piston wall

[esahuque]

I did a rebuild on my motor about 100 miles ago and # 2 piston lost compression. I did a compression test and I had 170 across the board except for #2 it had 70 psi. I added a little oil to the piston and redid the test with the same results, 70psi. So i did a leak down test and I was losing compression through the exhaust valves. Me and a friend went ahead and pulled the head off to get it reworked only to find # 2 piston wall to be wearing funny. Whats going on here? there no deep gouges or scratches and you cant feel anything with your finger or nail. tell me what you think.

[WDRacing]

Looks like the rings wore into the side...

Need a pic of the piston. Could be a cracked ring land or maybe a lube problem. Sucks regardless, what did the plug look like? Hows the head side? Take 1 million pics and post THEM ALL...lol.

On a good note, you can use a flex hone and clean that up pretty easily. Just need to inspect that piston and rings REAL well.

WD

[esahuque]

Thats the thing, I didn't pull the pistons do to the fact that the leak down test showed exhaust valve leakage. then I saw that. plugs look great. the block was just honed 100 miles ago.

[esahuque]

if it was cracked ringlands (again for the 3rd time) wouldn't putting oil in the cylinder and the leak-down test confirm that?

here's pics of the plugs and head

#2 plug



#1 valves

#2 valves

[neverlift]

yeah man I was so convinced it was a valve problem last time I toasted my pistons, had awesome comp across the board minus number one cyl, it was at like 25psi or some shyt, point is I pulled the head and all that work only to see that my piston was in fact wearing a groove into my wall, looked similar, expect to see all your ring lands broken. mine was so bad(I drove the fvk out of it for months like that) I had little melted balls of metal that motor sits in my backyard waiting for me to remove anything thats still good, arp's,cams,what not...

[esahuque]

update, cylinder # 1 looks the same as # 2 but it had 170 psi compression and leak down test showed 7% leakage passed rings.

[neverlift]

man believe what you want you wont know till you pull a piston...

we are all pointing you in the direction we think it is as a community of people who have blown countless kas' and know the signs.

it will depend on exactly how many lands are blown, when I just blew the upper it was oil out the vc/pcv, second time it was real smokey and slight oiling to the plugs, third time it was INSANE oil covered plugs/oily smoke billowing from my vc/pcv and tons of blue smoke out exhaust...

lol I took a head off and pulled a valve that was suspect, it was fine my piston had little bb's of metal in the ringland that melted and were smoothed. I'd bet my bagged lunch for a week when you pull a piston you will find at minimum cracked lands, but chances are its not just a crack, because that looks like when a ringland breaks off the piston and makes wear marks at both ends of the shattered land....

pull one and prove us wrong

[esahuque]

man believe what you want you wont know till you pull a piston...

we are all pointing you in the direction we think it is as a community of people who have blown countless kas' and know the signs.

it will depend on exactly how many lands are blown, when I just blew the upper it was oil out the vc/pcv, second time it was real smokey and slight oiling to the plugs, third time it was INSANE oil covered plugs/oily smoke billowing from my vc/pcv and tons of blue smoke out exhaust...

lol I took a head off and pulled a valve that was suspect, it was fine my piston had little bb's of metal in the ringland that melted and were smoothed. I'd bet my bagged lunch for a week when you pull a piston you will find at minimum cracked lands, but chances are its not just a crack, because that looks like when a ringland breaks off the piston and makes wear marks at both ends of the shattered land....

pull one and prove us wrong

What do you mean " believe what i want" I never said anyone was wrong. I'm going to pull my pistons and inspect more. And i also have popped a few motor's myself so i know what cracked ringlands look like. I just dont see how air from a leakdown test will flow out my exhaust if I had popped a piston.
Modified by esahuque at 8:23 PM 6/18/2009

[WDRacing]

They sell a great valve puddy that helps reseat the valves. It's like a gritty paste...you probably know this.

I sure hope your pistons are fine, but I pulled apart my 165,000 mile KA and it still had the crosshatch on the cylinder walls.

[neverlift]

[esahuque]

Dude, WTF is your problem.

I'm just going off the RESULTS of my test,

Cylinder #1 170 psi of compression. leak down test showed 7% leakage. oil in the cylinder didn't change the compression.

Cylinder #2 70 psi of compression. leak down test showed 38% leakage out the exhaust valves. oil in the cylinder didn't change compression.

So what you're telling me is that I'm stupid because i was diagnosing my problems off the results of my tests. I guess the test that where made to diagnose your problems are useless.

Do you even know how to do a leakdown test? have you ever performed one before? Do you know how to read the results? obviously not, because if you did, you would know that air leaking out your exhaust has nothing to do with cracked ringlands. You would also know that when you have cracked ringlands and you put oil in the cylinder that the compression goes up. but hey I'm stupid, i should never go off test that where designed to diagnose problems. what the hell was i thinking. Thats why i posted pics because the test results did not show any signs of cracked ringlands, and i was a little stumped on why my cylinder walls looked like that.

[WDRacing]

He was replying to me. That emoticon usually means you agree with the person you're replying to. Unfortunatly it's taken out of context alot. If anything, he would be calling me stupid.

