Possible work dilemma for you guys to examine. Help, please...

[phenryiv1]

I have a situation for you guys to examine:

I am 27, married for almost 2 years, and am living in Northern VA just outside of DC. My wife is still in school full time and should finish up in December with a degree in Accounting. We are both from the Eastern Panhandle of WV, which is about an hour West of where we live and about 75 miles West of where I work.

My education consists of a BA in Government, an MA in Applied Social Research (Sociology for grad students, with a concentration in criminal justice), and soem time spent in law school (hated it).

Both of us wait tables; her about 25 hours a week, and me for 1-2 shifts a week. Most of my $ from that job goes to luxuries- college football games, mods, dinner out, etc. Rent is about $1000 a month for 900 square feet, but like most Americans we would like to buy somewhere in the next year or so.

My main ("REAL") job is working for a company that is a subcontractor for the Department of Homeland Secutiry. I design and run WMD and all-hazards drills for local, state, and federal law enforcement and emergency management agencies. I go all over the country and work with some great people. We did the security layout for the recent G8 Summit in GA, and we are doing both the Democratic and Republican National Conventions, as well as exercises like the recent NYC subway terrorism exercise. I have been here for a few months, and I came from a think tank where I worked on law enforcement policy. I make $37,000, not counting any bonuses. Rumor has it that bonuses range from $4K to 5-figures, even for people in my entry-level calssification. I expect that my wife will make at least that much when she gets out of school.

Currently, I commute between 45 minutes and an hour each way for 22.6 miles to get to my "real" job. My wife and I are considering moving closer to my work when our lease runs out next month- but that is where it gets interesting.

Last week I received a call from a company that is WAY outside of my field. I had interviewed for them a few months ago after being recommended by a friend who works for them. They are a homebuilding/contracting company that builds all up and down the East coast. They interviewed me, then did not acquire the land that they wanted me to work. In the mean time, I got my current job. Now they have called me and want to take me out to lunch to discuss the details of an offer. I go to lunch on July 8, where they have told my friend (because he referred me) and myself (through hints) that the basic theme will be them telling me where they want me to work and to make an offer right there on the spot. My friend makes about 30% more than I do, is in the process of buying his first house (3300 sq ft) and has been out of school for a year less thna I have (2 years). He just received his second promotion, and he gets quarterly bonuses that make my monthly paychecks look small. Also, because they build houses, they encourage and assist employees in buying homes.

When I interviewed with this company, it was with the idea of putting me in a new region where they are expanding. It just happens to be the area where I grew up. Okay, so they picked me for that reason- because I understand local dynamics and politics better than a transfer from DC ever could.

So now I face the dilemma that all people say is a no-brainer- go with the money, or go with the passion.

On one hand I know that I will have a job that I like in a field that I have studied for years. I am GOOD at what I do now, and I hope that down the road my pay will reflect that- but it will not be soon. Due to this, not likely be able to buy a house that is really nice, ever. Life around here is too expensive unless you are in just the right industry. I could always continue to rent, or I could buy WAY far out and have one helluva commute (as if an hour each way is not bad enough). By the way, both companies are solid, reputible companies.

On the other hand, I could switch out of my field, move to a place there the cost of living is much lower, have less of a commute, and make much more money- but it is way out of my field. All of my friends in my home town (very near where i woudl be working) make less than I do, but if they don't already own a house, they are in the process. None of them have a long commute, but none of them do the work that I do currently, either.

I know that this was long, and for that I apologize, but I am a bit torn. Any advice? My wife and I plan to see what the offer looks like, btu the other recent hires with the homebuilding company have been getting around $42K, AND the region where they will most likely want me to work has been offering relocation incentives such as additional housing incentives or relocation bonuses.

Any advice?

[crzycav86]

I say go with the new job. Are you planning on having children? If you are, I would definitely suggest that. You'll need a larger house for them, and more money to support them. That's pretty much the only real logical advice that I can come up with. Remember, with kids, it's not all about you.. you need to make decisions for the good of the whole.

[phenryiv1]

Looking at 2-3 years b4 kids.

A few other points:It is not a sales job, it is doing project management and ovesight on the whole building process: overseeing the subcontractors, scheduling inspections, handling issues with permits, then overseeing any customer changes that deal with the actual construction.

Second, the conpany has been around for about 20 years. They build a lot of houses, and most of them are in planned communities. Most of their communities don't "close" until there is no land left in that subdivision, so they have high customer service ratings, because if someone DOES have a problem, they just go find a foreman working elsewhere in the community and they go do follow-up work on the house.

