power steering issue = piece-by-piece new front end?!?!

[masshead87]

9/09 = bought 1996 q45 with 89k

11/09 = slowly develops excessive steering wheel shake and noise from steering pump. first, installed new inner tie rods and boots, around $230. later diagnosed as a damaged front driver side hub. entire hub and bearing replaced, and a power steering flush with lucas oil for around $450. car ran like new for 6 months

5/10 = noticeable noise coming from steering pump again. financially broke so i ignored it at the time (i drove the car very little, i prefer my bike during the summer)

8/10 = bought remanu pump for $170, had mechanic install.

7:30 this morning = get woken up by mechanic, saying "we got a problem. we put the pump in, we got it out on the highway. it was fine for about 10 minutes but then the steering wheel got real tight. looks like you'll need a new rack."

Well, what's the deal with that? The steering wasn't tight with a damaged pump when I brought it in there. I mean, it wasn't buttery-smooth. It just made a lot of noise and sometimes the wheel would jerk slightly when I hit potholes. I have a feeling that either my mechanic (who I trust better than the more egregious rip-off artists out here, but who has made mistakes in the past) is clueless as to what he's doing, or he's just trying to screw me. At this rate, I'll be putting an entire new front end on there by next spring!

So what do you guys think? I'm definitely getting the car outta there today, if for nothing else but the fact I need it to get to job interviews. Does it sound like I need to continue this spine-tingling journey through an entire front-end replacement, or could it be something stupid like an over-tightened nut or air in the line somewhere?

[elwesso]

Welcome to NICO.. Thanks for your brief but informative service history on the problem, that helps a lot...

So other than the pump making noise, the steering seemed to work OK? Usually steering racks dont wear out, they just get really leaky from people not making sure the rubber dust boots stay replaced..

The fact that the pump went in and worked and then the steering "got stiff", im not sure how that means a steering rack went bad...

What you need to confirm is 2 things..

1. Does the steering rack leak (usually around the rubber boots)
2. When you turn the steering wheel (usually easiest with the front wheels off the ground), does it move slowly throughout the entire range of motion.. It should feel basically the same turned all the way left to all the way right.

If those 2 things check out, your steering rack is likely OK... What I need is a little more info on what its actually doing now. Does it seem like the steering is "locked up", or like your just lost power assist...?

[masshead87]

Before this last visit, the steering was OK but not perfect. Sometimes, depending on the grade of the street it would drift slightly when braking. On cold starts (usually just the first of the day) sometimes the steering gutty works would make a chopping noise when I had the wheel turned all the way, either way. Also, even after the new hub and bearing there would be some intermittent, barely noticeable shaking at the steering wheel at around 55 MPH, and as the noise from the pump increased so did the rate of this happening. Even now with the new pump, the steering wheel jerks when I go over potholes, in the direction of whichever tire rolled over it. Turning the car now doesn't feel like it would feel with the anti-theft lock on, but I'd imagine it's like steering a dead car in neutral. It's even more dangerous to drive than when I brought it in, but at least the pump is silent

I have no way to get the car off the ground, but there are drips on my driveway near where the wheel wells are. However, the reservoir was always at full, even the morning before I brought it in for the pump replacement. I never added any fluid.

[Q451990]

Turning the car now doesn't feel like it would feel with the anti-theft lock on, but I'd imagine it's like steering a dead car in neutral.

There is a U-Joint at the interface of the steering column and steering rack. It's a fairly rare failure item, but it happened to me on my old Q, and would feel somewhat like what you describe.

If that long-shot doesn't fix it, I think you need to find a new technician... where are you located? Maybe someone will have a good recommendation for you...

Heath

[Lokim]

There is also a steering sensor on the rack. If that is bad, then the variable power steering will act funny. See about replacing it, it costs a lot less than a new rack...

[masshead87]

Thanks for all the replies and suggestions! 1990, I think I remember lurking the topic of that U joint. Wasn't it the case that if you sprayed some silicone around that u joint the problem resolves itself over time? You wouldn't happen to have a picture of that joint would you? I'll have to check the shop manual.

Steering sensor would make more sense since at this point I'm fairly confident that it's a matter of some connection not being made. I think the only reason the pump is so, so quiet now it that the mechanic botched the install, or maybe the pump itself is defective. He and I had a good screaming match at each other before he let me get the car out of there for $150 (or he'll keep my car and call the cops for yelling, I guess). This is the second car in a year he's messed up worse than when I brought it in. Needless to say, I don't wish to do business with him again.

I don't see how something like a rack could go from functional to completely dead over the course of a new pump install. Does that sound feasible to any of you guys?

I live on the MA/RI border near Woonsocket, RI. About an hour south of Boston, 25 minutes north of Providence, RI. I've got an appointment tomorrow with Shine's Foreign Car Care in Linwood, MA (I'm on the MA side of the border). But if anyone can personally vouch for someone better around the area, please do!

[Q451990]

There's no fix for the u-joint except replacing it... if it's bad, which is pretty rare.

Heath

[PapaSmurf2k3]

I'm originally from RI...
It might be a little bit of a drive for you, but I can say that Pierce Imports in Kingston, RI is pretty reputable. I don't know anything off the top of my head in northern RI/MA.

