project M30 TT

[ttinfinitiM30]

ok ok ok.... i posted a while ago with the idea of a TT engine in an M30, i got some crap from people with it being more of a pain in the a$$ then its worth but im followin throughwith it anyways and this is how its gon so far......i started a few months ago and have jus been picking at the car bit by bit. as it sits ive got the old motor out and the new motor has had a few attempts of making its way into the car. my first atempt of placing the motor in came to a stop rather quick cause the oil pan from the TT is much different from the stock engine. the sump for the TT is in the rear and the sump for old is in the front. so wat i had to do was make the old pan fit the TT. this involved enlarging the bolt holes in the pan to fit the other pattern. ill also have to add return lines to the oil pan from the turbos and the oil cooler. the second attempt of putting the engine in: the drivers side turbo is hitting the P/S rack and the motor mounts are too wide. i took out the steering rack so that id have nothing in my way for getting the engine mounted. the manual trany lines up well with the hole in the tunnel but i still need to get the shifter and linkage before i know for sure. the stock crossmember on the transmission can be used so at least thats taken care of. as i said ive been taking my time with this, but this weekend ill try to get the engine in its place so i can make motor mounts. somone told me a hockey puck works good as a mount so i may try to fit one in there if it works. one of the problems the body had was that the ABS pump and master cylder was leaking. brake fluid and paint do not mix. so while i have the engine out itll be a good time to touch up those areas this is all the progress for now ill return latter with more details

[95-J30tt]

nice job, i had delt with something similar, i dont know much about the stock engine of the M30, but i'm assuming it is almost the same as the J30 with about the same space in the engine bay (code VG30DE, i believe that the M30 has a code VG30E single overhead cam), any how, it took me forever to firgure out that the engine mounting brackets of the J engine would fit the TT motor, believe it or not, it does fit, it has a different bolt pattern...., but the pattern for the J mounts were there also and they were threaded too, so that made things a lot easier, try (although it sounds unreal) to take out the mounts that you had on your stock engine, and find a place for them in the TT engine (if the M30 engine has the same block as the TT, then the bolt pattern is there, you just have to find it, and most likely it will also be threaded and there waiting for you), and you can use your stock rubber mounts or the TT mounts, there is one bolt (i think it is on the driver side) that will be impossible to put in without taking the turbo actuator out of the way

As for the turbo hitting the stearing rack, do you mean that it is hitting the stearing column?, if it is hitting the column, then i had the same issue, if you are taking your time and have a helper drop the engine in with you, then you shouldnt have a problem with it getting past that column, but check first if it is going to constantly be in contact with the turbo, if it is, then grind a little off the turbo exhaust (in my case it was the exhaust), do not mess with the column, you life can depend on it.....

did you get down pipes with the TT motor?, when you buy a JDM, they usually give you part of the exhaust with the engine, dont discard it, it will come handy later

for the oil pan's turbo return lines, i had the exact same issue, i drilled holes in my pan and welded short metal pipes, that way you dont have to worry about them not holding up to the pressure, take measurements first, and watch out for the location of the holes that you are going to drill (i learned it the hard way....), there is a black trauss on each side that supports the transmission to the TT engine from the bottom, make sure that the pipes that you are going to weld wont interfere with those trausses

when you drop the engine in next time for a test fit, pay close attention to the location of the oil filter bracket, if it sits close to the rack, then just take a picture of it, and i'll try to help you as much as i can, i have the transadapt catalogue (they make oil filter relocation kits), they have various kits, the one that worked for my setup is part number 1413 (that is only for the part that connects to the stock bracket, and not the full kit) last but not least, for the first 4 times or so you test drop the engine, dont expect the engine to just sit perfectly, expect something to pop up, that way you wont get frustrated every time you take the engine out to work on it, i hope this helps, keep us all updated, and i just want to say that what you are doing is great, i'm almost done with the swap on my J and i know how hard it is without a write up

sorry for the lengthy post

[Defiant]

for the oil pan's turbo return lines, i had the exact same issue, i drilled holes in my pan and welded short metal pipes, that way you dont have to worry about them not holding up to the pressure,

Turbo drains are just gravity pressure. They're the last place to leak. You do want to be sure the path is all downhill, without jogs so far as possible.

