President, Congress offer no immediate help on gas prices

[AZhitman]

ish the few railways that are remaining do make money, however they do so with government subsidies and tax breaks, the other reason rail systems are not totally gone is because the government "owned" amtrak passenger system pays railways for access and use. rail is expensive and costly due to diesel trains and the cost of steel. also while roads can be moved and changed quite a bit to "blend" with the landscape rails cannot really, resulting in more of an environmental impact from a geography prospective.

not that any of the above makes it less cost effective as trucking atm, but it makes it a hard sell to investors and the government for lease rights of land etc.

As usual, Jager is spot-on.

ish, I don't disagree that it appears to make a lot more sense. Unfortunately, there are other forces working in this arena as well... Here's a hint: Unions, and the trucking industry.

Stand up to one, and you're likely to be blindsided by the other.

[wingFeather]

Actually, the fact that we are so spread out would seem to lend itself to rail rather than trucking. At least stuff going to the major cities.

Same diesel fuel powers both truck & rail. Only thing to be saved would be... less traffic!

[audtatious]

Thread on the rail system:

zerothread/341833

[audtatious]

Oil companies don't make windfall profits. I also used to be one to join in on the theory of speculators and hedge fund people. However, after hearing other economists take on it, I am not of that theory anymore.

Economists say having the speculators in the futures market is actually a good thing. They take a lot of risk out of the market. What happens is is that they buy the futures contract and a company can buy that contract from them or tell them to buy contracts. Companies can pile up these contracts. Contracts traded now I believe are due for July. If a company bought a bunch of July contracts at $130 and the actual price of oil when July comes around is higher than $130, companies can get oil from their contracts at less than full market price. What this does is that it provides stability and an outlook as businesses need to know what's going to happen in the future as best they can. I have also learned that the price paid by these speculators doesn't have much to do with the consumer price of oil. But I will say that since speculators and ourselves expect oil to go up, it will go up. Its kinda like inflation--when a nation thinks its inflation will go up, it will actually go up. Maybe we just need to think its going to go down

Read the ICE. ICE articles I have quoted above.

[audtatious]

House Republicans Launch Effort to Force Pelosi, Hoyer to Schedule Legislation to Lower Fuel Costs

Washington - Congressman John Boehner (R-West Chester) today issued the following statement on a discharge petition filed by Rep. Tim Walberg (R-MI) to force Democratic leaders to schedule a vote on the No More Excuses Energy Act (H.R. 3089), legislation authored by Rep. Mac Thornberry (R-TX) to increase U.S. energy production and invest in alternative sources of energy:

“The Democratic Majority’s callous indifference as American families and small businesses struggle with $4 per gallon gasoline is both inexcusable and irresponsible. By flatly refusing to schedule votes on the House GOP plan to help reduce fuel costs and achieve energy independence, the Democrats in control of Congress are proving themselves complicit in our nation’s energy crisis, which is growing worse by the day on their watch.

“Where Democrats refuse to lead, Republicans will. Beginning today, House Republicans will offer a series of discharge petitions aimed at forcing the Democratic leadership to schedule several GOP-sponsored bills to increase production of American-made energy, reduce America’s costly dependence on foreign sources of energy, harness new alternative energy technologies, and lower gas prices. I thank Rep. Tim Walberg for offering the first discharge petition in this effort – one that seeks to force Speaker Pelosi and Majority Leader Hoyer to schedule Rep. Mac Thornberry’s No More Excuses Energy Act. The Thornberry bill will open new American oil refineries, invest in alternative energy sources, and increase environmentally-safe exploration of untapped oil resources in the United States.

“Rep. Walberg’s discharge petition provides rank-and-file Democrats an important opportunity to back up their rhetoric on gas prices with real action. By joining House Republicans in supporting it, they can send a long-overdue message to the Democratic leadership: American consumers are hurting, and this Congress has a responsibility to act on meaningful legislation aimed to bring down soaring prices at the pump.”

[HashiriyaS14]

Let me translate the Democrats' language for the young voters out there:

new windfall profits tax = "You make to much money and we don't like it"

oil company accountability = see above

energy price relief = "We bought too much designer crap and everything Hollywood told us was 'good' and now we can't afford fuel for our Priuses. Waaahhhh!"

hiking investments in renewable energy = "Invest in ethanol. No, we don't know if it'll work, but lots of libbies hold stock in ethanol-producing companies... Just trust us."

requiring oil traders to put down more money to trade in futures contracts = "We know how to invest your money better than you do."

Class dismissed.

I do agree that a tax on "windfall profits" in the oil industry is ridiculous. It isn't going to solve anything and it's unbelievably unfair to the millions of oil company shareholders out there (like me).

I DO support some restrictions on the trading of energy derivatives, but obviously this doesn't mean that I'm somehow opposed to the futures market altogether, because, well, the futures market IS the industry. That's how we price things, ALL things, with futures, but I'd like to see a Nikkei-like set of trading regulations to keep things from spiking too far in too short a time, just in the interest of stability.

I don't support having to put more money down on contracts per se, that seems less than apt. Closing the market down for 24hrs when it has moved more than "x" far in a given direction seems like a better idea....again...like the Nikkei.

