Piston slap?

[davidl340]

Got a 2008 Versa with 11k miles.

When the engine is cold, I get a clacking knocking noise, it changes under load. It goes away once the engine is FULLY warm (probably 10 minutes). It is pretty loud.

I suspect piston slap, have had a few other vehicles with aluminum blocks do this, but not to this extent.

Anyone else notice this?

I think this is excessive, not the 'normal' amount of noise out of an aluminum blocked engine.

BTW, piston slap is when the piston skirt slaps the cylinder wall due to the piston being a tad too small, or a poorly designed piston skirt, normally goes away as engine gets warm.

[Knightro2]

Is like a fast "tick tick tick tick"

If so, it's probably just the lifters...it's common on the V's and other Nissan engines.

[Moghedian]

If I had to guess you probably dont see many cold mornings in Mississippi and are not familiar with the ticking that Northern Versa owners have come to accept. I dont want to discount your theory, just trying to back up the evidence that these cars "tick" louder than any "newer" car ive heard. If I were you, I wouldnt worry to much about it, unless it occurs when its warm too.

[davidl340]

lifter ticking is not load dependent. Your lifters are under the same load when you are reving your motor up at 2000 rpm whether you are driving down the road or not. Forces on pistons are load dependent, reving my motor up to 2000 rpm in park does not produce the noise.

I can handle a moderate ticking / knocking when cold, (my wife's new Sienna does it), but the Versa's is the worst I've heard. If it is piston slap, come on, this is a new car, is it so bad to expect my car to not have pistons that are out of spec. If I were to sell it, would it decrease my cars value if the buyers were to hear it?

[biggie]

Either way, its at 11k, take it to the dealership, its under warranty.

[BBISHOPPCM]

I've owned numerous Nissans with four cylinders; 1987 D21 pickup w/ NAPS-Z 2.4l and 90,000 miles, 1987 Pathfinder with same engine and 175,000 miles, 1992 Stanza with KA24DE engine and 150,000 miles, 1999 Sentra with GA16DE engine with 92,000 miles (1.6l), 2004 Frontier with KA24DE variant and 40,000 miles, and 2007 Versa with MR18DE with 50,500 miles. ALL of these vehicles made the "piston slap" sound when cold... I know what sound you're talking about, it sounds like it's coming from deep within the block and is a "thunk thunk thunk" sound, right? Goes away when you accelerate and dissappears when warm? My Versa is the only vehicle I have ever bought new, and it has made this sound since day one; 50,000 miles later, it hasn't changed, even with synthetic oil. This seems to be very common with Nissans and Toyotas (yes, even TOYOTA engines make noise! Have you heard a Camry 4 cylinder lately??!?) One thing you (all) need to know is that engines built today are not built like they once were; pistons are often cast with far less metal (the skirting has been reduced to almost nothing), to reduce piston weight and increase performance and mileage. The tradeoff? there will be some very minute piston slap in some engines, so some noise is inevitable. The engines are designed with the knowledge that the piston will expand slightly. GM was recently under fire for this same issue, however, they took the design approach to an extreme not tolerable by industry standards; their V8 gas engines actually sounded like diesels!

That said, your noise is normal; just drive the car and be sure to be easy on her once she warms up. But, since you only have 11k, see what the dealer says.

[davidl340]

We'll see. I have to bring it in due to the fuel pressure regulator problem, and a sticky shifter safety interloc button (can't get the car out of park when it is cold).

I do have to say, I like the car a lot, just hope that at 100k, the pistons are slapping around so bad something bad happens.

[Driving Instructor]

Get used to it................

[FHoffert]

I have a 2007 Nissan Versa, 1.8 SL Hatchback with CVT that has developed the exact same problem. It has been very cold in Maryland this winter and the tapping/knocking noise after sitting out all day at work, has gotten so noticeable that others walking by my relatively new car at start-up to go home, stare at my engine and then look up at me as if to say, "YOU HAVE A PROBLEM".