Regarding quality of life, it will definately be better with the prospective job. It is nto that they work will be better, but I woudl be living in a suburban area with more single family and townhomes. It will be in a quieter area and away from the ratrace of DC. It will also be closer to our families, and I will be working outdoors, not cramped in a small office.

My only worry if that I will look back and wish that I had stayed in the homeland security field. I truly love my work, and I see myself- and my company- making a difference in a way that makes everyone's life safer. The bad thing abot that is that I am definately stuck in the DC area for the long run if I stay in this field. It is the only area where the work is done. I would be a LOT happier if the office was 10-15 miles outside of DC, but it does nto look like that will be the case.

Two things that I forgot: yearly raises here are between 5-8%, at least over the last few years. Also, the management has been losing a few people to competerots, so they want to do a salary re-evaluation on all of us to be sure that our salaries are competetive with others in the same field in this area. Lastly, my team is about to be moved from nice, open offices to a crowded cubicle HELL until we move to a new building within the next 12-15 months.

[TrunkMonkey]

the new job offer sounds a lot less stressful.

-demetrius

[spitz7985]

I'd take passion over money.

[DAEDALUS]

Gad, to have 5-8% raises! Solid 3-5% for the past 6 years here, and each one was above average for my company. Adjusted for inflation, I might be making as much when I retire as I did when I was hired!

Aim for making the new salary in the work you love. You sound like you're in the top 5% when it comes to aptitude and qualifications. Is there no way you could just up and quit, and then hire back in 90 days as a contractor? Way better pay, and better tax benefits. The pay difference does sound substantial...you'll need to find out more though. You don't have to commit as soon as the offer is given...if they say they need an answer right away, I would turn it down. That's unfair. You deserve time to think about it. Unless of course it's for a *sick* amount of money. Then take it. I'm concerned with the rapid rise in construction jobs...if and when the housing market cools off, so will employment in that sector. Not that you should be overly concerned with that. Companies more and more are abandoning the "last to hire, first to fire" rule, as they are less and less "punished" for laying old timers off. Used to be, if you got laid off, you'd have a decent severance package. In the same vein, I would be worried about paying too much for a home right now, or even a year from now, depending on how the RE market in your area has been doing in the past few years. Hotly debated topic, but trees don't grow to the sky, and home prices simply don't have much room to increase in a lot of markets. Also depends on what you can put down. 20% is good in that you don't have to get mortgage insurance, which could be over 10% of the mortgage payment.If you don't mind me asking, what are the homes averaging right now in the areas you're looking to buy? Prices are in the mid 400k in my neighborhood for 60-year-old starter homes.

[C-Kwik]

Well ultimately, you need to do what you want. Tehre is nothing wrong with having a diverse background, but it will be harder to get on your feet if you decide to change career paths later. You may and up taking a paycut if you do. The experience may help, but it depends on how much of what you do might carry over. You have to balance the short-term with the long-term goals. If you are just coming out of school, you are liekly still young and a career change a few years from now would not hurt much. In fact having more money now may get you ahead enough to be better off in the end. But it really depends on a lot of factors. And if you do take more money, make sure it's something you can enjoy to some extent. Nothing is worse than being miserable at a job.

[slw240sx]

seems like 37K really seems low you should be makin 50-60K

try it out learn more about the job, maybe even ask them if you can go out to another site and kinda intern for a week or two with another person that has the position you will be looking at. get a feel for if it. see if its for you or not, who knows maybe youll like it...

[jdmfreak]

Yea try the new job out and see if you like it or not.

[phenryiv1]

I'd take passion over money.

That is my first thought, but as I consider quality of life, raising kids, and being at their sporting events and dance recitals as opposed to being stuchk in traffic, it gets complicated. Of course, my wife and I are 2-3 years away from having kids, but I need to pick a CAREER soon or I will be 35 and still not know what I want to do with the rest of my life.

[phenryiv1]

Gad, to have 5-8% raises! Solid 3-5% for the past 6 years here, and each one was above average for my company. Adjusted for inflation, I might be making as much when I retire as I did when I was hired!

I just found out about the "standard" raise rates. I am interested to see what the bonuses actually work out to be.

Aim for making the new salary in the work you love. You sound like you're in the top 5% when it comes to aptitude and qualifications. Is there no way you could just up and quit, and then hire back in 90 days as a contractor? Way better pay, and better tax benefits.

I am already working for a contractor, so no dice there. I am wondering what the aforementioned salary renegotiation will do to me. If it took me up by a couple few grand a year, I could more realistically afford to stay.

