Potential purchase of 94 Q45a - looking for input

[bruce.weiland]

Group,

I am looking for more input.

I have located a 1994 Q45a. That is a salvage car. It was stolen and stripped of the grill, all front lights and had a fender bender on the front driver’s side. (I know what to do about the salvage title and have already talked to my insurance company).

I have not seen or inspected it yet. That will happen Thursday.

Here are the paticulars. The car has 67K miles, is that dark purple color with tan interior. All parts have been replaced, fender and paint work done and the interior is supposed to be very good.

The gentleman’s wife is currently driving it. He is asking $7,500 based on miles and condition. That is his starting point and not a firm price.

I don’t expect to see any service records. Is there a way for me to check the active suspension fluid to make sure nothing else has been added to it, other than the approved fluid?

What else should I pay particular attention to?

If the car is as represented, what do you with experience think it is worth now in Dec of 2006?

Thanks for all the help and opinions.

Bruce

[ceningolmo]

After you inspect it... if the car is FLAWLESS... I would offer him $3-4k. That is assuming the car is as close to perfect as it can be at that age. If you find anything that requires mechanical attention (aside from catching up on routine maintenance) you should subtract the potential expense from the $3-4K I'm initially recommending.

Even in great shape... you can't take for granted that all the recommended maintenance has been followed, therefore you will need to spend a few thousand dollars changing all fluids, rubber components, and anything that may be worn from use.

I would bring a turkey baster with you... if you jam that thing down in the Active reservoir you should be able to get a little bit of a look at what the fluid is like. But, I'm not sure it truly matters. In all likelihood you will need to contact Keith and get some recharged accums in that thing. And, even if you assume that the fluid has been treated correctly it would still be a good idea to change out the fluid. You'll know the condition of the fluid based on the color of it when you change the accums.

[bruce.weiland]

Ross, thanks.

Anyone else?

[3Q Jay]

Bruce I saw that one on autotrader.I think 7500 for salvage title is outta sight. no one would pay me that for mine and its darn near perfect as well as up to NICO standards. btw i wouldn't sell for < $12k.

see if they'll let you take it to your 'mechanic' and bring it by--i'll go over it with a fine tooth comb for ya.

Jay

[bruce.weiland]

Jay,

Thank you.

I will be in touch.

Anyone else have additional input?

[Rex]

I think 7500 for salvage title is outta sight

That's high for even a non-salvage, dealer maintained (with records) pristine car.

[elwesso]

checking every fluid should be normal stuff... Check the active fluid by wiping the dipstick off with a white paper towel.. Should be bright green... if theres no fluid on the dipstick, that would be bad sign #1...

If the guy sounds like he knows nothing about cars, he probably doesnt... This can be good, because then the dealer gets to do everything and the car will be nice... If the guy sounds like he knows what hes talking about but doesnt know what your talking about, hes probably a moron..... If everythign he talks about sounds familiar with what you read on here, it might mean he knows what hes talking about....

If you can analyze who the owner is you can get a pretty good idea on how the car was taken care of... I have millions of examples off the top of my head, but ill spare that for you.....

I would have to spend the greater share of an afternoon to feel comfortable about buying a Q....

[Jeff Williams]

The car is worth about $4000.00

Consider, you will spend that much more getting the active suspension in working order, if it is not.

You will spend another $2,500.00 getting all the oil leaks fixed and a new set of plugs and plenum hoses.

You have to remember, the car is 13 years old. Regardless of the miles, everything is old. The leather is probably hard. The brake fluid, active fluid, power steering fluid, transmission fluid, and rear end lube are probably the original fluids put in the car when it was in Japan.

Usually the original owner takes good care of a car like this (he spent nearly $50,000.00 for it). But, most second and third owners drive them as long as they can without proper maintenance.

You might be getting a car that has had no dealer or adequate service for the last 9 or 10 years.

Service records are a must, when buying a used luxury car.

[bullittandy]

Salvage titles decrease value 25%-50% from what I've seen. Maybe the guy thinks that because only a few parts were stripped, it's different from a wrecked salvage car. But its not just what you're buying that determines the price its waht you will have to sell when you sell the car.

[bruce.weiland]

Guys,

Keep weighing in with your opinions, prices and tid bits. They all add up to giving me the information I need to get the right car.

Thank you for your time and expertice.

I expect to see the car today for a brief period and an expanded time frame Thursday.

Sincerely,

Bruce

[Jesda]

I would just pass on the car entirely.

[bruce.weiland]

Jesda,

What makes you say that?

[Jesda]

The Q45a is a great car, but is becoming an "avoid, avoid!" alert signal to used car buyers, reducing its resale value. Add the salvage title and you've got a car worth $3k on a very good day.

Its also near-impossible to duplicate the outstanding factory paint of a G50. Nothing comes close on a modern car until you spend upwards of $90k.

If there are no service records, its worth $2500.

[bruce.weiland]

Jesda,

Thank you for expanded on your view.

[96Qowner]

Yeah, Bruce, that price is just way high, sorry. That is precisely the car I'd like to have and I monitor ebay every day for present value on the Active and all other G50s. The mileage is really nice, but as Jeff pointed out, is doesn't apply to rubber hoses and VC gaskets, suspension rubber, etc - they are in just as tough shape as a 160K mile car. A nice 131K 95 Active with minor system issues just sold on ebay for $2250.

For even $5000, you'd want to know that the engines hoses have been replaced ($1500 or so) and the Active accumulators had been recharged ($2000 or so). The Active suspension system only goes 80K or so before it starts to need attention.

While the car may actually be worth more, comparable present value is only $3000 or less. Even perfectly maintained Q45s owned by loyal NICO readers only fetch $5000, tops.

[bruce.weiland]

96Qowner,

Thank you. Very helpful.