My Versa has 23,000 miles on it, and this is the second winter I have had it but only recently allowed that anything might be wrong with my new car. I am in my late 50's, have driven cars with rod knocks and valve tapping but after a though observation of how the symtoms I am observing act, I am 99.8 % sure it is "Piston Slap". Reading all the stuff on the web, the stories are consistently the same accross all makes and models this happens with, e.g., people equate the noise to a diesel engine. Some experts say that if it really "goes away" in the first few minutes or once the engine is up to operating temperature it is nothing to wory about, but in my case, I can drive 30 miles and still vaguely hear the knocking, so metal is still hitting metal at an intensity a "normally" operating engine would not have.

I took my Versa into the dealership the other day and got the clasic response everyone else has documented on the web from the GM situation and Ford etc., i.e., oh that is "normal" for this engine. That is simply NONESENSE!! We all know why it is labeled normal, but not one of use would have bought the car at new if we heard that when we were test driving it, and analysts say it reducs the resale/tradein value of the care by 4-6 thousand dollars.

I am hoping the cylinder having the problem in my Versa will not continually get worse (as right now it seems to be) resulting in increase burning of oil, reduced gas mileage and increased emmisions. The mechanic at my dealership, after an ardent attempt to get him to acknowledge metal hitting metal to the point of it sounding like a rod hitting the cylinder wall is not a good thing, he eventaully blurted out "Nissan will not recognize this". I told him, thanks for the honesty, that does not surprise me at all.

[BBISHOPPCM]

I hear you, trust me. Is there any way you can post an audio recording of this, or send me one in a digital format? Seriously though, mine has done this since day one. 50,000 miles later, my fuel consumption has actually decreased, and I notice no oil consumption whatsoever. I also want to mention I drive my car HARD. I stop and restart my engine at least 12 times a day in some cases, and as little as seven. I change my oil every 3,000 miles on the dot, if not early. Toyota (the Barack Obama of auto makers) has had piston slap "problems" for decades, and does not seem to have issues with fuel usage or oil consumption...

[Bubs daddy]

Go to the dealer.

[Vahagn23]

Is like a fast "tick tick tick tick"

If so, it's probably just the lifters...it's common on the V's and other Nissan engines.

I have that. its so annoying. Everyone has a quiet engine, mine makes that noise.

[achr]

[QUOTE=FHoffert] oh that is "normal" for this engine. That is simply NONESENSE!! We all know why it is labeled normal, but not one of use would have bought the car at new if we heard that when we were test driving it, and analysts say it reducs the resale/tradein value of the care by 4-6 thousand dollars.

QUOTE]

Issues such as the "Piston Slap" which I have, and the "Clunk In The Front End While Turning" which I have, and the "Incesant Creeking In the Dash When Cold" which I have, and the "Air Conditioner Compressor Which Sounds Like A Diesel Truck" which I have, and the "Annoying Droning (akin to a continuous low sub-woofer note) when cruising around 40 mph due to the extremely low rpms with the CVT, which I have; are all reasons why I am SO glad I took a 2 year lease on my Versa. Not to mention the rodent which entered the heater system and chewed up my dashboard sound deadening material before haulling it into the fan and costing me $322 to get removed.

Well 3 months from today and I'm walkin' away from my first and probably last Nissan. The dealer is a dip$hit and Nissan Corporate cares about nothing but profit. Customer satisfaction be damned. That's too bad because the Versa has, or at least had, a LOT going for it and many of these chronic issues could be easily remedied in production but Nissan doesn't appear to give a damn. They'd rather hide behind their "No Nonsense Warranty" which simply means they take No Nonsense from customers.

I hear a LOT of criticism of Chrysler Products on this forum but my experience has been quite reasonable over the years. My wife's 2004 Sebring has been flawless since new. I also had two PT Cruisers before the Versa which were also excellent. If I thought that company might actually survive, I could be tempted by a Dodge Journey. Over 40 years I've owned Hondas, Toyotas, Mazdas, as well as GM, Ford, and Chrysler. They're ALL cars folks. They're design compromises and NONE are perfect. It's all a matter of taste.

Maybe it's time to try the Koreans. I hear they're hungry for market share these days. The forthcoming Kia Forte looks VERY interesting.

[Vahagn23]

Im thinking of selling the V and getting a charger

[davidl340]

The problem is, what does "normal" mean. It is subjective.

