Press 1 For English

[bigbadberry3]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ynews/20100428/ ... ews_ts1831

More fuel to the fire, but I do think people really need to learn English if you plan to live in the US of A. If I were to move to let's say China, they'd probably expect me to learn Chinese.

[Cold_Zero]

ahh just do what I do when I am in McDonalds. I start speaking German if I am confronted with a cashier speaking Spanish.

[szh]

More fuel to the fire, but I do think people really need to learn English if you plan to live in the US of A.

Even though I am an immigrant to the US, I can agree with this.

Yeah, it is fine to want to retain and remember your cultural heritage and language, etc., but it is the Melting Pot that has made America successful - not a divisiveness that is created by everyone wanting to assert their own independence into the mix.

This country needs to maintain a single national language that everybody speaks, uses, writes and communicates with. Sure, learning another language (particularly that of your country of origin) or more is a fine thing to do, of course, so I encourage that, but not at the cost of losing that single language concept.

BTW, the Founding Fathers came 1 vote close to declaring German the national language (to make it even more of a difference with the UK), but English was chosen, and that is the language we need to learn to use well to live here.

Z

[mattblancarte]

Makes sense to me.

Want to speak German, Espanol, etc.? Go for it!

"Maybe it's just the business man in me..." I liked that line, and honestly that was one of the least offensive campaign ads I've seen in a long time.

[n00b240]

Driving has nothing to do with the language you speak ...its also given in 14 languages in alabama not 12

[WDRacing]

I couldn't agree more. This is America, speak English or GTFO. All the leftist stump huggers can follow suit if they think we're being racist. When I was in Korea I tried to learn enough Korean to order beer/food/shop etc. If the person spoke English back to me, I'd switch to English. I tried to learn Japanese, even took a class in college. I missed one class do to the flying schedule and I was so lost I dropped it...lol. I can order beer though...that usually suffices.

Point being, if you want to be here make a damn effort to fit in. Why should we make the effort to welcome people with open arms that don't return the favor. This country friggin rocks. But ffs, if you don't wanna be "part" of the US and do as we do, then GTFO.

[AZhitman]

People in AZ (non-English speakers) generally respect even pathetic attempts to speak Spanish.

That being said, I won't do business with ANYONE who doesn't at least make an attempt to use English in my presence.

(An explanation for those of you not in AZ, the "service" industry here is overwhelmingly Hispanic... Landscaping, construction, house cleaning, painting, car washing, janitorial, etc.)

[HashiriyaS14]

The United States does not, at present, have an "official" state language. English is the de facto standard, but not because of any legislation on the books. (AFAIK)

That doesn't necessarily mean that we shouldn't, but it means that no one is legally COMPELLED, at present, to use English.


In general though, I agree that immigrants should make an attempt to assimilate into whatever society they are immigrating into. Western Europe is having this issue with Muslim immigrants.

[AZhitman]

Western Europe is having this issue with middle-eastern and other immigrants.

FTFY. Islam is a faith, not a place of origin.

[HashiriyaS14]

FTFY. Islam is a faith, not a place of origin.

Very true, but it still has (in this case) manifested itself into an insular group that doesn't want to assimilate, just like certain insular Hispanic groups in the United States. The problem is largely the same.

[MinisterofDOOM]

I am ABSOLUTELY in favor of a multi-lingual society.
What I am not in favor of is a nation where everything must be printed, read, recorded, typed, etc. in multiple languages, or where language selection menus precede the use of any tool.

Make English the legal singular national language. Require its sole use in everything official. No more spanish or french on labels.

To accompany this, start offering elementary schools (all of them, not just the ones with rich parents) MULTIPLE alternative language learning options. And make them good/interesting ones with foundation-building natures. Not just Spanish. I love the Spanish language, but it's not the only one out there. And there are arguably better languages to learn from a "learning how to learn" perspective. I'd love to see more options for slavic languages. Often ignored, but they're great teaching tools and learning them alongside English in elementary school and even high school would offer an educationally useful contrast to English, which would help make learning English easier in turn. Everyone wins.

So, basically: learn more languages across the board. Just make sure English is one of them if you plan to interact with other humans in the US.

