Since there is one last group buy, I am sure many are researching to see if they should buy one or not before the deadline on the 25th. I know I am, and thanks to all you guys who helped, I have learned a lot.
This thread serves for people who currently have the D2 coilovers or have heard about them, about any problems associated with D2 coilovers. This will help give us more of an educated purchase and if we are willing to deal with the problems are not. So far I have heard that rears of the s14 are dropped too low. And with the sentras, there wasn't a mounting place for the stock swaybar. Also barriga said "anyways any having problems with clearing the coilovers? my stock S14 SE rims are rubbing on the coils...i can't figure out why. also is there an easy way to get the sides lined up (lowered the same on each side) better?" If you have had a problem please list the solution, so when I get it I can know what to do instead of stressin my *** out. :help Thanks
problems with D2 coilovers thread
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publicenemy137
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Setting the height evenly has nothing to do with D2 coilovers. With any adjustable coilover setup, heights are setup by the user/installer. I can offer you some suggestions and hints.
If all you're looking for is an 'even' ride, I've always found the best way to do this is with an everyday floor jack. Simply set one corner (let's say driver/front) to the desired height. Next, jack the floor jack up at the front of the frame rail (don't jack the car up, we're just measuring). Then go to the other side of the car and raise/lower the suspension until the floor jack lines up to that sides frame rail. Repeat this process for the rear.
If you want the best performance and handling, find a shop that can corner balance your car (usually only specialized race shops will be able to do this for you). This is the only 'proper' way to set your height. Please realize that your car will NOT sit even after corner balancing but you will achieve optimal handling.
If you'd like to know more about corner balancing (or corner weighing), there is a link in the suspension faq sticky (along with many other very useful links). I'll save you the trouble though...http://www.grmotorsports.com/cornerweight.html
Note, I'd recommend allowing your springs to settle for at least one week before attempting to set your height or corner balance.
If all you're looking for is an 'even' ride, I've always found the best way to do this is with an everyday floor jack. Simply set one corner (let's say driver/front) to the desired height. Next, jack the floor jack up at the front of the frame rail (don't jack the car up, we're just measuring). Then go to the other side of the car and raise/lower the suspension until the floor jack lines up to that sides frame rail. Repeat this process for the rear.
If you want the best performance and handling, find a shop that can corner balance your car (usually only specialized race shops will be able to do this for you). This is the only 'proper' way to set your height. Please realize that your car will NOT sit even after corner balancing but you will achieve optimal handling.
If you'd like to know more about corner balancing (or corner weighing), there is a link in the suspension faq sticky (along with many other very useful links). I'll save you the trouble though...http://www.grmotorsports.com/cornerweight.html
Note, I'd recommend allowing your springs to settle for at least one week before attempting to set your height or corner balance.
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publicenemy137
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barrigas14
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alight here is what is happening.
the hieght is not D2's fault...that would be mine. i thought i could do it that way as stated above with setting them while on the car. yeah i gave up and took them off and set them up side by side. measuring the distance between everything so it was the same.
the front rubbing is a convern though. but i think it has to do with me running a wider tire than stock. it is a 225 instead of a 205. so that is more than likely the problem. anyways to deal with that i compressed the spring more on both sides and then lowered the perch more on both sides. again measuring everything to get it right. well problem is now solved and no worries except that my front is rasied up and my rear is lowered. but i can fix that.
btw if you buy get a softer spring. the 9/7 combo i have is great. it is soild and a little bumpy but nothing terrible. a 7/5 or even a 5/3 would be as soft as some springs.
the hieght is not D2's fault...that would be mine. i thought i could do it that way as stated above with setting them while on the car. yeah i gave up and took them off and set them up side by side. measuring the distance between everything so it was the same.
the front rubbing is a convern though. but i think it has to do with me running a wider tire than stock. it is a 225 instead of a 205. so that is more than likely the problem. anyways to deal with that i compressed the spring more on both sides and then lowered the perch more on both sides. again measuring everything to get it right. well problem is now solved and no worries except that my front is rasied up and my rear is lowered. but i can fix that.
btw if you buy get a softer spring. the 9/7 combo i have is great. it is soild and a little bumpy but nothing terrible. a 7/5 or even a 5/3 would be as soft as some springs.