We all expect certain qualities of our car beyond the fact the drive us from point A to B. One of them for me is that a piston doesn't slap around for the first 10 minutes every time I drive my car and make an excessive amount of noise.

I can put up with a minimal amount of clacking noise, but this is excessive, and if I test drove the car and heard it, I probably would have passed it up. Of course, it was warmed up when I test drove it.

I too can hear a very slight clack even when the engine is warmed up, but I'm sure the dealer will call it 'normal'

GM actually rebuilt a brand new motor in a 1995 Camaro we had due to piston slap, I doubt we will be so lucky.

Ebay has used versa engines for around $1000, I suppose that is less than what I would loose on trading it in. If the engine fails, or it gets too loud, I'll deal with it on my own.

So I guess I'll just live with it and learn a lesson: never test drive a warmed up vehicle.

[blockmachining]

In the fall of 1995, Nissan Japan decided to save 18 cents per rod by eliminating the oil jet hole (located at the base of the rod) that squirted oil up on the side of the cylinder walls of the engine which prevented abnormal wear of the piston skirts during cold starts and brief engine operation while the engine was cold. This particular oil jet was only really needed, Japan thought, when the engine was operated in the extreme coldest temperatures so they took a risk. The Smyrna factory protested this decision but was overruled in Japan. The first engine affected by this change was the VG30 engine used in the Hardbody trucks manufactured in Smyrna and the Nissan Quest/Mercury Villager vans manufactured in Avon Lake, Ohio by the Ford Motor Company. This was a huge mistake which cost Nissan over a million dollars. At one point in time, there were so many VG30 engine failures that one out of every seven VG30 engines being manufactured in Smyrna was a service engine to replace one of these "no oil jet hole" engines that had failed in the field. My guess.....Nissan is trying to save money on this engine and they have again eliminated this oil jet. If someone ever has the oil pan off, take a look at the rod and see if there is an oil jet located at the base of the rod (not the rod cap) that should be in line with it's particular cylinder bore where the piston skirt would hit. If this engine happens to be one that is "knocking", you will probably notice one side of the piston skirt is longer than the other and also see witness marks (scratches) on the side of the cylinder bore that has the shorter piston skirt. The al. piston skirt is actually worn away by contact with the steel cylinder liner. One could also do a SOAP analysis on their used oil where there would probably be a higher than normal amount of aluminum in the oil. I really do hope I am wrong, but man....this issue sounds just like what happened with the VG30 engine. As a countermeasure.....I still highly recommend using a full synthetic oil which is not affected by cold temperatures as much as dino oil. If the oil jets have been eliminated, the only way oil hits the cylinder wall is by the splash effect of the turning crankshaft lobes hitting the oil in the oil pan.

[BBISHOPPCM]

Go ahead, exchange minor problems for major ones. Smart idea! Good luck getting warranty service when Chrysler folds and is purchased at auction by JiangChiang motors of China.

[BBISHOPPCM]

I honestly believe Nissan would be smart enough to avoid another massive engine recall. My parents actually owned one of the Mercury Villagers that had the Nissan VG30 engine; it was replaced before they bought the van.

One thing nobody is mentioning is that there have been no reports of MR18DE or MR20DE engines failing. There have been only one or two that I am aware of, but one was owned by an idiot ricer who blew his motor through abuse and the other was a manufacturing defect.

One of our forum members is well over 100,000 miles and has had no problems. I'm over 50k and have not had a problem (and I do have the slight "thunk thunk thunk" sound... always have... when extremely cold). Here is how I see it; you have a 5 year/60,000 mile warranty; if anything was going to fail, it would fail under warranty.

[FHoffert]

Hey BBISHOPPCM - I am new to this forum and typically don't frequent online forums but with this new piston slap thing happening to my otherwise perfect little Versa, I was/am happy to have found it. That said, I read your post on another message trail and I almost felt bad and/or guilty for contributig to you upset. Again I am a newbee to this but the really great thing I feel about this is that there really is some great knowledge, experience and opionion sharing that goes on here, at times in greater or lessor degrees, but I have found the information (including yours) to be very helpful. It is helpful to here testimonials from those who have be aware of and lived with piston slap for 1000's of miles without having it result in any major issues, mechanically at least.