[ishkabibble]

Same diesel fuel powers both truck & rail. Only thing to be saved would be... less traffic!

Economies of scale, dude.

[audtatious]

If the rail system can't provide a similar timeline as truckers than it's pretty much a moot point for most cargo.

[ishkabibble]

Nah, time in transit isn't always the crucial factor.

[audtatious]

It is when you are talking perishables. Most companies have also stopped stock piling supplies so it is more critical than ever to keep a set flow coming in to feed the monster. If trains are delayed for days on end that causes issues.

[smockers83]

The rail system is te most efficient way to ship stuff in terms of fuel usage.

[audtatious]

Something like 460 miles/gallon per ton or something (so a commercial says)

[heliochrome85]

yeah, but with AMTRAK having permanently tarnished the name of fast efficient train service in the US, i doubt that this is a possibility sadly. the few times ive taken the train, ive enjoyed it. too bad.

[audtatious]

Probably more important to look at rail for moving goods than people.

[heliochrome85]

what role would the truck drivers union play in such a measure. i would think they would be opposed to it.

[mtcookson]

They would heavily oppose it as they would likely lose jobs. Rail is the way to go though. A couple years ago I was training to become an agent for a truckload carrier and at the time there were 4 full truckload shipments per driver... that's how backed up even the trucking industry was.

I'm definitely for a better rail system as that would really get some freight moving and would be good for us.

[heliochrome85]

it would. what we need is a WPA sort of project structure to get all those unemployed, working. We can quickly reenergize our economy and speed up are withdrawl of energy dependency. If it strikes you as New deal-esque, its because it is new deal. FDR instituted this program in 1934? to combat the great depression. some of our countries greatest pieces of art/music/architecture have come out of this.

[audtatious]

what role would the truck drivers union play in such a measure. i would think they would be opposed to it.

Unions can kiss my azz?

[AZhitman]

it would. what we need is a WPA sort of project structure to get all those unemployed, working. We can quickly reenergize our economy and speed up are withdrawl of energy dependency. If it strikes you as New deal-esque, its because it is new deal. FDR instituted this program in 1934? to combat the great depression. some of our countries greatest pieces of art/music/architecture have come out of this.

Correct, and AMEN to that.

However, look at who would oppose such a "deal: - Unions, and hand-wringing do-nothing libbies who would want those people to get paid "comparable" wages, plus full healthcare benefits and a fat pension.

I'm all for inmate labor / welfare-to-work programs to build the rails, but until the busybodies stay the hell out of it, nothing gets accomplished.

[heliochrome85]

here here on the prison labor, but it does strike a bit of nazi doesnt it?

[AZhitman]

Not at all.

Our inmates have had the benefit of the doubt and are incarcerated due to their behavior, not their religion or skin color.

[heliochrome85]

no i know, but it is in a sense forced labor. thats what i was getting at.

[audtatious]

Not when it's titled "rehabilitation". Screw the movies, TV's, basketball courts and workout gyms. Go work to help out infrastructure as pennace for your crimes. Alternatively, they can get "paid" a pittance in order to help repay those who they committed crimes against.

[AZhitman]

no i know, but it is in a sense forced labor. thats what i was getting at.

Nope.

Make it voluntary. You can work the crew, get some exercise and fresh air, and interact with other human beings (and earn a small wage)....

OR

...you can sit in a cell with no TV, no p0rn, no soda, no cigarettes, for 23 hours a day (one hour for exercise).

Perfectly legal, humane, and fair.

[heliochrome85]

not a bad idea. now, how would you pay for it. most good ideas never make it to fruitiion because they cant figure out how to pay.

[audtatious]

I'm sure you can quantify it. While expense is going to be high to implement, the service provided would be invaluable. Of course, then the arguement is why should railroads get to profit off criminal labor

[heliochrome85]

i agree. so it should be nationalized and operated by amtrack.

[AZhitman]

i agree. so it should be nationalized and operated by amtrack.

[audtatious]

i agree. so it should be nationalized and operated by amtrack.

Amtrak was created by the Gov so you are putting the whole rail system under the control of the Fed Gov which will freewheel it to death.

[Jager]

I forgot something that is rather important and I think its worth noting.

Eisenhower signed the National Interstate and Defense Highways Act of the 1956 authorizing the national governments and the states to create departments of transportations and create a national highway system to ensure timely movement of goods and materials as well as troops and war machines if necessary.

All of the states are bound by this law to create and maintain the roadways we have as well as expand them if necessary. So anyone opposing the roads or the environmental impact statement of said roads has an extremely uphill battle to fight against 50+ years of precedence for roadways.

Due to railways not being nationalized nor there being a railways law or bill of similar power and signed by one of the worlds most powerful presidents its unlikely we shall see a resurgence of railways at this time, however the maglev system of electric trains is a possibility due to its inherent lower footprint and extremely high speeds (track is not powered overhead the power is passed through the track switching magnets at high speed to force a train forward or to slow it down) . i do not think we will see that though due to the vast distances required unless government forces collaborated to force the growth themselves.