The pay difference does sound substantial...you'll need to find out more though. You don't have to commit as soon as the offer is given...if they say they need an answer right away, I would turn it down. That's unfair. You deserve time to think about it. Unless of course it's for a *sick* amount of money. Then take it.

I will have a few days to sit on the offer. I will be sitting down with my wife and talking it all over as soon as I have the lunch with the homebuilders.

I'm concerned with the rapid rise in construction jobs...if and when the housing market cools off, so will employment in that sector. Not that you should be overly concerned with that. Companies more and more are abandoning the "last to hire, first to fire" rule, as they are less and less "punished" for laying old timers off. Used to be, if you got laid off, you'd have a decent severance package.

This company has actually been fairly slow i their hiring and growth . From what my wife and I have learned (she has read their financial statements) they have taken a slow approach to land acquisition and hiring. This prepares them better for a slow down because they have not overextended themselves with extranious hiring. They may have missed out on a few bucks by not having enough land to support what the market called for, but their approach was to be sure that what they put up was on a solid foundatin for long-term company prosperity as opposed to a slash and burn approach where they threw up too many houses and did sub-par work, thus placing everyone's job in jeaprody.

In the same vein, I would be worried about paying too much for a home right now, or even a year from now, depending on how the RE market in your area has been doing in the past few years. Hotly debated topic, but trees don't grow to the sky, and home prices simply don't have much room to increase in a lot of markets. Also depends on what you can put down. 20% is good in that you don't have to get mortgage insurance, which could be over 10% of the mortgage payment.

RE market in our area is nuts. inflated, btu wht all of the corporate building in the area, it looks like it will level off but not declin any time soon.

If you don't mind me asking, what are the homes averaging right now in the areas you're looking to buy? Prices are in the mid 400k in my neighborhood for 60-year-old starter homes.

$330K for a 2000 sq ft townhome, low to mid 300s for 1800-2200 starter homes. Most homes on 1/8 acre at best.

[phenryiv1]

Well ultimately, you need to do what you want. Tehre is nothing wrong with having a diverse background, but it will be harder to get on your feet if you decide to change career paths later. You may and up taking a paycut if you do. The experience may help, but it depends on how much of what you do might carry over. You have to balance the short-term with the long-term goals. If you are just coming out of school, you are liekly still young and a career change a few years from now would not hurt much. In fact having more money now may get you ahead enough to be better off in the end. But it really depends on a lot of factors. And if you do take more money, make sure it's something you can enjoy to some extent. Nothing is worse than being miserable at a job.

I am 2 years out of grad school. My last 2 jobs were in-field, with the current one being spot-on with my education.

Unfortunately, it does not pay like most MA-level positions. I am more qualified than I have to be for this job, but that is what helped land me the job in the first place.

People with advanced degrees do not seem to have a problem advancing with this company, but I don't know how the pay increases go.

I do know that a lot of people with 1-2 years in the field (who work here) are buying homes, so it is not a pipe dream, but most of them have a longer commute than what I want.

[phenryiv1]

seems like 37K really seems low you should be makin 50-60K

try it out learn more about the job, maybe even ask them if you can go out to another site and kinda intern for a week or two with another person that has the position you will be looking at. get a feel for if it. see if its for you or not, who knows maybe youll like it...

I did the walk-along during the initial interview rocess, so I knwo what they do day-to-day. My buddy also works there, and I go out drinking with he and his coworkers about once a month. They all love what they do, and none of them figured that they would be doing that.

And yes, 37K is not alot. With my education I should be mid-40s at least, but I am not in a position to demand more money just yet.

[phenryiv1]

Yea try the new job out and see if you like it or not.

Big leap of faith there...I cannot necessarily come back to a job like what i have now.

Of course, there is a chance, btu I don't want to take that job and just hope that it works out- I want to knwo that it is a good decision.

It all comes down to what they put in front of me.

[slw240sx]

yeah thats why you take a week and walk around the company hang out on the jobsites learn what they do see if you like it. .

i make 30K with bonuses and im a highschool drop out with a GED, i think someone with a MA should be making triple what i get. companys that tend to hight overqualified personal at a lower price seem to take advantage of those people. they know that they took that job either because they are more then giving of themselves or desparate, i know thats how my place is, i should be making around 40-50K a year with the hours i put in and the stress i deal with,and the amount of money we do in sales a year.

[pgt892]

From your above posts it already sounds like you made up your mind on the other job. It is good for you for all the reasons you listed. You are telling us to help you choose, but I think you already have. Good luck in your future endeavors.