[szh]

I am ABSOLUTELY in favor of a multi-lingual society.

Yes, agreed!!

Make English the legal singular national language. Require its sole use in everything official. No more spanish or french on labels.

I just received my June elections absentee ballot in the mail.

Two separate pieces of cardboard ballot paper stock. One is printed in English and the other is printed in Spanish. Apparently (don't know for sure) they are also available in Vietnamese, Korean, Mandarin and a few more languages - I don't recall which ones.

Printing them in both languages on the same sheet might have been okay, but sending me two forms (just in different languages) - one of which I will throw away entirely - doubles the costs for no reason!

As I vaguely recall, they asked me for the language preference when I filled out the forms years ago, so they could have easily just sent me the English forms. Why did they bother sending the Spanish ballots to me at all?

To accompany this, start offering elementary schools (all of them, not just the ones with rich parents) MULTIPLE alternative language learning options. And make them good/interesting ones with foundation-building natures. Not just Spanish. I love the Spanish language, but it's not the only one out there. And there are arguably better languages to learn from a "learning how to learn" perspective. I'd love to see more options for slavic languages. Often ignored, but they're great teaching tools and learning them alongside English in elementary school and even high school would offer an educationally useful contrast to English, which would help make learning English easier in turn. Everyone wins.

So, basically: learn more languages across the board. Just make sure English is one of them if you plan to interact with other humans in the US.

In the private elementary school my son went to till last year, while the education was entirely in English, the only language study (required - not optional) available to learn was Spanish. Nothing else was possible - we asked - and and all the kids had to take Spanish. No exceptions since they "had a language requirement".

The funny part of this was that the school has a relatively tiny percentage of Hispanics. My son's fifth grade class of 12 kids had no Hispanics at all (the kids were three or four Indians, three or four Oriental, three or four White and African American, one Filipino, One Cambodian and one Pakistani). None of the student spoke Spanish at home. Yet, there was no option to opt out of the class at all or take any another language - perhaps at a local language center or something!

Didn't bother me per se, but struck me as an amazing waste of time and resources and effort.

In his current middle school (also private) sixth grade class, the options are better. One language class is required ... Spanish, French, Japanese, Latin and one more that escapes me now. My son chose to continue with Spanish since he had had some exposure to it before. The teacher is from Spain, so he is getting decently fluent ... at the level he is at, of course.

I suppose if he lives in the West or Southwest of the US later in life, this will come in handy.

Z

[AZhitman]

Nah, they'll just see his skin tone and hear his Spanish fluency, think he's Mexican and deport him.

[szh]

Nah, they'll just see his skin tone and hear his Spanish fluency, think he's Mexican and deport him.

Probably!

Z

[audtatious]

If it happens, tell NICO and we will save you!!!!!!!

[ScrapMetal]

A lot of the immigrants that come to this country do it to give their families a better life, and when I mean families I'm talking about their children. They work long hours doing labor jobs such the ones that Greg mentioned, most of them even work multiple jobs, all so they can provide for their children so they can go to school, learn English, get an education and become something in this great country.

[szh]

I just received my June elections absentee ballot in the mail.

Two separate pieces of cardboard ballot paper stock. One is printed in English and the other is printed in Spanish. Apparently (don't know for sure) they are also available in Vietnamese, Korean, Mandarin and a few more languages - I don't recall which ones.

Printing them in both languages on the same sheet might have been okay, but sending me two forms (just in different languages) - one of which I will throw away entirely - doubles the costs for no reason!

As I vaguely recall, they asked me for the language preference when I filled out the forms years ago, so they could have easily just sent me the English forms. Why did they bother sending the Spanish ballots to me at all?

Oops, I was wrong! Too hasty a look when I received it - sorry about that. It is actually two separate ballot papers - each of which is written in English and Spanish - for separate items. Too long for one sheet, I guess.

So, I am less concerned about the waste - although I suppose I could argue that leaving the Spanish out entirely for me (put it on a different sheet for those who want it) could perhaps had reduced it to a single sheet of the ballot stock.

Z

[IBCoupe]

Do any of the advocates here for English as our National language consider themselves libertarians? Are they in favor of the free market?

Why shouldn't the market sort itself out here? Why should the government be telling people the best way to speak?