Bruce

[maxnix]

I have located a 1994 Q45a. That is a salvage car.

Enough said. Pass unless they give you money to take it.

[bruce.weiland]

Thanks Brian

[bbdaines]

Gotta throw in my 2 cents.. I buy salvage all the time, and am on my 4th salvage title Q. because I adore them and watch for them in the auctions..

Go to NADA, the low retail is $3,400. + $1,550 millage = $4,950.00 with a salvage title you are normally looking to get maybe $4,000.00 if the car is in very good condition. The salvage title makes the car worth less than low retail!!

The #'s quoted above are for work done in a shop, if you are looking to buy this car and are going to do your own work it may be a good way to get a low price on a great car. These cars are not for the faint of heart, they are expensive to work on and buy parts for, but if you are doing your own work it is not all that bad..

Service records are great, but you can usually tell how a car has been maintained with a thorough inspection. And with only 67 k on her the engine and transmission are good for a long time, the rest of the work can be done over a period of time without going broke doing it...

The last 94Q T that went through an auction in Ca. with a clear title and about 100k on her sold for around $2,500. out the door ( including fees ) $7,500 is outa sight, for that you can get a dealer car with a short warranty.

Anyway, don't let salvage scare you away, but you should be paying below the low book for it..

[bruce.weiland]

Thanks Blair.

We haven't connected on the car yet. I am in KC, Mo meeting with a study group. I will be back in CA Sunday and should see the car Monday or Tuesday.

Bruce

[bmwkiller]

...don't let salvage scare you away, but you should be paying below the low book for it...

I agree, if you're certain the only damage was minor bodywork. Lots of cars are easy to total with just a few wrinkled body panels and a busted light or two. I've owned a few such cars and never had a problem, but I knew for certain what I was getting into, and they were tough to get rid of. Fortunately I got 'em cheap. Such is not the case here.

As others have suggested, I would also look elsewhere. There are too many reasons not to bother with this car. First of all, it's not worth anywhere near what the seller is asking, and in my experience trying to negotiate with someone who is so far off base on their price is an exercise in futility.

Second, the mileage is nice, but we know how long these engines last so what does it really matter? Is it really worth paying a premium for?

Third, there are plenty of Q's still around. Just a quick check of Craigslist and I found what appears to be a nice '96, black on black (personal favorite), 95k, and the owner says 'moving--must sell'. Good sign. He's asking $4500 and he's in Burbank.

Unless you're hell-bent on this particular car for some reason (color, year, suspension, etc), it just seems like it will be more trouble/expense than it's worth.

[Peterofdevon]

I agree with the consensus here as well. There will be many surprises with this car. I used to think that finding a lower milage Q for $3000 to $5000 was a great deal. That was before my last round of Qs. Both of which required over $5,000 (each) to get near "99% sorted out."

Thrown in the active issues and you can add another $2,000 to that. Now if money is no object then approach it from a different angle and think to yourself...do I want this car or can I wait for another---simple as that.

Heck it may have a 100% flawless interior (which is worth a lot to me perhaps not so much to you). No matter what you pay for one you will NEVER get your money back from it---so whats an extra $2,000 or so in asking price? Yous pays for yours passions

But 7K is too high, if you have to have it offer tops 5000, pay max 5.5 -eat the $2,500 over payment as a low milage "a" premium and go to work on it.

I think all of us here would love to have a low milage "a" sorted out. But it will be a costly endever.

Speaking of $70+ cars, you buy one of these and over three years you loose $35K. From that view $15K into making a 94 "a" perfect aint such a bad thing---but you gotta love em. Heck, our G50s look better than any S class 4 door made over the past 15 years if you ask me. I drive my Qs in the land of money on the Phila main line and I hold my head high next to the 7 series and S classes all around me.

Peter

[maxnix]

Speaking of $70+ cars, you buy one of these and over three years you loose $35K. From that view $15K into making a 94 "a" perfect aint such a bad thing---but you gotta love em. Heck, our G50s look better than any S class 4 door made over the past 15 years if you ask me. I drive my Qs in the land of money on the Phila main line and I hold my head high next to the 7 series and S classes all around me.

Peter

Especially when you blow by them on the highway.

The driver's are like !

[bbdaines]

A thought occurred to me, maybe the seller of this car is not delusional about the asking price. He could have bought the car at auction and fixed it up as a keeper.. in other words he has done all the expensive stuff outlined above.. then a guy would have to think about that price, less than buying one and doing it all yourself??

[bruce.weiland]

OK, guys you were right. NOT worth it.

I was hoping it would be worth $4000. It wasn’t. I thought maybe someone had maintained the car, it got stolen and partially stripped.

The CD player was missing as was the bottom engine cover. The power steering fluid was low. Although I haven’t driven a Q in over 4 years the steering felt “way” over boosted.

Engine and trans seemed fine, but the car looked too rough. The guys that did the body work sprayed the whole car. Ruined a good paint job.

The active was flat, flat, flat (therefore, hard, hard, hard). The active fluid seemed the correct color and the hydraulics seemed to work properly, although even at a fast idle it seemed to take quite awhile for the car to raise when the switch was set to the high position.

I told the guy he would be lucky to get $3500 from someone who knew what they were looking at. If someone offered $5000 he should take it and run. He has more than that in the car and his wife likes it. So, it looks like he will get to keep it.

Thank all of you for the assistance. I will continue to look until I find the right car for me.

Funny thing, there was a green and tan 94 Q45a also for sale in my same city just another mile further away. It has about 100k on it and was listed for $4000. When I called on it, it was already gone.

Thanks again,

Bruce

[maxnix]

A lesson well learned. Patience, my friend, patience.

The right car will eventually reveal itself to you.