Power Steering Binding.

[elwesso]

Ive had this problem with my Q for a while, and its very very minor, but since I've been doing more hard driving, it sorta gets annoying.

For normal driving you dont notice it, the car acts normally. however, when you jerk the wheel (like when im doing an autocross) or otherwise move it fast, you can move it and then it feels like you hit a brick wall, sorta like the PS isnt giving any assist.. It goes from easy to turn to fighting almost instantly...

Ive never messed with the PS system besides changing the fluid. I havent tinkered with the rack preload adjustment or anything like that, because my PS system seems like its in good shape.

Again, tihs is only when you turn the wheel really hard... Sometimes it will do it more noticeably when cold, but thats to be expected to a certain degree...

PS doesnt make any weird noises, fluid is fresh and clean ATF (changed bi anually for a long time), no leaks...

Any ideas?

[maxnix]

I would check belt tension first. Inspect belt drive surface for glazing.

Also, I would review Q45tech's post abut end link misalignment due to dropped suspension. I think the Z32 extensions will work if this is the problem.

[elwesso]

I just replaced the belts and they've been adequately tightened. I dont hear it squeal so I have no reason to believe the belt is slipping...

Ive always been under the impression that the adjustable tie rod ends are for bump steer, not for this... I dont think its in the suspension, i think its in the steering rack itself. Thats just my initial inclination.

[maxnix]

I thought the now improperly angled steering links might be adding more resistance causing the belt to slip under the additional load, if not binding themselves.

Wouldn't hurt to look at it. A lift would be nice.

[Q45tech]

Try Mobil 1 Syn ATF as PS fluid.At what speed does the problem show up........................study PS assist vs speed graph in FSM.

Note 9 mph, 19 mph, and 31 mph are major pivot points

[elwesso]

I checked belt tension and it seems to be adequate. i tightened it a little bit, but gave up after about 5 mins because it was hot outside. I can still BARELY squeeze under the car to tighten the belt, so i didnt have to put it on jacks.

[elwesso]

Try Mobil 1 Syn ATF as PS fluid.At what speed does the problem show up........................study PS assist vs speed graph in FSM.

Note 9 mph, 19 mph, and 31 mph are major pivot points

The problem seems about the same, hwoever it still does it bad, say at 25MPH in 1st gear. When I race its all in 1st gear, so call it about 3000-4000 RPM its still evident.

This is a problem with my car, because ive driven other Q and its not like that. Most of the time when this happens I am in the 19-31 range.

Do you really think that switching to a different ATF would make a difference?

[maxnix]

Well that and/or a cooler.

Be sure to use some BG seal conditioner (as advised by TexasOil) or Marvel Mystery oil (and change fluid within a year) for keep seals from shrinking due to drying.

Either the pump is overloaded from steering rack hydraulic demands or it is physically binding.

[elwesso]

I really am inclined to think its not an issue with my fluid because Ive driven other Qs without this problem.. my old Q didnt have this issue and I did it the same way. I am thinking this is a problem with MY Q.

I'd like to assume its not fluid, because I realyl have a hard time believing thats what it is...

Ive driven the Q without power steering, and it feels very much like that, so it seems like hydraulic assist is not doing its job.

[Q45tech]

Changing to Mobil 1 Syn is part of diagnosis proceedure.............no improvement with it means changing hard parts next...... or backing off the pinion preload.

There are 15 or so tests listed in FSM report on all of them and we can help with lowest cost triage.

Unless you just want to blindly replace rack, solenoid, pump and steering pressure control computer.

Important to accurately measure steering wheel forces required and tie rod stiffness with a digital [fish] scale.

Normally whem steering gets stiff intermittently the computer/control unit has a heat intermittent or failure.

[maxnix]

If you perform the full blown mechanical fluid exchange through the low pressure fitting, you might find some gunk or detritis that is affecting your valves.

[elwesso]

I wouldnt say its intermittant, i can get it to do it any time.

I will do a mechanical flush with M1 fluid sometime soon.... However I really doubt that will do much... I think that tech is right, it will probably end up being I have to back off the preload a little bit

[Q451990]

Wes,

You mentioned that this seems worse when it's cold. Check the u-joint where the p/s rack and steering column join. Q1's was almost frozen when cold... when it warmed up the car felt almost normal. I suspect it's location being so close to the pre-cat let it warm up after operating the car for a while, and loosened it up. I haven't herd of this happening too much, but Joe sells a few every year so it must not be completely a fluke on mine.

Heath

[elwesso]

That would make very good sense... I will look into that, plus its an easy replacement... Thanks a bunch heath. Do you by chance know what it cost?

BTW, thanks a bunch brian and Tech for the help!

[maxnix]

I think that tech is right, it will probably end up being I have to back off the preload a little bit

Oh....I thought you didn't adjust the pre-load. That is a very delicate operation. Best back off a bit and see if that release the binding. I like Heath's observation also.

If your PS fluid is crystaline, do those first.

[elwesso]

I havent adjusted preload, but I suppose its possible that it may need loosened? It could have been toyed with outside of my ownership.

Like you said, my PS fluid is clean. I take a quick sample every time I check it and it always turns out clean and crisp... I generally have to top it off 1 time every year (goes just below the hatch marks)...

Remember also HICAS models have a lot more PS fluid capacity so the fluid may not deteriorate as fast.