In almost 44 years of driving, and having been a mechanic myself as a younger person, have never encountered this so I guess I have been really lucky. My initial thought was that what I was hearing coming from my engine was a rod knock due to a failed rod bearing and that at any minute I was going to have a piston in the oil pan, etc. Looking into this issue has resulted in a lot of commentary that it most often is nothing to worry about, in terms of a major breakdown and that helps.

To your question about the digital recording, I really wanted to do that before you asked but do not have a recording device so am going to do some shopping this weekend and see what I can find. If I find something that is reasonably price I will get it and make a recording and send it to you.

Best regards,Fred Hoffert

[FHoffert]

Yeah, indeed, "normal" needs to be defined and what some of us new to piston slap are finding is that it is a symtom that has been around a long time, accross the auto industry and we have apparently been very lucky to not have had a automobile with that problem until now.

Some of you may have read the same thing but I found a report on a GM site that was actually funded by Nissan, studying piston slap. The results of that study included conclusions that given the excessive variance between the size of the piston and the cylinder bore, the condition would tend to lead to poorer combustion, fuel efficiency, oil burning, emmisions and of course resale value. Nonetheless, like someone else posted, as yet, there has apparently not been one Versa engine with this condition result in anything traumatic - again, reassuring information.

As yet I have not seen any clear indication that my car is buring oil although there has been a time or two that it seemed to me to be lower than when it was last changed and I topped it off a little, but just a little. In terms of gas mileage, I like keeping track of that and have a record of weekly gas mileage since I started driving it in May of 2007. I typically drive 30 miles to and from work at 50-60 mph on somewhat of a country road, and continue to get 31-33 mpg in the winter and 34-37 in the summer so I really am happy with that.

Best regards,Fred Hoffert

[7speed]

For those who think their Versa's engine is noisy....try driving an old VW 8 valve engine ('85-'98 Golf/Jetta). My '91 Golf has serious valve tick (I know it's not 'piston slap'), but once you get the engine warm, and oil circulating well, it goes away.

As for my V, the only time I've ever heard the engine make noises it shouldn't is when I start it at -20 Celsius or colder, when I've forgotten to plug in my block heater (shame on me, I know).

This is a great little car...and I'll shut up now.

[lordthygod]

kinda only read half the posts but i'm pretty sure its teh S.N.V.T.(Standard Nissan Valve Tick) I livein Buffalo NY and it pretty much does it till the moter is fully warm, just be nice to it till you feel its ready to rock, usually 2-3 miles after blue light goes offAsside from 500 miles on some castrol, ive run only lucas oil till this last oil change when i couldnt find it anymore, now its royal purple
Modified by lordthygod at 6:46 PM 1/27/2009

[fjwagner]

Try synthetic oil. Got rid of all sorts of noises on an old car we had; especially on cold start-up. Synthetic gets into the nooks and crannies much quicker than dino oil. Fred

[BBISHOPPCM]

I'm glad someone brought this up...

I have driven several 1985-92 Volkswagens with 8-valve 4 cylinder engines... I owned two, my sister owned one, my cousin owned three, and my neighbor had one. That engine was the funkiest thing... from the original CIS injection, to the CIS-E, and finally Digifant I and II, they NEVER got it right! The fuel delivery system (injectors included) never quite worked perfectly 100% of the time, the lifters were almost always noisy (CLACK CLACK CLACK CLACK) when cold, they burn oil, they leak oil, they DRINK oil... but ask any VW technician and they will all say the same thing; "German engineering. It's normal." When asked about the good aspects of VWs, (handling, reliability, etc) the response would be the same. Yes, VWs are RELATIVELY reliable... My fully rebuilt 1987 GTI always started and got me to my destination, but it was always a different experience each time.

[davidl340]

Well, after the sticky shifter, piston slap, unusually unstable drive on the interstate, not starting on the first crank, all before 12000 miles. I had enough and got rid of mine.

Never had a new car with this many issues.

[BBISHOPPCM]

These things happen. Some people have issues, some don't. 55,000 miles with the "piston slap" issue and counting... no oil consumption at all. the shifting issue is common on the five speed transmissions, but they will wear in. the "not starting" is a legitimate defect. Good luck with your next car!