[AZhitman]

Do any of the advocates here for English as our National language consider themselves libertarians? Are they in favor of the free market?

Why shouldn't the market sort itself out here? Why should the government be telling people the best way to speak?

Agreed 100%.

I don't believe the government has ANY say in declaring a "national language".

NOR do I believe they're under any obligation to cater to those who cannot / will not speak /read the predominant tongue.

Let the market forces dictate all.

[IBCoupe]

I like the way your mind works.

The only problem I have is that there are practical implications that one might want to consider. Where Alabama has its driving test prep books printed in fourteen different languages, maybe that's exactly the sort of thing we want to cater to.

If we assume that not everybody who flunks a driving test will refrain from driving, we can assume that people who don't understand the rules of the road might drive even if they flunk the test because it's in another language. For educational purposes, maybe there's a public interest in having non-English-speakers understand how the laws of the road work.

[bigbadberry3]

I may be alone in my opinion but Ithink the US does need one official language. If the free market dictates the languages I see some difficulties that may arise e.g. if the southwest speaks mainly spanish and the rest of the US does not we've got an issue there with communication. In an educational sense english as secondary language (ESL) are expensive for schools to offer. Schools have to provide math,science, history, and english for example for non english speaking students. Imagine the cost to schools hypothetically if we needed 14 different sets of these teachers.

[AZhitman]

If we assume that not everybody who flunks a driving test will refrain from driving, we can assume that people who don't understand the rules of the road might drive even if they flunk the test because it's in another language. For educational purposes, maybe there's a public interest in having non-English-speakers understand how the laws of the road work.

That may well be the case. Still not the government's resposibility.

In which case, again, market forces would dictate that.

Seeing such a need, an enterprising entrepreneur might develop a business plan, funded by insurance companies, wherein separate courses are offered to those non-English speakers... It'd be a win-win:

No cost to taxpayers
Insurance rates decrease
Supplemental funding from advocacy groups
Employs multilingual citizens
Entrepreneur gets wealthy

Very rough sketch idea, pulled straight outta my a$$ on a moment's notice, but you get my drift...

[stebo0728]

Very nice debate here, I am with IB and AZ, let the market dictate the language. If there is a demand for materials in Spanish, then so be it. Let me tell you what will happen most likely within the next century. The english language we speak here will once again amalgamate and absorb much of the spanish language, and a new version of english will evolve. This is what happened of the last centrury. If you take old english, put it in a blender, and add some german, dutch, and a handful of zesty small european languages, mince thoroughly, you are left with what we now call english today in America. This is because over previous century, many immigrants from these regions came here, and incorporated their language into ours. The influx of hispanic immigrants today will have largely the same effect. What we speak as english today will be much different from what is spoken as english buy your grandkids. Of course this is just my prediction and I could be wrong, but I think history tends to repeat itself. American english is agreed by most foreigners to be one of the hardest languages to learn. Japanese is one of the easiest, when learned as a child, when the wrinkles of the brain are still forming. But I cant help agree that we should just vote with our business on the matter, if someone caters to hispanics, and you dont like it, shop or do business elsewhere. If enough people respond this way, perhaps the business will ammend their policy. The free market works if you just leave it alone and quit putting all these silly regulations and mandates on it.

[AZhitman]

The free market works if you just leave it alone and quit putting all these silly regulations and mandates on it.

...and with that, you've become my favorite n00b.

[IBCoupe]

What I was trying to get at was this: people who don't have licenses may still drive, and that's potentially dangerous. The "public interest" I was referring to was public safety. The cost to the public, in that case, would pay for less tangible benefits: you provide driving lawbooks in multiple languages in the hopes that the laws are understood. If the government is not going to have an official language, it can't act like it does.

One other thing: being that the government is required to give proper notice to its citizens before enforcing its laws, it may be legally necessary for them to cover their bases.

For private companies, they should feel free to cater to whatever languages they please and make you push whatever buttons you're willing to push. I don't see government currently stepping in to force them to do anything, but maybe there's a law I haven't heard of.

[dusred]

ahh just do what I do when I am in McDonalds. I start speaking German if I am confronted with a cashier speaking Spanish.

Win!

