Power Steering question: '92 240 convertible.

[09quickly]

I have a 1992 240 convertible that has been on jackstands in my garage for about 8 months. One of the many things I pulled off, cleaned up, and generally tinkered with was the power steering assembly (I replaced the dust boots on each end, re-greased the joints). I recently got the car running again, and after addressing some leaks that I have spotted, will put it on the ground shortly. My question or issue: When I started the car, all wheels off the ground, the steering wheel went nuts. Back and forth very quickly, to the point where the whole car was vibrating up on the jack stands. I turned it off, and after a few minutes, started it again. The car ran smooth, until I attempted to turn the wheel on my own with the power steering reservoir cap off , hoping to get any air in the system out. The wheel started moving left to right again, violently, all on its own. Any theories? Does the front end need to have weight on it when the engine is running to avoid this? All new fluid, and belt is secure.

[AZhitman]

Wow, that's a new one for me...

Anyone seen this before?

[09quickly]

I worked on it again tonight - no more problem. I think what happened was...When I first filled the reservoir to the right level, the entire system did not have fluid in it, maybe the steering rack was empty. After starting the car, the new fluid circulated (very little), causing the whole system to be low on fluid. Re-checked it again tonight, the reservoir was bone dry. I disconnected power steering lines from the rack, used teflon tape when I reattached them (small leaks), and refilled the system. No more steering wheel issues. Next problem: I replaced the oil pan as part of my project, used gray permatex for gasket seal as instructed, and I still have leaks! Hopefully, I can address the two spots that are leaking, because they are good sized droplets of oil coming out and dripping onto the floor. I can't drop the pan again without redoing the WHOLE procedure again (suspend the engine, drop all front end and suspension components, remove the front of engine to get at oil pump so the oil pan will lower).

[BOOMSHAKALAKA]

Wow...that never happened to me before.

[NISTECH]

You were correct. You had a minimal amount of fluid in the system. What fluid there was was jumping around in the rack cavities. Next time you add fluid to and empty system rotate the wheel from lock to lock 20 times while maintaining the fluid level in the resivor. This will help blead a large portion of the air from the system before starting it. Then start it and repeat the lock to lock count maintaining the level. All this is done with the front end off the ground. In 99% of cases you wont hear hardly any noise from the pump if at all when you fire it up.

[09quickly]

I spoke too soon. the violent wheel turning returned, and the fluid level is not going down as I fight the wheel to get from lock to lock. The steering wheel actually turns easier with the car off. I fought it for as long as I could, but I am officially worn out. It finally shook so violently when I let go of the wheel the last time (engine on) it pulled the steering knuckle off of the gear. I am too tired to fight it right now, I will try again Sunday. I also still have my oil leaks around the pan seal - not a good day all around.

[NISTECH]

On your oil leak; You sure its not one of the crank seals?

You may have damaged the valving in your rack the last time it ran with out fluid. With the car not running turn the hell out of the steering with the wheels off the ground. then start it and if its not acting stupid try the stop to stop. If it still wants to do it then shut the car off and try a manual bleed. Just like bleeding brake lines you will need to crack open the high pressure feed line at the rack and turn the steering wheel slowly this may help purge some of the air. on the crossover lines attached to the rack you can do the same thing. Its best to have a helper steer it while you open and close the lines. Just like brake fluid bleed you wann close the line before the fluid flow stops.

[09quickly]

Reference the oil leaks - I can see my pretty new synthetic blend oil seeping out from between the seal and the bottom of the timing chain cover, and at the rear of the pan, near where the auto trans. covers access to the oil pan bolts. It could be the rear main seal, but I am betting on the oil pan seal back there as well (I never did fully trust permatex as the only seal). I replaced the front and rear main seals when the pan was off and the trans. was out.

Reference the power steering - to bleed the system manually, there are two different sized line fittings that go from the gear housing? to the rack. Which one to loosen for the bleeding process? Also, while we are at it; I purchased generic power steering fluid (clear), not dexron trans. fluid, to put in the power steering. I will switch to the Dexron now, but could the other fluid have an adverse effect on the whole system?

[NISTECH]

Reference the oil leaks - I can see my pretty new synthetic blend oil seeping out from between the seal and the bottom of the timing chain cover, and at the rear of the pan, near where the auto trans. covers access to the oil pan bolts. It could be the rear main seal, but I am betting on the oil pan seal back there as well (I never did fully trust permatex as the only seal). I replaced the front and rear main seals when the pan was off and the trans. was out.

All we use at the dealer is silicone sealer and have 0 problems with leaks. perhaps your not applying enough or your pan is distorted.

Reference the power steering - to bleed the system manually, there are two different sized line fittings that go from the gear housing? to the rack. Which one to loosen for the bleeding process? Also, while we are at it; I purchased generic power steering fluid (clear), not dexron trans. fluid, to put in the power steering. I will switch to the Dexron now, but could the other fluid have an adverse effect on the whole system?

I havent personnaly seen issue using the clear fluid over the ATF or red power steering fluid. you want to do the high pressure hose coming from the pump.

[09quickly]

I bled the power steering fluid at the connections you suggested, still no go. Steering wheel goes ape sh_t without anyone touching it. When I do grab the wheel, I have to fight it to control it, it wants to jerk out of my hands. Frustrating, now that I thought I was ready to see if my replaced auto transmission works, I can't move it while it is running because of the power steering!! This is why God made alcohol! I guess I will start researching a replacement power steering rack, unless there are other things I can check.

[09quickly]

Sorry for the delay in updates on this thread, I have had several learning projects going at one time and it has been difficult to get anything done in a timely manner. NISTECH, you were correct. I must have damaged valves in the power steering rack (possibly during the parts cleaning process?) because I tried the lock to lock bleeding procedure, as well as checking to make sure I didn't attach feed and return lines to the wrong fittings. No luck. $294.00 later, I have a NAPA rebuilt rack, and it steers fine. My next issue is the oil pan that leaks like a sieve. I am going to break down and get the right tools this time, namely an engine hoist and engine stand and give myself all the access I need to the bottom of that engine. One thing I have learned while working on this car from underneath, there is no such thing as "that's high enough" when jacking it up and putting it on jack stands. There never seems to be enough room when you are laying on your back. Thanks for the guidance NISTECH, I will post again when I have the leaks fixed. Hopefully, I can do that in a weekend. Oh yeah, it runs great. My transmission replacement took care of my stuck in third gear issue, although I never did troubleshoot the exact problem. I will update my other post in the online mechanic thread RE: Auto trans. stays in third gear.