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publicenemy137
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why is that??? Before I heard they were a rougher ride but most people that actually have em say it's fine. I don't mind a rough ride, like stock is fine, but a lil softer would be nice, I don't like bumping around. But I want better handling and looks wise lowering it makes it look 10 times better. If the ride is a lil rougher than stock that's fine, but most say it's actually softer. Also D2 coilovers are 36-way dampening, should make for a softer ride than stock.Dystopia wrote:if you want a softer ride you dont want coilovers.
Another sucker for the hype. Why would 36 adjustability settings make for a softer ride? You think there is a dial from softer than stock, to harsh ride beyond stock?
You think that because of greater adjustability options, there will somehow be a softer ride quality setting? I don't understand. You're speculating in your defense of something you haven't ever tried. If you've never used coilovers, or aftermarket springs/struts in your lifetime, you really shouldn't imply that because a given coilover assy has a street-useless amount of adjustability range, that this will in any way make any difference whatsoever as to how soft the ride will be. If you want the softest ride, get air suspension seats and factory springs with worn struts.
Even an OEM replacement strut will feel stiffer than original, because you're often replacing a worn or blown unit with a properly functioning piece. The job of the strut (shock) is to dampen the action of the spring. A properly functioning strut will deliver a firm response to road conditions. That's all you need.
I'd suggest to all of you, to avoid any coilover unless you're prepared to tweak & adjust and have your car re-aligned after each adjustment. Get some KYB & Eibach springs, accept that the ride will be more firm than stock, and leave height adjustment alone.
The problem with this thread and many like it are the people defending something, that they have no knowledge of. A coilover suspension is by nature a firm, harsh ride. there are levels of adjustability, but most often that range goes from hard to harsh. That is the nature of the coilover. If you heard from a friend that the ride isn't that bad, then your friend has accepted the fact that the ride isn't great, but that the performance feel and vehicle response improved sufficiently to ignore bad/hard ride. That's an OK compromise, if that's what you want. Just don't go around saying that because a coilover offers x amount of adjustability, means it will be any softer in ride quality. That would be misinformation and poor judgement, because you yourself don't actually know, and are guessing.
You think that because of greater adjustability options, there will somehow be a softer ride quality setting? I don't understand. You're speculating in your defense of something you haven't ever tried. If you've never used coilovers, or aftermarket springs/struts in your lifetime, you really shouldn't imply that because a given coilover assy has a street-useless amount of adjustability range, that this will in any way make any difference whatsoever as to how soft the ride will be. If you want the softest ride, get air suspension seats and factory springs with worn struts.
Even an OEM replacement strut will feel stiffer than original, because you're often replacing a worn or blown unit with a properly functioning piece. The job of the strut (shock) is to dampen the action of the spring. A properly functioning strut will deliver a firm response to road conditions. That's all you need.
I'd suggest to all of you, to avoid any coilover unless you're prepared to tweak & adjust and have your car re-aligned after each adjustment. Get some KYB & Eibach springs, accept that the ride will be more firm than stock, and leave height adjustment alone.
The problem with this thread and many like it are the people defending something, that they have no knowledge of. A coilover suspension is by nature a firm, harsh ride. there are levels of adjustability, but most often that range goes from hard to harsh. That is the nature of the coilover. If you heard from a friend that the ride isn't that bad, then your friend has accepted the fact that the ride isn't great, but that the performance feel and vehicle response improved sufficiently to ignore bad/hard ride. That's an OK compromise, if that's what you want. Just don't go around saying that because a coilover offers x amount of adjustability, means it will be any softer in ride quality. That would be misinformation and poor judgement, because you yourself don't actually know, and are guessing.
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barrigas14
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publicenemy137
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hmm so coilovers will make for a more rocky ride huh. But like I said, softness in ride isn't first priority, lowering it, and handling comes first. If my car handles a lot better but is a lil rougher than stock, fine I'll take it But if it's really uncomfortable then I'd rather not get it. And I'm not "buying into the hype" or anything, since when were getting coilovers the next biggest though??? I just want coilovers for practicality, during snow or if I'm driving in an area with a lot of potholes I can just raise my car up (but I did not know I need an alignment everytime I adjust it, that's gay, thanks for that info). normal eibach sportlins/agx shocks are not adjustable, and is coilovers are better then I'd rather just get those
and SmithSR if you've read my other threads, I have already called myself a noob in coilovers. I am learnin all I can and so far everyone has been helpful. And thanks for your information definetly. I think I am going to buy these coilovers, most people say they are solid and worth it. I have a question though, some say there is a setting where these coilovers are softer than stock and handle better, this true?
and SmithSR if you've read my other threads, I have already called myself a noob in coilovers. I am learnin all I can and so far everyone has been helpful. And thanks for your information definetly. I think I am going to buy these coilovers, most people say they are solid and worth it. I have a question though, some say there is a setting where these coilovers are softer than stock and handle better, this true?
