Planning my next project...

[KATwo40]

Well gang, it's that time again. I've built a good solid turbo KA, and it's plenty fun, for sure. Runs great, has no issues, other than running out of gas too early and has been super fun...especially when ya' smoke a Carrera on a beautiful Friday afternoon.

But, I'm ready for a change. My biggest complaint is that, off-boost, the KA is still a 2.4L, gutless 4-cylinder.

So, I'm currently gathering parts and pieces to do a low boost, V8 TT setup in the S13. This will be a budget build, so the two primary candidates are:

Ford 302Ford 351W

The 302 has block splitting issues, that show up anywhere between 450-600whp. I'm a bit concerned about this. However, a 400whp 5.0 will be layin' down probably around 500wtq. That's pretty insane, so I might need to re-think my power goals and just go with the 302. Additionally, a 302+alluminum heads weighs less than an LS-1, fits more loosely in the engine bay and parts are a dime a dozen for them.

The 351W, on the other hand, is capable of MUCH more abuse than the 302. There's the obvious displacement advantage, and squeezing out 500whp from one is nothin' short of easy as pie.

However, the 351W is very heavy, weighing in at 510lbs in stock form. Add a pair of hairdryers to that and the nose starts gettin' pretty heavy.

So, I must make some important decisions, but I'll keep everyone posted as to the progress of the project, despite no longer being a KA-T operation. Once the V8 swap is complete, my fully built KA will be officially for sale.

[WDRacing]

Given the option, go with the better motor. The 351 block is far superior to the 302 block. Atleast in factory form. The 351 will be easier in all aspects to make power with. It will require less boost to make decent power which on the V8 motors is important. The head design lends to detonation far easier then the DOHC design. Make sure you keep this project updated in Hybrids as well. I know its difficult to leave KAT, this is where I spend the majority of my time as well.

I'm going with the GM SB...mine will be faster and better!!!

WD

[NateDogg]

Good luck with your project, whichever way you choose. Sounds like it'd be a fun car, but not a daily driver that most of us require.

With all the turbos, manifolds and mods to get those fords up to par, why dont you just start off with an LS1? Seems more logical to me. NA LS1 still gets decent mileage too...But to each his own I suppose!

[180sx]

I DUNNO MAN . lOOK at weight differencve of ka and v8.If i was you i'd build a high comp boosted ka or swap in VQ.I guess it depends on power goals you have and $$$ available.

[klattr1]

make friends with http://www.turbomustangs.com/forums

[WDRacing]

Good luck with your project, whichever way you choose. Sounds like it'd be a fun car, but not a daily driver that most of us require.

With all the turbos, manifolds and mods to get those fords up to par, why dont you just start off with an LS1? Seems more logical to me. NA LS1 still gets decent mileage too...But to each his own I suppose!

You can buy a entire Mustang for the price of a LS1/transmission with complete harness. As far as daily driver goes, it will be a far better car then almost any boosted KAT. Instant torque throughout a 6000 rpm range...

I DUNNO MAN . lOOK at weight differencve of ka and v8.If i was you i'd build a high comp boosted ka or swap in VQ.I guess it depends on power goals you have and $$$ available.

High compression and boost don't mix. Also, the NA KA hasn't even broken 200WHP yet...in any compression. The VQ is WAY more expensive then a 302.

You guys need to step outside the box. The KAT is fun yes, but definitly not the end all by any means.

WD

[KATwo40]

make friends with http://www.turbomustangs.com/forums

hehe, already on it, bro.

[KATwo40]

You can buy a entire Mustang for the price of a LS1/transmission with complete harness. As far as daily driver goes, it will be a far better car then almost any boosted KAT. Instant torque throughout a 6000 rpm range...

High compression and boost don't mix. Also, the NA KA hasn't even broken 200WHP yet...in any compression. The VQ is WAY more expensive then a 302.

You guys need to step outside the box. The KAT is fun yes, but definitly not the end all by any means.

WD

You hit the nail right on the head, WD.

Spending $3k on motor alone for this KA project is as far as I'm goin' in the "expensive and glamorous" motor scene. This is gonna be a budget build.

Additionally, as far as weight is concerned, even if I went with lower power goals (sub 400whp range) and stayed on the 302, keep in mind...a 302 + alluminum heads is lighter than the LS-1...and the KA-T. So, really, comparing V8 weight to a turbo KA is not a good thing. They come out VERY close lol.

And damn you for usin' a Chevy V8, WD!!! J/K. I considered the SBC route, but I like the narrow angle of the Ford motors. Makes them easier to squeeze in with plenty room for turbos, headers and midgets under the hood.

[WDRacing]

You'll definitly have the advantage of header clearence. A simple manifold flip and you're basically set for a twin turbo setup. I'll have to be a touch more creative, but it will be done none the less.

I like the Chevy blocks alot more. They don't crack in half...lol. Plus a stroker kit is the same price as a regular rebuild kit. I'm looking at a 383 for $969...lol. Thats gaskets, crank and oil pump included. Try doin that with anything that says Nissan on it.

The most expensive part will be the heads. Unless I can land an LT1 setup with aluminum heads from the start. Summit does make aluminum heads now though. Really good price for brand new parts.

WD

[KATwo40]

EXACTLY! I'm tired of payin' $500 for 4 rods and such.