The internet doesn't express tone, sarcasm or any other emotion very well. We'd all be better off if we assumed it was meant in a humerous tone. Even if you know the other person is being a d!ck...who cares. It's just some other dude in front of a PC hundreds of miles away. Easier said then done, I know.

When you read through as many posts as I do, you get a feel for someones personality. Josh posts alot in here and I've read most of them. I don't think he's the type of person that try's to argue or attack anyone for the most part. We're just talking...

I try to use a tone that reflects a situation that we'd deal with IRL. I only say things that I'd say to you over a beer in the garage...etc. If I call you a dumbass, then I'd be calling you that to your face. But I'd be smiling when I said it.

WD

[kouki_hmongster]

we understand u Are pretty frustrated. i too have been through a blown motor so i have an idea. but i dont think anyone was tryin to hurt ur feelin or say that u r dumb. GL w/ motor.

[neverlift]

dont get all internet gangsta on me bro, I was agreeing with wd.

thanks wd, I dont need defending bro, I know not everyone takes my comments the way I lay them, if he knew me in real life it wouldnt have bothered him, I say it how I see it. I have done this exact thing and thought for 100billion % that it was valve related, because some gauge told me. Bought everything to fix a bad valve to pull the head and...........wait for it........................................................... OWNED, blown ringlands anyone? Guess what, when you blow through all your ringlands and kill the oil ring setup, oil in the cylinder will not help a comp test. Again these are just things I know for fact as I have experienced them first hand...

sure I dont know how to read one and havent done it because I thought my valves were bad.... I am a kat die hard and will not change unless an lsx or a nice built 4.3 vortec lands in my backyard or under the hood by it damn self, I agree it is possibly a bad valve but the signs are showing US its you ring lands. I love you.... as another kat owner and wont take the frustration you have over your motor to heart btw never called ya dumb, that icon represents that I agree with wd and HE is stupid now I will leave you to whatever is wrong, be it valve piston ring related.... Good luck

[WDRacing]

I am a kat die hard and will not change unless an lsx or a nice built 4.3 vortec

A simple 302 with a twin turbo T3 setup would be cheap and awsome. You can keep the Vortec...if you're gonna swap in a V, it better have the number 8 right after it.

that icon represents that I agree with wd and HE is stupid

Don't make me come up with a new Title

[esahuque]

dont get all internet gangsta on me bro, I was agreeing with wd.

thanks wd, I dont need defending bro, I know not everyone takes my comments the way I lay them, if he knew me in real life it wouldnt have bothered him, I say it how I see it. I have done this exact thing and thought for 100billion % that it was valve related, because some gauge told me. Bought everything to fix a bad valve to pull the head and...........wait for it........................................................... OWNED, blown ringlands anyone? Guess what, when you blow through all your ringlands and kill the oil ring setup, oil in the cylinder will not help a comp test. Again these are just things I know for fact as I have experienced them first hand...

sure I dont know how to read one and havent done it because I thought my valves were bad.... I am a kat die hard and will not change unless an lsx or a nice built 4.3 vortec lands in my backyard or under the hood by it damn self, I agree it is possibly a bad valve but the signs are showing US its you ring lands. I love you.... as another kat owner and wont take the frustration you have over your motor to heart btw never called ya dumb, that icon represents that I agree with wd and HE is stupid now I will leave you to whatever is wrong, be it valve piston ring related.... Good luck

hey neverlift, let me tell you something. You come on here acting like you know everything, with your smart a** remarks like your so sure that you know whats wrong with my motor, and you know what................................................... you where right (yeah, i know when to admit I was wrong) I've pop 3, now 4 motors due to cracked ringlands and I was always able to tell with testing and visual inspection but this time the cylinder walls where not scared up like the last 3 (must have caught it early this time, IDK) but for what it's worth, thanks for the help.

I wonder if going blow through MAF is the reason why i cracked my ringlands. that's the only thing I can think of. I have a tuned ECU with an safc fine tune on dyno and I also have an over boost protector hooked up so I cant over boost (that's how I blew my first 3 motors). anyway thanks for you and WD's help. I let my frustration get the better of me.

[WDRacing]

No worries at all bro. I'm just sorry you've got another bad motor. Had I gone through 3 motors I've not be doing the KA at all anymore. I'm half tempted to NOT be a KAT guy now...lol.

Broken rings lands are from detonation. What you need to do is figure out why you're knocking...and badly. Cause I've had knock without popping pistons...so your's is bad...lol.

I recommend you get the MSD Knock Alert. It's universal and works AWSOME. When I was over on Okinawa, I used that to tune with, before I had anything more then a narow band O2 just for idle tuning...lol. I'd crank up the boost till I registered knock, then add alcohol...repeat.

For you, I'd say it's worth it simply as a safety measure. They aren't that cheap, but they work.

Whats your setup? Lets figure this b**** out before you pop another KA. So maybe te rest of us will have one when we blow up...since between you and Sunny we're down like 8 KA's

WD

[esahuque]

No worries at all bro. I'm just sorry you've got another bad motor. Had I gone through 3 motors I've not be doing the KA at all anymore. I'm half tempted to NOT be a KAT guy now...lol.