To get a softer than stock ride, you'd need lower spring rates, and less damping force, paired to anti-sway bars with less roll stiffness. Do you want any of those things?
There is no magical setting that will lessen the effects of a shorter spring with a higher spring rate. Sorry. You can set a shock dial to it's lowest possible rate, and still have a bone-jarring spring to contend with. Ever see a Honda civic bounce down the road? We all have. Chances are, it's a combination of too stiff or cut springs paired with junk struts or blown struts or struts that are bottoming out.
The common perception of better handling, is a firmer-than-stock ride which tends to respond to driver input quicker. Q45tech would tell you that a significantly better tire would yield a better return, if you were to do instrumented testing for roadholding and cornering.
Since nobody here will do instrumented testing, but would rather plop down big bucks for a coilover package with near unlimited adjustability range, and call it an improvement, I call it hype. You don't have to believe me, but you should at least go back and search through some of Q45tech's old posts to see what he says about increase in lateral road holding when comparing stiffer springs, to stiffer roll bars, to tire upgrades. What I've taken from his posts are, greater gains in actual road holding and actual performance can be found in matching roll stiffness to your tires. Over-stiff suspension produces lower road holding. Some body roll is intended and actually a plus.
So, back to your question of if there is a setting that rides softer than stock and handle better. Those are obviously two subjective qualities, and since, again, nobody here will do instrumented testing, nobody can actually prove either is true, except by what the seat of their pants tells them. Sounds like a story from a mechanic under the shade tree.
Bottom line is, you're asking for a strut assy to do two opposite things. People may tell you that it's possible, but that is their perception of what the ride "used to be" compared to what the ride "is now" and that can be conjecture, bar-stool racing, shade tree war stories.... take it for what it's worth, because only instrumented testing would disprove me, or prove others to be correct.
There is no magical setting that will lessen the effects of a shorter spring with a higher spring rate. Sorry. You can set a shock dial to it's lowest possible rate, and still have a bone-jarring spring to contend with. Ever see a Honda civic bounce down the road? We all have. Chances are, it's a combination of too stiff or cut springs paired with junk struts or blown struts or struts that are bottoming out.
The common perception of better handling, is a firmer-than-stock ride which tends to respond to driver input quicker. Q45tech would tell you that a significantly better tire would yield a better return, if you were to do instrumented testing for roadholding and cornering.
Since nobody here will do instrumented testing, but would rather plop down big bucks for a coilover package with near unlimited adjustability range, and call it an improvement, I call it hype. You don't have to believe me, but you should at least go back and search through some of Q45tech's old posts to see what he says about increase in lateral road holding when comparing stiffer springs, to stiffer roll bars, to tire upgrades. What I've taken from his posts are, greater gains in actual road holding and actual performance can be found in matching roll stiffness to your tires. Over-stiff suspension produces lower road holding. Some body roll is intended and actually a plus.
So, back to your question of if there is a setting that rides softer than stock and handle better. Those are obviously two subjective qualities, and since, again, nobody here will do instrumented testing, nobody can actually prove either is true, except by what the seat of their pants tells them. Sounds like a story from a mechanic under the shade tree.
Bottom line is, you're asking for a strut assy to do two opposite things. People may tell you that it's possible, but that is their perception of what the ride "used to be" compared to what the ride "is now" and that can be conjecture, bar-stool racing, shade tree war stories.... take it for what it's worth, because only instrumented testing would disprove me, or prove others to be correct.
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publicenemy137
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haha jdmfreak that sig is so funny. whenever i take a shiat in college dorms I get the toilet paper, rip it, and put it around the rim.
