, but their presidential candidate voted against giving troops an education 'because it might encourage them to leave'...I could go on and on and on. Run as morality: cheating, lieing, stealing members push those charges.

But the one that bothers me the most is anytime any democrat 'surrogate' impugns the credibility of these sycophants you hear the classic phrase 'They need to disavow X' seriously guys...how can you even do that wit ha straight face. Disavow Strom Thurmond, disavow all your Adulterous Preachers, disavow everyone else your sleazy group of nuts associate themselves with.

Obama has the moral high ground because if nothing else hes not a liar. He isn't involved iwth Jack Abramoff (McCain is) he doesn't vote against the troops and then (literally) lie to their face when called on it (McCain does). I mean seriously they may have claimed the morality high ground but they by no means have the moral one.

[Soravia]

IF everyone here agrees so to fact that Obama's Rev. Wright flap is just as bad as McCain's campaign staff issues, my point is well accepted by everyone.

Barack Obama is a lying hypocrit who claims of changing the Washington and bring a new form of higher politics that would get rid of pork-barreling, mud-slinging, shady supporters and gold-claded rotten core charactrers and yet being all the same as any other politicans.

The only saint in this world are the ones who admit their sins and attempt to avoid them from then on.

As for the GI Bill. I have seen it. Different people have different points of view. But since it kicks in after the soldiers have left the active duty, it DOES encourage people to leave the duty. McCain wanted something to counter that effect, not to say that the benefits after leaving the duty is too good for the troops.

Here's an objective news piece.http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/Story?id=4652517

[skylndrftr]

You don't really need a news piece when theres a nice video of what the man says. McCain has more scandals and skeletons in the closet than I have fingers and toes. If nothing else, the people around the world actually like Obama which puts us on the right track.

[smockers83]

If nothing else, the people around the world actually like Obama which puts us on the right track.

And that's a very, very troubling track you'd be walking down, a track leading to possible disaster. I don't give a flying rat's *** what the world thinks about the presidential candidate. Kerry tried something similar to that in 04 and probably lost because of it. I mean seriously. What do they really know what's going on inside our country? If you think they know because of CNN worldwide or something, let me ask you this. How well do you know what's going on in any other country?

There are quite a few contradictory statements in this thread, just an observation.

[themadscientist]

If Europe, excluding England, like you I don't want you in power. Those bastards have been jealous of us for years and would like nothing more than to swing the balance of power back their way. **** THEM!

[smockers83]

If people are so concerned about what the world thinks about a presidential candidate before he even becomes president, would it be a stretch to say those people are neoconservatives due to the emphasis on foreign policy? Neoconservatives have a huge emphasis on foreign policy and also define those that converted from the New Left counterculture. Just a thought.

Lets do what's best for our country first and worry about the world second.

[skylndrftr]

If Europe, excluding England, like you I don't want you in power. Those bastards have been jealous of us for years and would like nothing more than to swing the balance of power back their way. **** THEM!

Yeah and its not like the Euro or their economy or social policies have nothign to teach us.

[audtatious]

We get it. The US is horrible and a crappy place to live. All full of bigots and racists.

Why have you not moved to where you feel the love?

[themadscientist]

Yeah and its not like the Euro or their economy or social policies have nothign to teach us.

That had to have been sarcastic.

You have people in England pulling their own teeth because the wait for the savior that is socialized medicine takes too long.http://www.telegraph.co.uk/new....html

France and the rest of Europe is held hostage by extremists who are willing to burn the country down at the drop of a hat.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,189301,00.html

http://www.washingtonpost.com/....html

http://www.brusselsjournal.com/node/382

Yeah the EU is who we should emulate If you love it so much then go live there.

[smockers83]

The EU has been trying to emulate us, the United States. Just about anything you want to know about the EU, I could probably explain, at least from an economic standpoint with some politics.

[AZhitman]

Kids.... living in the greatest country in the world, yet they have NO CLUE how good they have it.

They will, however, run their yaps and point to other countries as these great "Utopias"... but they know nothing of living there.

I don't give a damn what the rest of the world thinks of our President. Know why? Because they're ALL LIARS. They'll snuggle up to BO, who is so damn naive he thinks they REALLY LIKE HIM... As soon as they get the chance, he's gonna regret letting his guard down.

There's a reason everyone wants what we have. If the EU is so great, pack your crap - Keep us posted on your standard of living.

This "citizen of the world" crap appeals to the mouthbreathing hippie retards who think it all sounds so wonderful... I'm not interested in being beholden to the UN, the EU, NATO, the World Court, or any other international organization.

Screw that noise.