[95-J30tt]

use the oil pick up tube that is in your stock engine, it will fit perfectly in the TT engine, and the holes are threaded and all there in the TT setup.... the problem that you will face later (i'm still not sure how to solve it) is the oil dipstick, you wont be able to use the TT dipstick anymore, becuase your pan is different now. i havent tried much yet with solving this issue, but i'm sure it is not hard if you compare it with the other issues you are facing, take a lot of photos of the oil dipstick location and the engines bottom side with the oil pan out, they will come handy later

[elwesso]

this is what the M and J community has been after... Thanks for helping out 95J30t and I hope that we really have a TT M30 on the board soon too!!

Great thread, lets keep it going!

[ttinfinitiM30]

thnx for the support guys.well i looked more closly at the motor mounts today from the old engine even tried to fit them up but theres several problems id b running into trining to use them. like the inlet tube for the turbo wont fit and the turbo oil oressure switch is in the way, plus the bolt pattern isnt the same. my orginal thought was that they wouldn't have changed the motor mounts when they went from single to dual cams but thety did and that thought is bighting me in the ***. the blocks for the dual in the j30 and the one for the TT are relativley the same though. as far as relocating the dipstick, i found a leftover cast spot on the block about five/six inches in front of the old dipstick location. i plan on drilling this out and runnning the dipstick though this spot and just taping out hte old spot and run a bolt into it. on my next atempt on putting the engine in, ive already took out the P/S rack so that it wont be at all in my way, ill also bolt the trans back on the engine cause this will give me a good idea how far back the engine will be setting since the transmission mounts are the same. im still gonna try and work with the TT mounts one last time to give myself a relative idea how close i am to getting them to work. if the TT mounts wont work then ill resort to some custom fabing. hopfuly ill have that next attempt this weekend so till then.....

[95-J30tt]

locate a place around where you live, where you can get J30 mounts (they are only for the J, you wont find them from the 300zx engine), they are shorter and easier to deal with when installed into the TT, i'm guessing that your engine sits high now (Note: the 300zx mounting brackets are longer and made from a different alloy than the Js, moreover, the J has less bolts and a different bolt pattern, i remeber that the J has 3 bolts on each bracket, the 300zx has 5 i believe), if the engine sits high, then you will most likely need a J engine mounting brackets, they work well with the TT rubber mounts, that is what i have used for the J's set up, i faced that problem too and i know how you feel, i hope that this suggestion helps

if you have no choice but to go with fabricating the mounts, then remember that what ever work you do now, will get back at you later if it is not done well, so take your time, and make sure that you are not pressured time wise

[ttinfinitiM30]

got a few pics of where my new dipstick location will be. i figure theres plenty of support here for it. the blue is the location ill use the green is the old dipstick.

as for the mounts last i tried to fit the engine in w/ the rubbers on they were still bout three inches too wide so this next shot ill be using just the metal bracket to see where im at from there. i beleive u said (95-j30t) that the j30 mounts only gave u bout 1/2 inch closer. i might try them but do u know the measurement between the j30 mounts cause that would be the easy way to get the better idea. worst case senario is ill make them and if i do ill be using 1/2 inch steel, plus ive got enough manufacturing background that i feel ill be safe with wat ever i make (or at least thats what i tell myself). as for my time.... ive got too much of it and i plan on using it to make sure all goes well.

[elwesso]

if you have full size versions of those pics i can host them on my iserve account for you if you want!!!

[95-J30tt]

i'm going to be working on my engine this weekend, i'll be more than happy to measure the distance between the mounts for you (i'll do that from under the engine bay, it wont be precise, i'll probably be off by 1/2 an inch or so, i'll try my best to be very close), for now, i have a pic of my engine bay in a thread in this forum, here is the link

zer...age=1

the pic is near the middle of the first page of that thread, i hope this helps for now, i'll have the measurement ready for you by saturday night (yeah i know, normal people go out on saturday...... but the project is worth the sacrifice.... )

by the way, great idea for the dipstick, i'll be looking for that same spot for installation, thanks a million

[ttinfinitiM30]

Yeah!!! OK the engine is in the car and stable (for now). the problem is i dont have any room right now for rubber motor mounts. ive got the mounts shimmed by peices of 1/2 inch ply wood and thats not much room for a mount to fit in. and as for the J30 comparison the M30 has 19 inches between mounts on the frame. and 95-j30t did u happen to notice if the j30 mounts are straight across the engine (looking from the side). cause the TT brackets i have seem to be about an inch or so off from each other.



