Power Fc Q

Post by **jbsr20fiend** » Thu Apr 01, 2004 2:20 pm

Hey all, I just purchased a apex power fc and I had a question about the boost controller. Would it be a better decision to go with the boost controller that goes with the power fc or would I be better off with say a greddy profec b? Any info is greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance.

Post by **jbsr20fiend** » Thu Apr 01, 2004 2:20 pm

Post by **Jala47** » Thu Apr 01, 2004 2:20 pm

Last I read up the GReddy ones where better, then again I am not 100 percent on this.

Post by **jbsr20fiend** » Thu Apr 01, 2004 2:20 pm

I know that greddy makes exceptional products and the profec b is one the best and easiest to use just not sure as whether to keep it all in the family with apex.

Post by **jbsr20fiend** » Thu Apr 01, 2004 2:20 pm

C'mon guys, I know there is a lot of guys here that use the power fc. I just want to know what you use, recommend, etc.

Post by **GraySilvia** » Thu Apr 01, 2004 2:20 pm

If you can find a profec B spec 1, NOT spec II, get one. They are all that is man for ease of use.

I have the FC with AVC-R for boost control. Apexi are smart, you can't use the solenoid from their AVC-R for the control kit on the FC. At least, not without cutting and soldering some wires. I suspect that the boost control kit would work very well, it's just kinda pricey.

Post by **jbsr20fiend** » Thu Apr 01, 2004 2:20 pm

Doesn' the fc have an optional boost controller? Thats the one I was reffering to, but you say the spec one not the spec II. Is the spec 1 harder to find because its an older model?

Post by **180crafter** » Thu Apr 01, 2004 2:20 pm

Hey, im currently putting the engine together, and will tell you first hand if the Apex controller is a good choice. I would keep it in the family, but then you would be limited to the tuning of the Power FC.

You can run a seperate boost controller. I know people who do and there is no problem.

My set up, Im going to use the Power FC to control boost, but then Get the FC Datalogic to open up the diffent parameters of the FC. Hope to give you some ansers soon, as the car has been at the shop for 5 days now.

Post by **jbsr20fiend** » Thu Apr 01, 2004 2:20 pm

Thanks for the reply. I know how you feel with the waiting game. I've been waiting for 6 months for mine now! I can't wait to get the friggin thing up and running!

Post by **AX75F92** » Thu Apr 01, 2004 2:20 pm

The FC boost control kit works good. However using the AVCR in conjunction with the PFC will result in a slightly more aggressive boost curve. Response should be a little better with the AVCR.

Post by **fwd2rwd!** » Thu Apr 01, 2004 2:20 pm

Does the power fc come with a universal program of some sort? Also, is it possible to get rid of the mafs and replace it with a map sensor? Better or worse?

Post by **AX75F92** » Thu Apr 01, 2004 2:20 pm

The Power FC comes with a preinstalled "base map" out of the box. The base map is for a Japanese SR running Japanese high octane gasoline. Its just a loose starting point to tune upon. The stock map is good enough to fire the motor up, tend to any other problems you may have, and putt the car around at low load in order to get to a tuning shop. I wouldn't push the base map too hard, yet I have had friends who have beat on their cars with nothing but the stock PFC base map and no problems.

A'PEX offers a D-Jetro (pressure sensor) Power FC setup for the SR20. Keep in mind, this is a completely different ECU. You cannot convert the L-Jetro PFC to run D-Jetro. The D-Jetro box retails for the same price as the L-Jetro, however you also need to buy two additional sensors required to convert from L to D (pressure sensor, pressure sensor harness, intake air temp sensor, and intake air temp sensor harness). The sensors and harnesses retail for about $300 or so (you figure your Z32 AFM will probably cost that much or more).

The D-Jetro setup really inst necessary unless you plan on making some serious power. Most high power SR's (400-450whp) are fine with the Z32 AFM. Anything more than that and you will have to go D-Jetro. One advantage of a D-Jetro setup is that you get to get rid of the annoying AFM. I'm sure all of us have had to deal with a quirky AFM at one point or another. You can also open up the intake as much as you want with a D-Jetro setup (ie. take off everything before the compressor inlet for a day of drag racing at the track). Tuning on a D-Jetro setup is more difficult so expect to spend an extra hour or two on the dyno. L-Jetro is more precise, but limited. It all depends on your power goals.

Post by **180crafter** » Thu Apr 01, 2004 2:20 pm

Very nice, AX75F92. Great job.

Do a search on the FC Datalogic. I have heard too many good things about it, but it isnt used very much in the US.