[Jesda]

One other thing: being that the government is required to give proper notice to its citizens before enforcing its laws, it may be legally necessary for them to cover their bases.

It doesn't have to give any special notice. The open process through which legislation is formally written and passed is considered sufficient.

[IBCoupe]

Fair enough. I wrote "may be legally necessary" for a reason.

[MinisterofDOOM]

The free market works if you just leave it alone and quit putting all these silly regulations and mandates on it.

Language is not a part of any "free market". That parallel is broken. And even if it wasn't, the IDEA is broken, and your suggestion is simply wrong.

Language does not apply ONLY to businesses. It's NOT just a part of some company's bottom line. EVERY SINGLE PERSON on earth speaks. That's how humans communicate. And, as such, it is CRITICAL that there be standards for it. Clear, strict standards. Again, I'm absolutely in favor of a society that encourages its citizens to be multilingual. What I'm not remotely in favor of is a government that's so afraid of offending anyone that it caters to crap like having labels in 7 languages. It's not acceptable, it's not necessary, and in reality it's only doing harm.

The "free market" DOES NOT work in this case. Or we wouldn't have labels in several languages. Having multiple languages all vying for the attention of different groups is not in any way, shape, or form "the free market working." It's as opposite that as anything can possibly get. Nothing is dying off, gaining dominance, etc. here. It's just a whole bunch of different options all competing for the same space with NONE of them losing out despite lesser demand.

We need a SINGLE LANGUAGE ON WHICH EVERY CITIZEN IN THIS COUNTRY CAN THOROUGHLY DEPEND. And that language should be English, because English is the most widely-used language in the nation and one of the most widely used in the world. English is one of the languages of commerce. It is widely, dependably used throughout much of the world. It is the obvious choice for a single dependable language.

Or we could all just go with Esperanto, if we want to be idealists. That language was, after all, DESIGNED for the specific purpose of uniting the world linguistically. But, as with all idealist ideas, it was a realistic failure. No one speaks Esperanto anymore.

There's no reason for more than one language to appear on any product, sign, or anything else. When everyone knows what to expect, and standards exist and are enforced, the language problem stops being a language problem. This is why it is NECESSARY to pursue "silly" regulations and mandates.

I don't want there to be laws in place requiring everyone to speak English. That's unnecessary, and counter-productive. When everything is conducted in English, that problem will take care of itself. Indeed, part of the problem is the very fact that it is NOT necessary to know English to get by in this country. So there's no incentive to do so. Instead, native english-speakers born and raised here are effectively required to learn new languages to allow OTHERS to get by. That's a crock of something really rank. You can't demand that others adapt for you. YOU MUST ADAPT YOURSELF.

I used to speak Spanish reasonably fluently. I can still understand and read it quite well. I love the language. But I'm American, and my native language is English.

[IBCoupe]

A few points:

First, language has evolved naturally pretty well - there's only one truly successful manufactured language, to my knowledge, that didn't arise out of "free market" principles: Modern Hebrew, the national language of the State of Israel. Who's to say that the development of language, especially in a nation of immigrants, shouldn't continue in the same manner? Yes, we have signage in multiple languages, but that's something we do on the presence of those spoken languages. We don't place things in multiple languages so that we regulate the language, we do it in recognition of the fact that those languages are used.

Second, our most important signage is broken down to non-verbal language, anyways. We use symbols that don't need lettering to get their points accross. Handicapped parking spaces, poison, radiation, electricity, stop signs, color-coded emergency vehicle lights. Spoken languages vary from place to place because they have developed in relative isolation from one another (though there are a great many examples of "cross-pollenation," if you will), and so has body language. A wave means one thing in one place, but Allah help you if you do it with the wrong hand in another. Should we set national standards for those, too? Those are forms of communication that are arguably just as important as spoken language.

Third, a language is only as good as it is agreed upon. You say that English is the most widely used language today, but would you suggest that we should conduct regular polling to determine what is the most widely spoken first-language? Should we change our official language whenever that changes?

But really, if our measuring stick is what's commonly used, why do we need to establish anything? Free market principles apply, despite your objections, to the evolution of language. A population will always discover the best means of communication, and it may not always be recognizeably English.

kthxbye