im not sure if ill b able to find a rubber mount small enough to fit in the space so i might jus b using thej30 mounts if they give enough room.

now that i had the engine in place i tried puttimg the steering rack back in. this only showed how bad the collum will hit the drivers side turbo. now im wondering if the J30 rack is wide enough to correct this problem. if not ill be measuring all the cars steeing racks that come into my work untill i find one that will work, but if 95-j30t's rack fit past his turbos then i think ill be in luck.



i also thought its a good time to look a the oil filter location. it looks like theres more room on this then the j30 but not enough for a filter. so ill be doing a filter relocation. now about this. im thinking that if the J30 and the TT have the same block then unless the j30 uses a standoff filter setup to begin with, then it would be posable to use the relocating adaptor straight off of the block instead of the standoff. i know the filter part on the block of the TT dosent have threads, but like the dipstick locations and motor mounts the machining step maby would have been the same in the filter location and the pice in the center can jus be un threaded and a filter thread put in its place. so if somone with a j30 would know if the filter is on the block that would be helpful. either way filter relocating is what will happen. well thats my progress, if any one has ideas itd b helpfull

[elwesso]

Thanks for the update... As an aside, CAN I CHANGE YOUR SCREEN NAME TO "ttinfinitiM30".... i cant stand having the spelling wrong, but i dont want to change it without telling you...

With the 1/2 in plywood, is the engine sitting about how it should or is it too high/low??? it almost looks like it sits too low right now...? It looks like the TT mounts fit perfect with the stock mounts.. I think at this stage the mounts arent oging to be as much of an issue as the steering column...

Remembering how my Q45 rack is, it seems the space between the mount on the drivers side and the pinion gear is a little more, i wonder if itd give you enough clearance....

[ttinfinitiM30]

well i havent had the hood on or the upper plenium jus yet but as i think. it seems to be at the right hight. the cooling fan is bout centered with where the fan shroud will sit... i think.

the TT brackets are directly above the frame where it should be.. but when the rubbers are on the brackets because of the angle of the bracket they get a bit widder then 19 inches i would need a mount that has a verticle bolt instead of following the angle of the bolt holes.

i guess the only way to figure out another steering rack is to measure the distances from center of the engine to the pininon of the rack. and from the mounts. if u can find them that' b grately apreciated as for my name.. if u know how to correct my name go ahead as long as i can still log on

[ttinfinitiM30]

OOOO..... and elwesso i saw that u got som diagrams of the TT for 95-j30t. i followed the link but culdnt find where to download any. if you could repost them it b helpfull. thnx

[elwesso]

changed your username, just login as ttinfinitiM30...

Just tell me what diagrams you want (from the parts book or service manual) and i'll upload them. I can get you basically anything you need...

[ttinfinitiM30]

ahh... not really sure off hand cause im not sure whats in there.

i know that i need some help with the wireing harness cause i got a few cut ends to my harness that im not sure about. i guess any vaccum charts so i know whats needed.

well on that site though what programs can i install them into, when i try to download it says what prog to use and gives a browse option. ive got adobe but not sure what will read it.thnx for the help

[elwesso]

ok so you got the FSM off phatg20.net, right???

You need to install winRAR.. just type that into google and download it. youre downloading a compressed file that has many other files in it....

Extract the RAR file and then it will bring up the FSM....

[ttinfinitiM30]

winRAR cost money. ar there any free programs to open it??

[elwesso]

just download the demo.

http://www.rarlab.com/rar/wrar362.exe

[ttinfinitiM30]

man my puter must have problems or somthin. i cant save it to nothin. the options there, jus OK is not avalable.

[elwesso]

if youre using internet explorer right click on the link I posted and click SAVE TARGET AS....

[ttinfinitiM30]

finnaly.....

i had som stuff hiding on my puter had to get rid of it first. got the download thanx alot man for the help

[elwesso]

no problem.. keep me updated on what you might need from the parts book.