BTW AX75F92, is that for the Apexi Turbo? Do you have one?

Post by **240SXer** » Thu Apr 01, 2004 2:20 pm

Spec II sux. If anyone want to trade a Spec I for my Spec II. I'll trade plus i'll give you $100. Good deal. It works fine I just want a Spec I

Post by **AX75F92** » Thu Apr 01, 2004 2:20 pm

Hahaha. Good eye 180. Yup, I have one on its way from Japan for my FD. Cant wait!!

Post by **180crafter** » Thu Apr 01, 2004 2:20 pm

How much man??? I would love one, since I have heard so many good things about their efficeincy(?). I would love to have that under my hood, but that price tag.... Ouch.

Post by **JDM** » Thu Apr 01, 2004 2:20 pm

I was under the impression that a pressure sensor setup was always superior to a mass airflow sensor. The only reason I ask is that the AE111 4age 20 valve motor came stock with a vaccum sensor (Naturally apriated motor's version of a pressure sensor) and temprature sensor instead of a mass airflow sensor and is concidered the most superior of all 4age motors (all others, AE86-AE101, use MAF sensors).

Post by **AX75F92** » Thu Apr 01, 2004 2:20 pm

L-Jetro is much more precise than a pressure sensor setup since you are actually measuring the physical amount of air entering the engine rather than an approximation based upon manifold pressure. Pressure sensors rely on too many variables to somehow stay very constant. This becomes a problem when you start modifying your car for more power. As we all know, more air + more fuel = more power. So what do you do as soon as you get your car? Start trying to make it easier for the motor to breath and take in more air (intake, exhaust, header, etc.). The problem with a pressure sensor is that it doesn't actually account for the total volume of air that is physically entering the motor. As engine efficiency increases, you are actually moving much more CFM of air through the motor. So at any given manifold pressure reading, you will be moving significantly more air (depending upon the mods) than what the stock ECU will associate with that particular pressure. Basically, the manifold pressure may remain similar, but the airflow is increased through increased engine efficiency, creating a dangerously lean situation (hence the need to retune D-Jetro setups as soon as new mods are done). With a MAF you are actually measuring airflow (...maybe that's why they called it an "airflow meter") so you can make modifications to the car to increase airflow and the ECU will accommodate accordingly. This is why cars with a MAF experience problems with open atmosphere BOV. The MAF has already accounted for that air as if it were going straight into the engine yet, it disappears out the BOV causing the fuel injection to by misscalibrated. No such problems with a pressure sensor. Like everything, each one has its pros and cons. It is very hard to "max out" a pressure sensor but as most of us have experienced, it is pretty easy on a AFM.

I'm not sure about the 4AG. Toyota seems to change their revised motors in Japan to pressure sensor quite a lot (4AG, 3SGTE, 2JZGTE).

Why Mazda had to add fuel to the fire and make the FD D-Jetro is a mystery.

Post by **AX75F92** » Thu Apr 01, 2004 2:20 pm

180,

Yeah...The A'PEX IHI turbos are pretty expensive. But in comparison to a lot of other full ball bearing setups, its not THAT much. Garrett GT ball bearing goes for quite a lot as well. A'PEX also uses some pretty interesting engineering techniques in the manufacturing process that help increase efficiency that much more. For me, response was a very big factor. For such a large turbo, the AX75F92 actually spools very quick (especially on a rotary). In my opinion, its worth the extra $.

I am planning on running the AX53B70 on my 13.

Post by **180crafter** » Thu Apr 01, 2004 2:20 pm

Well, response is the most important thing to me also. I could go with a large turbo setup, but thats not what I want.

The Price is an issue with me. I can get the GT28RS for $800 and it is almost comlpletely bolt in. I got one of those OBX manifolds for $160, and welded some extra supports and did some grinding, so tht shouldnt be an issue. Add the Odds and ends, and I still under the cost of the Apexi turbo itself.

I would give an arm and a leg though if I could get myself one of those pimp turbos, even for a little more. Let me know how much you got yours for...

BTW if anyone reading this can get a good deal on these, please let me know. I am considering a GT28RS, but would rather put the money in an Apexi turbo.

Post by **AX75F92** » Thu Apr 01, 2004 2:20 pm

Well. It is pretty much impossible to get an Apex setup for anywhere close to the price you mentioned you are putting together yours for. The Apex sh*t is expensive. But then again, so is HKS and most any other high end manufacturer. There are a lot of far cheaper solutions out there that would work just fine. If you just want the turbo assembily by itself, its not that bad.

Power Fc Q

Power Fc Q

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