[masshead87]

I'm originally from RI...
It might be a little bit of a drive for you, but I can say that Pierce Imports in Kingston, RI is pretty reputable. I don't know anything off the top of my head in northern RI/MA.

They've got great reviews but that's too much of a trip for a mechanic, Google has it as 1:10 from where I am.

Started it up to take it to the new guy today and for the first 5 minutes, the steering was like butter. By the end of the 4 mile trip, I could barely turn it into a parking spot. Was told that it may indeed be the rack, but he's yet to call me back with anything definite. I'll keep you guys posted.

[Q451990]

They've got great reviews but that's too much of a trip for a mechanic, Google has it as 1:10 from where I am.

I've driven 3.5-4 hours to get my car to T3 for work! I guess it depends on how good the shop you're visiting is...

Heath

[masshead87]

Well, heard back from Shine last night. The good news is, he's honest enough to tell me that he's not positive exactly what the problem is. The bad news is, he doesn't know what the problem is.

Apparently, I'm going to need a new rack soon anyway, even though he doesn't think that's what's causing this steering problem. As he put it, the boots are full of oil so the rack's just about done. He told me that in his opinion, the best plan of action was to check out that solenoid on top of the rack that Lokim mentioned. If that checks out, he wants to test the computer unit under the dash that controls steering. I guess there's also a valve somewhere in the power steering system that might be clogged, so that'll be test 3.

He pointed out that the warmer the car gets, the worse the steering gets. He also noticed during his exams that revving the engine when the car is stopped seemed to produce a quicker response in steering. He sounded perplexed but not oblivious.

I'm staying as optimistic as possible. I just hope this isn't too much more of a wild goose chase. I had a similar sort of problem with my last car (Grand Marquis) that wouldn't hold a charge. I sunk a month and over $600 into trying to fix it before selling it for parts. The kid who bought it wound up tracing the problem back to a courtesy light in the trunk staying on.

[lino]

I'm staying as optimistic as possible. I just hope this isn't too much more of a wild goose chase. I had a similar sort of problem with my last car (Grand Marquis) that wouldn't hold a charge. I sunk a month and over $600 into trying to fix it before selling it for parts. The kid who bought it wound up tracing the problem back to a courtesy light in the trunk staying on.

That sucks. I hope you find out what it is.

[dana0330]

If you are looking for a good mecanic try Upton Foreign Motors in Upton MA just outside of Milford on 140.

[masshead87]

Well, it's been narrowed down to two possibilities.

1 = In the tech's words, theres a 75% chance it's a matter of installing a new rack and pinion. The theory is that with the new pump put in, the fluid pressure is too high for the damaged rack to handle after a few minutes and thats why there's so much resistance in the wheel.

2 = Other 25% is that the Electronic Control Unit that controls the steering is shot. Which would really suck, since I'm not sure how to get one of those. And even then, it sounds like it would be too expensive to really be worth it. From what he can tell it's working, but there's no telling if it's working RIGHT.

The solenoid, valve and new pump all work fine. I took advantage of Advance's 20% off sale and ordered the steering rack and pinion. Hopefully he can at least start the install by the end of next week. And folks, if that doesn't solve the problem I think the next forum I'll be using is the For Sale page!

[PapaSmurf2k3]

Yeah, I wouldn't think it would be the steering computer. Like you said, the warmer it gets, the worse it gets. If it were electrical, it would just flat out die at some point I would think.

[BCC93QT]

Bartlett's Auto West stockbridge MA literally 50 yards from the end of the mass pike where the NY thruway begins, is where i house my cars including my Q. He has worked on a few early G50's about a decade back but hes familiar with them as well as I. Hes a single owner thats where i do my work. Used to be a diesel mech. so hes got all the huge lifts and bays. All the tools diagnostic crap ETC. just lying around. known him for a few years now and he lets me do my own work when needed. I send most of my good friends down there when i don't have time to help them.

[masshead87]

Got the car back today. It's quiet and it steers. It steers stiff and the wheel still moves a little over potholes, but you know what? F IT! It's a 14 year old Nissan with a prettier body. What the hell am I thinking that it's going to be like factory? So I'm getting an alignment done since Shines doesn't do em, and then all I'm doing is the owner's manual maintenance and running it through the auto spa a few times a year and if the damn thing wants to fall apart after all that shizz, I'll let it.

So can anyone recommend a good alignment shop in the Blackstone Valley?

[PapaSmurf2k3]

Alignments should be pretty standard... there are manufacturer's specifications that they set the car to. They should even give you a print out of what it was when you took it in, and what they set it to.

[masshead87]

Ah me, does the fun ever stop with these cars?

Take my car down to get an alignment last Wednesday. The guy comes out to me and says, "You know your power steering system is leaking really fast, right?"

My power steering system? The one that I just put $900 into and still steers like a steamroller? Nope, I didn't know that. Thanks.

I take it back to Shines, and another $85 later, I have a fully tightened, leak-free power steering system that still doesn't work right. Now it seems I need a new Steering Control Module Computer.

Here's the question: should I bother? I can get one used on eBay for 60 - 85 bucks. It doesn't look like it takes much too much work to install, and I've got a good track record when it comes to working with electronics.

How much work is really involved here? Does it require a lift? Frankly, I can't swing another repair bill anytime soon. And is there any chance of completely losing steering control with this thing being faulty? Because I guess that would be a big part of the decision making process too.