[95-J30tt]

looking good, i'm doing the measurements for the mounts tomorrow (sorry about that, i had an emergency today)

i have noticed the different hight of the TT mounts, i have not measured them though, but yes one is higher than the other for sure and the mounts are of different lengths to compinsate for that....

after looking at the pictures, i had a similar problem, and it's funny, i have used 1/2 inch ply wood too to hold the engine in temporarely......., i think that the J's mounting brackets and rubber mounts would work on this setup, it looks promising form the pictures (i'm not sure where the whole is exactly behind the wood, so that might change things, in my case, the wholes didnt line up and the tt mounts where misalligned outwards by 1/2 an inch on each side......), before i changed my mounts, the engine was sitting high even without putting the rubber mounts in place.....

as for the steering column, the J's rack barely cleared the column, it is still hitting it slightly when i turn the steering wheel, but i'm planning to remove the engine one last time to grind the turbo exhaust a little to fully clear that obsticle, so try to get a hold of a J's rack, and/or a 300zx rack, that should solve it easily

for the filter relocation, i have tried a lot of methods with it, i have some pictures in the TT progress topic, and if you need more, i'll gladly e-mail them to you, please let me know... i strongly suggest that you use a relocation kit, i have pictures of the bracket i used to clear the rack in the tt progress topic, if that is the way you are choosing, then get a kit that has the same bracket that is shown in the pics of the j's progress topic, any other one will not work, i took the tt oil bracket out, hooked up everything and then put it back again, it works like a charm, remember that this step haulted my swap for a while, i have tried so many other methods and kit brackets to make it work, i have even thought of what you have mensioned (i have not tried to un thread that cap though, but i'm sure it can be done), but there is no room for a filter in there, even the smallest filter will not fit....... . from what i see, it seems like you took out the passenger side turbo, dont forget that the turbo will sit 2 inches away from that oil bracket, the turbo actuator sits even closer to the oil bracket, moreover, there are lines for an oil cooler, that is something that the TT needs..........

great progress, you are about half way, that is fast, good work man, keep it up, keep us updated, i'll be watching this topic constantly, good luck

[95-J30tt]

here is a picture to clarify, the filter relocation bracket did not work, the one that would work is under the first pic

[ttinfinitiM30]

yea i was plannig on using one of those kits. i saw the problems u had with the other kind from reading ur post. do u have any pics of ur P/S rack fitting around the turbo?? cause pictures help alot.

yea i did take that turbo out... for some reason??? but once i get the mounts and steering taken care of then ill be looking to get the oil relocation done. ill have pics later of the location of the holes of the mounts and how far there off.

[95-J30tt]

i didnt take a pic of the steering column clearing the turbo, but will do that today, i'll post it along with the dimensions, i'll be taking the dimensions of mounts, and i'll have the dimension of the rack (centre of rack to steering column, i'll try to get a pic with the measuring tape on

[ttinfinitiM30]

ok i measured my rack, 9 inches from center... 4 inches from inner edge of mount i figure 11 or 12 from center will give me enough clearence.

my mounts turned out the drivers side hole lines up. but the pass side is bout 1/2 inch off (the engine hole being too far forward). i know its hard to see but i drilled a hole and have a pipe cleaner sticking through the hole. if that helps u see wtf ur looking at. the outline is of the engine side of the wood.

hey elwesso... u called it... the engine is sitting bout an inch too low. i set the radiator and fan shroud in place and tried lining it up with the engine fan. i figure i need bout 5/8-3/4 gap between the TT mounts and the frame. and if the J30 mounts correct that 1/2 inch on the pass side mount and are shorter then the TT mouts then it looks very promising that the mounts will go well.

[95-J30tt]

i just got back from working a little on the car, the mounts are 19-20'' apart (i measured from the bottom, so the top would be a little shorter, i took pics, i'll have to sort them and post the best one), the rack is 21 inches (from end to end, excluding the steering shafts on each side, again i took pictures, i'll just sort and post the best one)

the thing is that the J's mounting brackets will only bring your engine down more, i dunno how much good will that do, but in any case, if the engine sits low, you can always get it higher by a 1/2 inch steel plate (round), you can find them at welding shops (i was unable to find round ones, but they can cut it into shape for about 10 bucks a piece), you can place them between the engine bracket and the rubber mounts, as long as you have enough clearance for the bolts to tighten, you will be fine.....

so if you use the brackets from the J's engine, it will bring the engine down, that could hurt the oil flow, i have a pic showing how my engine sat with the TT brackets (in my case, the tt brackets made the engine sit too high), i'll post them along with the others tonight

[95-J30tt]

sorry that i couldnt get better pics

this one is for the rack, i dont know if it is even worth posting, sorry again dude, i'll get better ones during the week, it reads 21.5, but i'm assuming that i'm off by 1/2''



and here is the steering column one