[maxnix]

I havent adjusted preload, but I suppose its possible that it may need loosened? It could have been toyed with outside of my ownership.

Like you said, my PS fluid is clean. I take a quick sample every time I check it and it always turns out clean and crisp... I generally have to top it off 1 time every year (goes just below the hatch marks)...

Remember also HICAS models have a lot more PS fluid capacity so the fluid may not deteriorate as fast.

Well, you can probably look at it and tell if it has been adjusted. Not usually done as most don't even know it is possible. The FSM is pretty explicit on the procedure if I remember. But if it is off, it should bind all the time in even slow manuevers. Sounds to be like your valves are lagging, but why?

Where is your PS fluid leak?

[elwesso]

Yeah Ive gone over the procedure a few times.. Basically you loosen the preload adjustment, move it around, then retorque it down.

I think the firs thing to do regarding that is checking the sliding force of the rack. That would probably tell me a lot. Thats not terribly complicated, as you just have to remove the tie rods from the knuckles and test the the sliding force with a force gauge.

This is actually a great place to start I think... You have to disconnect the U joint from the rack anyway, so if the rack sliding force is within spec its probably from the U joint it might seem. If the sliding force is out of adjustment, then we know it was from the rack itself.

The part that sucks is that you have to remove the fluid to adjust it properly, and the FSM says that the engine needs to be at idle with fluid at full operating temperature to measure the sliding force.

That is quite a tedious procedure, you could play with that all day, doing everything right and still not get anywhere.

I do get bind in slow maneuvers but like i said its only when i turn the wheel quick.

I think i have a few small seepers. The fittings are what seem to leak, I bet it would clear up if I took it all apart and put in new crush washers. Honestly though, it doesnt bother me. The HICAS solenoid seems to be what the worst of it is, and that stupid thing is buried in the engine compartment, i dont think i could get anything on it (tool wise) without removing the motor. The reason I think this is because on the frame and on the sway bar its covered with a greasy film... Theres no dripping, just enough to make it messy!! It probably drips about 1 drip per month, so it never leaves a mark or anything, no even measureable (since it only loses about 2-3OZ per year, not bad for an old car).

[Q451990]

Do you by chance know what it cost?

I remembered it being more than I thought it should be - so I looked it up. P/N 48080-62J11 - $78.48 List / $58.86 Joe Price in 2003. Now $61.75... first time I've ever gotten that part number search to work! http://www.trademotion.com/par...l=Q45

Heath

[elwesso]

ok, so under $100.. I wonder if I could take mine out and fix it up? I bet someone could rebuild it.

Still, for brand new thats not terrible, I can live with it if it makes the car race better. That is really what is KILLING me (and my lap times) when I cant properly turn the vehicle at speed!!

[Q451990]

I thought about trying to have it rebuilt, but decided not to chance it with a critical steering component. Hard to say - probably needle bearings. You will know if it's shot when you take it off. Kind of like the differential u-joints - a little notchy is probably normal, but mine was almost locked - maybe moved 1/4" at most while cold.

Heath

[elwesso]

Yeah, but would yours act normally when you were steering normally but when you were really quick it would act up? Seems like itd be stiff all the time if it was a joint.. I think i should still have the old one from my other Q, i may just give it the ol' switcheroo if the other one seems in good shape.

[Q451990]

Not really the same, but still something worth checking. Mine was more obvious at slow speeds, like backing out of the driveway. But then again, it would get better after driving for a few minutes. I'm just suggesting that you check it... but I'm not convinced that's it either.

Heath

[Q45tech]

Another thing to consider is the system was designed for oem tires and wheels. Wider and heavier wheels and tires will often require some system redesign or adjustment.

[Q451990]

Did you ever figure this out?

Heath

[elwesso]

no i havent, and actually Ive had my HICAS light come on a few times, so it could be related to that possibly?

I cant get my HICAS to go in self diagnosis, i dont know if im doing something wrong.

I dont drive more than once a week or so, its not been a huge priority. School and my bottled friends in the fridge, plus all the adapter plate stuff has been taking a lot of attention from me.

[Q451990]

and my bottled friends in the fridge

Oh man I miss college. Spaten Octoberfest should be available very soon now...

[StarPD]

no i havent, and actually Ive had my HICAS light come on a few times, so it could be related to that possibly?

I cant get my HICAS to go in self diagnosis, i dont know if im doing something wrong.

I dont drive more than once a week or so, its not been a huge priority. School and my bottled friends in the fridge, plus all the adapter plate stuff has been taking a lot of attention from me.

I suspect it might be a pressure issue.My '94 Q45t with HICAS would occasionally do the same thing, but only at idle when the pump wasn't turing fast enough to keep up with a sudden sharp hard movement of the wheel. It never seemd to do it if the engine was running faster though. I never had it checked out, since it only happened at idle.

Be sure to let us know what caused the problem when you get it solved.

[ScottJackson]

Have you by chance tried my pressure valve cure-all fix? I think it may be that valve causing the issue. It's a free fix to try.

[elwesso]

Have you by chance tried my pressure valve cure-all fix? I think it may be that valve causing the issue. It's a free fix to try.

scott I will try that this weekend.... I printed your thread and will try it. thanks.

I have to do an oil change anyway.