[nismofly]

how much could the 302 do NA?

if it has block splitting issues above 450 ish, why not do one with like 425 rwhp, and natrual aspirations?

btw what kind of stuff will you be using the car for?

[WDRacing]

Its expensive to push a 302 to 425 in NA form.

[nismofly]

ls1 ftw then haha

[WDRacing]

You missed the part where we price compared the entire Mustang Cobra for the LS1 engine transmission set...lol.

[KATwo40]

The block splits because of inertial forces, not boost pressure.

[TheOne]

yeah i've seen a 302 split in half, i was kinda surpriced for a moment there.

either way i'd go for an ls1 + a kennebell setup:), imagine tire eatin, chassis twisting torque.(~7-8psi out of a kennebell will net ya 500hp/tq from 2k rpms)

http://www.kennebell.net/super...e.htm

i know it costs alot more, but ya get what ya pay for right?

[KATwo40]

i know it costs alot more, but ya get what ya pay for right?

Ya' sure do. For what it cost me to build this KA and turbocharge it, I could've already had a completely setup 500whp 351 in the car.

I'm not payin' $5k for an LS-1, then spendin' another $5k for mounting, a trans, a supercharger, etc. It's SBF for me. This is gonna be a clean, well planned budget build. I don't give two ****s about having dyno braggin' rights or anything like that.

[sidewards]

I had a 302 in a 79' ford truck. They rev pretty well for a v8. Too bad they don't get LSx gas mileage or I'd swap for one. I vote 427 sohc.

[KATwo40]

I had a 302 in a 79' ford truck. They rev pretty well for a v8. Too bad they don't get LSx gas mileage or I'd swap for one. I vote 427 sohc.

Please, you can't compare the gas mileage from a carb'd 79 Ford truck to that of a modern fuel injected LSx car. That's just silly. A 302 can get pretty decent gas mileage when fuel injected and tuned properly, despite being a pushrod motor.

[WDRacing]

Anybody even looking in this forum should not mention gas mileage...hello...turbo forum!!! We're here to go fast. I may just start Banning people that want good gas mileage...

[nismofly]

or at least give them colorful signatures

[eazye2000]

Pretty flowers FTW !!

But it was my understanding that it was the 302's that were beginning to be made in like 88-90 to XX had a problem splitting. Didn't think it was the older ones.. But, I may be wrong. My buddy's been a Ford nut for years, and that was something I heard him talk about a few times.

But the 302 is narrower than any SBC or LSx, so

[KATwo40]

That's correct. The older Mexican block 302's didn't split, BUT, they were non-roller engines. The later models had forged pistons (9:1 CR), roller rockers and all that jazz...but they split. LMAO!

[nismofly]

combine non splitting block with all the fancy parts perhaps? best of both worlds?

[KATwo40]

combine non splitting block with all the fancy parts perhaps? best of both worlds?

I thought about that, but then I'm back into the "build a whole motor" price range. This is a budget build project. I'm lookin' at motors with less than 100k miles. The most I'm putting into them for parts is rings, bearings, cylinder hone, gaskets and fluids.

If the mileage is low enough, I won't even put rings and bearings in them.

[TheOne]

where are you lookin for on these lsx deals? a ls1 + t-56 + wiring harness + ecu costs $2400 from a junkjard that likes to charge near dealer prices,lol.

but i guess yer still goin V8, so thats a good thing, not that the ka isn't bad(really, it isn't that bad), torque is just a better feeling.

i've read some about the last 5L's, theyre good motors with heads & cams(i believe summitracing sells a kit that will net ya 350hp without power adder)

[KATwo40]

Around my area, LS1 alone is near $5k! LOL

I'll do some more searching online and see what comes up.

[WDRacing]

Well the 302 will run around 400WHP all day everyday without cracking. The torque will likely be over 400 at some point in the graph as well. Also, with small turbo's, this will be available throught the ENTIRE rpm range...lol.

Should make a very fun daily driver. Another thing to remember John, staying under 500WHP enables you to use lots of transmissions, atleast stock ones. Once you surpass the magic 500 mark, you'll start eating gears, driveshafts, axels and trannies.

Thats the point I'm at in my parts search. I'm trying to land a 5.7 SBC attached to a 4L60 which are the strongest available aside from the 4L65 which only came out in 05...

Auto's don't like 600+ ft lbs...

[180sx]

ok have you ever been in turbo rsx? High Compression and a snail , so they do mix quiet well just size ur snail right and tune it properly. Or feed her alky that will take care of heat.

If you go v8 ur car will be so off balance.s13 is 50/50 front to back,urs will be 80/20. V8 has alot more moving parts as well vs a4banger.So if you ever fix/rebuild you will pay for 8 rods and 8 pistons etc.Those were my primary dislikes about throwing in v8's. Not to get into mounting issues etc.

My preference would be a six like 1 jz.But $ per horse you right just go and rob a stang at a local yard.

[WDRacing]

Have you read any of this thread? Maybe the part where we said the 302 with aluminum heads ways less then the KA part would have been helpful...

High compression and boost are a bad idea, especially when using a in block 2 valve head design which is already prone to detoantion. Can you mix high compression and boost, yes, is it a good idea, no. I can prove this theory on 100 different levels. We're not building a car that has to run on alcohol to enjoy boost. We're building a fun daily driver.

If you use the same octane fuel for both motors, I'll make more power then you will by lowering compression and adding boost. Thats just fact...