Anyways back on topic, I guess I wasn't clear. I mainly just want to lower my car to make it look nicer, and since it handles better, that's great. But I guess I see what you are saying SmithSR, I can't get all 3 when they are kind of opposite to each other. I will get these coilovers just so I can lower my car, that is the main reason why I want these coilovers. Not to drift, softness in ride. But better looks and handling, so I guess screw comfortable rides, who wants that when my car looks better and I can take corners faster and better.
I would research coilovers more instead of asking/making newb assumptions, but the deadline is the 25th before the sale is over. And fulling knowing anything takes a long time of researching to fully understand it.
I am getting all these assumptions out of the way, and thanks SmithSR and others who are helping me. So far I am not a hardcore drifter or tuner, but these coilovers seem like a good buy to me just b/c it's a great price and I can lower em/adjust em.
Anyways back on topic, I guess I wasn't clear. I mainly just want to lower my car to make it look nicer, and since it handles better, that's great. But I guess I see what you are saying SmithSR, I can't get all 3 when they are kind of opposite to each other. I will get these coilovers just so I can lower my car, that is the main reason why I want these coilovers. Not to drift, softness in ride. But better looks and handling, so I guess screw comfortable rides, who wants that when my car looks better and I can take corners faster and better.
I would research coilovers more instead of asking/making newb assumptions, but the deadline is the 25th before the sale is over. And fulling knowing anything takes a long time of researching to fully understand it.
I am getting all these assumptions out of the way, and thanks SmithSR and others who are helping me. So far I am not a hardcore drifter or tuner, but these coilovers seem like a good buy to me just b/c it's a great price and I can lower em/adjust em.
Well, if you want a near-stock ride quality, you could ask for the 3.5/3.5 spring rate. It's the softest they come in. It may help a little bit in handling, but will also give you the height adjustment that you want. ...and make sure you get them without pillow ball mounts. I'm sure they aren't merited for your needs.
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publicenemy137
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Yea i was goin to get lowering springs/shocks but they aren't adjustable, and if I drive in an area with a lot of potholes (DC) my car will be screwed. So I need adjustable coilovers, and like I said, softness does not come first, it would be nice but oh well. I guess if worse comes to worse I can sell it off of ebay
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barrigas14
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Im not sure if anyone has mentioned this cause I didnt read each post in this thread word for word but tires also make a difference in ride quality whether it be harsh or soft. I'll use my case as an example, I was running my stock wheels with stock size 195/60/R14 tires but these were cheap no big name tires. When I got my Team Dynamics wheels im now running Falken Ziex ZE-512 205/50/R15 tires and my ride is softer now with these even though its a 50 series tire compared to a 60 series which has more cushion to absorb bumps, it goes to show its not always the series of tire that will determine if your gonna have a good ride or not but the quality of the tire. I am running Tein S.tech/KYB AGX for any of you wondering what suspension im running. I just thought id throw my thoughts into this convo since no one had mention tires as a cause of soft or harsh ride.
But about the coilovers, I used to run GC's with AGX's and for anyone who says adjusting dampers to a softer setting doesnt help unfortunately isnt correct because although the AGX's dont have 36 dampening settings like the D2's, I could still feel a difference when my AGX's were on a harder setting as opposed to a softer setting, im not saying the difference was like going from a F1 car to a Lexus LS430 but im also not saying that the difference wasnt noticable because it was. I am getting the 7/5 setup on my P10 with the D2's and you have to figure with 36 dampening settings there has to be alot of room for adjustability between a relatively soft ride, soft meaning related to coilovers, not soft like a Buick Regal, and pretty stiff ride that you would normally use on a road course with very minimal bumps.
But about the coilovers, I used to run GC's with AGX's and for anyone who says adjusting dampers to a softer setting doesnt help unfortunately isnt correct because although the AGX's dont have 36 dampening settings like the D2's, I could still feel a difference when my AGX's were on a harder setting as opposed to a softer setting, im not saying the difference was like going from a F1 car to a Lexus LS430 but im also not saying that the difference wasnt noticable because it was. I am getting the 7/5 setup on my P10 with the D2's and you have to figure with 36 dampening settings there has to be alot of room for adjustability between a relatively soft ride, soft meaning related to coilovers, not soft like a Buick Regal, and pretty stiff ride that you would normally use on a road course with very minimal bumps.