Broken rings lands are from detonation. What you need to do is figure out why you're knocking...and badly. Cause I've had knock without popping pistons...so your's is bad...lol.

I recommend you get the MSD Knock Alert. It's universal and works AWSOME. When I was over on Okinawa, I used that to tune with, before I had anything more then a narow band O2 just for idle tuning...lol. I'd crank up the boost till I registered knock, then add alcohol...repeat.

For you, I'd say it's worth it simply as a safety measure. They aren't that cheap, but they work.

Whats your setup? Lets figure this b**** out before you pop another KA. So maybe te rest of us will have one when we blow up...since between you and Sunny we're down like 8 KA's

WD

1st motor= W/g diaphragm ripped and over boosted, maxed out injectors.2nd motor= ^^^^ same thing because I never narrowed down the problem.3rd motor= On my way ti IFO drift event I over boosted once again, this tine the vac fitting to the W/G came loose. got tired of over boosting and put a hobbs over boost protector switch on which cuts spark at 14 psi......4th motor=

My setup:

gerret t3/t4 50 trim, .48 A/R set at 12 psiDeatschwerks 550cc InjectorsWalbro 255 fuel pumpsard FPR, set at 36 psi at idleEnthalpy tuned ECUZ32 maf (blow through set up)Tial 38mm W/G JGS mannySAFC for fine tuning.AEM Wide band.Timing set at 20*DIY over boost protector switch.

As far as I know, I didn't lean out but it may have and I didn't notice.maybe timing moved when I tightened down the dizzy.

[esahuque]

I was just out in my garage look at my motor and noticed something, The guy that I got the motor from to rebuild, put a white mark on the crank pulley for TDC . When I set my timing I must have set it at TDC instead of 20* BTDC going of his mark. Can retard timing cause detonation?

[nelson8708]

if your timing was 20 degrees retarded or set at TDC the engine probably wouldn't run and if it did it would run like crap and probably melt the pistons.

P.S.

Take every post with a grain of salt. Neverlift is being cool and WD is being.....well WD .... lighten up a little

[480sx]

WD is going through the stresses of menopause recently. Try to give him a break.

On the real tho, man dont take this s*** to heart. I know it sucks blowing motors, and that s***s unbelievably frustrating. Were just tryen to help tho. You also have to factor in the online bad a** syndrome hehe, man, were all ***holes.

Your a valued member of the Nico/Ka-T community, you have a lot of experience. You will however NEVER beat my record of ka motors pulled/blown. Sucka
Modified by 480sx at 7:42 PM 6/23/2009

[esahuque]

yeah I know, beatin out frustrations on my keyboard.

I finish pulling out the rest of the pistons ( pulled #2 out the other day, got disgusted and stopped) but #1, 3 dont have ringland damage. it looks like piston scuffing.

Cylinder #1

piston #1

[240sxvaj]

Dang that sucks, how did that happen then? is that from bad machine shop?

[91white_ka]

Looks like you had some cracked ring lands, honed it yourself in your garage, then ended up with some oblong cylinder ways which led to your pistons rocking back and forth and tearing into the walls due to acual piston contact with the walls instead of piston rings........just guessing though......lol

Hmmm or maybe the pistons you used were acually oblong or off in someway causing them to hit the walls.

Either way, let me know when we're putting the motor back together AGAIN...I'll bring the beer

[esahuque]

Looks like you had some cracked ring lands, honed it yourself in your garage, then ended up with some oblong cylinder ways which led to your pistons rocking back and forth and tearing into the walls due to acual piston contact with the walls instead of piston rings........just guessing though......lol

Hmmm or maybe the pistons you used were acually oblong or off in someway causing them to hit the walls.

Either way, let me know when we're putting the motor back together AGAIN...I'll bring the beer

Gee.................. I wonder how you figured that one out, Your good

[91white_ka]

Yeah I mean I don't like to brag it's just pretty obvious that's what's going on here. I would say you best bet is to go ahead an pul the motor out, put your wheels back on. Roll the car out. Put the motor on a stand. Go ahead and tear it down with a friend. Find a friend with a extra set of forged .20 pistons and send the block to get bored.

LMAO

[GODCHSR]

Gee.................. I wonder how you figured that one out, Your good

[eazye2000]

Pfft. I'll show you broken ringlands....



I really don't have anything constructive to add.

[esahuque]

I really don't have anything constructive to add.

Lol. thanks.

My ringlands where not that bad and only on piston #2, my machinist told me the rest was from me honing the block out myself (blown ringlands) and the cylinders where odd long just enough to allow blow bye through in one spot and causing the piston crown to slap the cylinder walls.

I have a new block going out next week, along with a head and crank, to get bored .020 and soon i'll be ordering some wiseco 9.0:1 pistons.

time to just start over

[SiDwAyZ240]

Sorry to hear number 4 is . Just try to think about all the good your doing by doing write ups that we ALL are learning from. Glad to see your staying hardcore KAT