[Rockenreno]

You could always let your current employers know that you are getting another job offer for a significant amount of money more than you are currently getting paid, then explain to them that you really would like to stay if they could make things more feasible for you where you are now (more $, but not necessarily as much as the other guys pay if its a lot more). Who knows, maybe they might actually want to keep you?

[phenryiv1]

You could always let your current employers know that you are getting another job offer for a significant amount of money more than you are currently getting paid, then explain to them that you really would like to stay if they could make things more feasible for you where you are now (more $, but not necessarily as much as the other guys pay if its a lot more). Who knows, maybe they might actually want to keep you?

That is DEFINATELY an idea. I had considered it, but was not sure how to approach the issue.

[DAEDALUS]

I think you should do it, but there are some points to consider. If they don't think you would leave for more money, then they have no incentive to actually give you more. If they do think you would leave the company for more money, then they're more inclined to give you that raise, BUT the downside is that you might develop the label of a disloyal employee. If times are tough they could keep you around and pay you more just long enough for you to train your younger, cheaper replacement. But, like I said earlier, qualifications are qualifications. If you're not a dead weight, that probably won't happen. Hope you get that raise; we all want tactics that work! It's a card I had recently but didn't play when I should have.

[szh]

You could always let your current employers know that you are getting another job offer for a significant amount of money more than you are currently getting paid, then explain to them that you really would like to stay if they could make things more feasible for you where you are now (more $, but not necessarily as much as the other guys pay if its a lot more). Who knows, maybe they might actually want to keep you?

Do this very carefully. There is a fine line between "I think I am underpaid and here is proof" honesty and "Give me money or I am gone" blackmail. Particularly in this case, since the new job is different and may not be comparable in tems of fair market compensation. Do your homework to see if your current compensation is fair market wise. If it is, then you are better off to make the decision without involving the current employer for a raise.

In past 25 years that I have been a manager, and had nearly 300 people work for me over that period of time, it is very unusual for the above to work out well. As Daedalus mentioned, it tends to taint (however slightly) the future working relationship. If your current employer agress to the raise, he/she will might be thinking: "when is he going to do this again?"

So, I tend to react with a "cannot do it at this time" to see what the employee does (though if a salary inequity exists and is way out of line, I will try to correct that). If he/she leaves, then the problem is solved for me (there is no such thing as an "indispensible employee", folks!), and if he/she does not leave, then I treat them more than fairly next merit review time for their loyalty and correct for any compensation inequity!

You would be way better off discussing a salary increase without mentioning that you have another offer in hand. There are simple books available on how to do this right. Then, if you get the increase, and prefer the current job, it is okay! if you do not get any increase (or even a promise to do better the next review time), then the decision becomes a "passion vs money" right now. Think about this: if the new job is available now, won't it perhaps be available some months down the road too?

BTW, there is nothing wrong with looking at an entirely different field - particularly being a few years out of college (you will have time to change back if it is a mistake) - but don't do things hastily. If you have family to consider (particularly kids) the risk factor is always higher.

Good luck with the decision!

Z

[Rex]

Bird in the hand or two in the bush. I think that sums this up.

I'm an "improve my station in life at the lowest risk I can" kind of guy. Luckily for me, I've been able to do this by taking risks without leaving the company I've been with for 15+ years.

If you think you are/maybe underpaid, the best way to get movement (within your positions pay scale) from your current employer isn't by waving the "I might go somewhere else" stick (a lot of good managers know their best people will weigh all the pieces (tenure, pension, vesting/pension, 401k, health care, vacation, sick leave, etc) that play a part in compensation. Those things alone can impact, what is known as, your Total Compensation Package by upwards of $10k. Keep in mind, looking at any open positions at your current employer takes all those variables out of play and you are really comparing apples to apples. This could get some movement out of your manager/supervisor, or help you find a place where you get to continue to work on your "apssion" for more money - Win/Win .

If I had a vote, I'd say continue where you are if you don't feel you're being treated poorly (pay or management wise).

Don't change because the "little picture" looks better, but if the big picture does look better, then by all means make the move and improve your station in life.

[getnrowdy23]

i think you and your wife should sit down and talk about this... maybe make a list of all the pros and cons. all the way down to the gas that you would save... if you still have parents alive in that area, take that into consideration; they wont be around forever. maybe discuss your decision witht the parets.... as many can tell you life altering decisions are never easy to make especially when passion vs. money comes into play and it is not just you that has to live with the decision. talk to your boss and ask them how much money you can make in HLS and see what kind of advancement there might be....