Video of the D2's in action:http://www.engr.uconn.edu/~cor...ent1/please save files before viewing. Thanks (my runs are labeled "PJ")
Mods on car:D2 coilovers w/ pillowball mounts (5.5 turns front, 5 turns rear, IIRC, set from full soft)ebay TC rodsebay RUCAsWhiteline sways on full stiff
Qualifications:1st place SM class by 2 full seconds, 2 days in a row. 11th place overall in PAX among some of the nation's top autocross drivers.
Also: I've had these things for over a month.
Mods on car:D2 coilovers w/ pillowball mounts (5.5 turns front, 5 turns rear, IIRC, set from full soft)ebay TC rodsebay RUCAsWhiteline sways on full stiff
Qualifications:1st place SM class by 2 full seconds, 2 days in a row. 11th place overall in PAX among some of the nation's top autocross drivers.
Also: I've had these things for over a month.
jdmp10 wrote:Im not sure if anyone has mentioned this cause I didnt read each post in this thread word for word but tires also make a difference in ride quality whether it be harsh or soft. I'll use my case as an example, I was running my stock wheels with stock size 195/60/R14 tires but these were cheap no big name tires. When I got my Team Dynamics wheels im now running Falken Ziex ZE-512 205/50/R15 tires and my ride is softer now with these even though its a 50 series tire compared to a 60 series which has more cushion to absorb bumps, it goes to show its not always the series of tire that will determine if your gonna have a good ride or not but the quality of the tire. I am running Tein S.tech/KYB AGX for any of you wondering what suspension im running. I just thought id throw my thoughts into this convo since no one had mention tires as a cause of soft or harsh ride.
It's likely b/c your sidewalls had so much flex w/ the crappy tires they added bouciness. Better tires should be more 'harsh' but less bouncy if that makes sense to you. ;-p
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publicenemy137
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thanks jdmp10, most people seem to think I want the softness ride of a lexus or buick, no my priority is looks and better handling, if the ride is too rough then i wouldn't want it but if it is still bearable then i'll take it. A soft ride is a plus but not required. Since most have said if I mess with dampeners I can get it softer than stock, that's definetly a nice plus, while having adjustable height and better than stock handling for $720 is a great buy. And yea jdmfreak I won't adjust it all the time, but during summer I'll lower it for aggressiveness, and raise it slightly in the winter in case it snows.
Quote »A soft ride is a plus but not required. Since most have said if I mess with dampeners I can get it softer than stock, that's definetly a nice plus[/quote]Nobody said they would be softer than stock. You're not paying attention! He said "soft meaning related to coilovers".
Understand this...the stiffer the springs, the more aggressive the struts are valved. Even at their lowest setting, they still have to be stiff enough to cope with the high spring rates otherwise you'd just bounce up and down when you hit a bump. Coilovers come with stiff springs. Get it? So no matter what, whether you have them set to zero or their max setting, they will be stiffer than stock...much stiffer! M-U-C-H S-T-I-F-F-E-R!
Understand this...the stiffer the springs, the more aggressive the struts are valved. Even at their lowest setting, they still have to be stiff enough to cope with the high spring rates otherwise you'd just bounce up and down when you hit a bump. Coilovers come with stiff springs. Get it? So no matter what, whether you have them set to zero or their max setting, they will be stiffer than stock...much stiffer! M-U-C-H S-T-I-F-F-E-R!
Ya Dori Dori is right when he said it will be stiffer then stock, no aftermarket progressive spring or coilovers will be softer then stock and im not saying Publicenemy you said that there gonna be softer then stock but I just wanna make that clear that even the softest progressive springs will be at least 20-30% stiffer then stock because of the fact they are shorter springs which they have to be in order to lower the car at least an inch if not more meaning the coils are closer together meaning they have to be stiffer in order to keep the coils from binding together. Soft related to aftermarket suspension basically means its more then bearable, stiff means its bearable but just barely and harsh means its not bearable on normal city streets. But either option you go with whether its a spring upgrade, progressive springs that is that are 20-30% stiffer then stock or you go with customizeable rate coilovers like the D2's, handling is gonna be improved pretty dramactically, of course the level of improvement depends on the each particular car but in most cases handling difference should be very noticable and you shouldnt have to take your car out to a race track to be able to see that difference but that is where the difference will be fully realized.
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publicenemy137
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