Pioneer Avic-z1 in-dash nagivation on '97 Q45

[Q451990]

Here are the pictures...

Definitely in love 'again' with my Q45 - a must needed upgrade for those who love gadgets...

That's an awesome install! I really want to do this in my Q. Maybe next year after I unload some of this pesky real estate that's lingering way too long...

In the meantime I think Santa is bringing a Pioneer AVICS1 portable navigation unit. I figure even if I get integrated NAV in the Q I can still use it in the G and truck...

And even at the risk of more from PMQ, how does it sound with the adaptor? Would you say it's as good as the factory sound quality?

Heath

[pnanda16]

On the sound coming out of the AVIC amplifier through the adaptor to the bose amp and speakers:I don't see any difference from stock HU without adapter and AVIC-Z1 with adapter. To answer PMQ's question (and I don't expect any answer ), I actually liked the 97 Bose sound coming out of the 8 speakers. Yes the rear woofers muddled out too quickly and yes I haven't really lately listened to any high-end alpine sound on an auto, I have been quite happy with the stock speakers. The Pioneer is doing a good job of driving the bose amps. The trick with teh HU replacement is that, before removing the original HU, all the bass/trebble/fader/balancer etc. should be in their 'middle' level before removing the HU. So when the new HU walks in, it can better control the audio levels. And yes, the new AVIC, as PMQ pointed out, has more audio controls with respect to equalizers, highpass/low-pass filtering and many other things!

I will wait for those 10-yr old speakers to crack/break sometime and will go ahead with after-market amp and speakers at that time. Currently healing from the cash burn-out of the upgrade :-).

Thank you for all the good comments! I was showing off those responses to my wife who is still questioning the '$' amount. The way I won that argument was that a new car with those gadgets would cost at least $50K more :-).

cheersPhal

[Romeo5k]

i wish i could win an argument like that... I would still be in the dog house.!

[franknitty69]

pnanada,

i have installed the avic-n2 and the avic-z1 in my 95 q45. i have xm w/nav, ipod adapter, bluetooth adapter, steering wheel remote and the 'fix'.

1) microphone placement was best when it was installed in the headliner. mines is in the corner close to the a-piller and next to the sunroof opening. i tried several placements including steering wheel (in front of the cluster) and to the right of the steering wheel.

2) your installer is mistaken. you cannot just bypass the amps to use an after market stereo. you have 2 options use the line-level outs of the Z1 with the existing bose amps/speakers or remove the bose amps/speakers and use after market speakers (or if $$$ is not object, after market components w/after market amps).

if you would like to use the exisiting bose amps/speakers then you need a line-level adapter. basically you connect the rca's from the Z1 to the input side of this adapter, then you connect to speaker line-level outs to the speaker wires of your new wiring harness. The harness then plugs into the existing radio harness and voila. The Z1 plays thru its RCA to the bose system. Also good line-level adapters have an adjustment which allows you to adjust the output (voltage). The best way to get good sound is the turn the voltage all the way down. Turn the Z1 to 3/4 volume, then adjust the voltage on the line-level adapter til you get distortion. Then back it down a notch. Also make sure you're using a sound source typical of something that you normally listen to. (i.e. no 50 cent when you're a Kelly Clarkson fan).

Another thing the metra wire harness # is: (i went thru 4 part #'s before i got the right one).

3) there are several 'fixes'. the right one depends on what year your avic-z1 was made. Pre 6/06 units can use the flashlight fix (flash your parking light, while you turn your ignition on). This is automated by using a small circuit which i think is a timer of sorts. These can be bought on ebay. If your have a unit made after 6/06 all you have to do is ground one of the pins on connecter 2. see here: http://www.sminntech.com/z1flash.html

4)speed sensor cannot be retrieved from the ecu! you have to get it from behind the console or at the transmission. The ecu's signal is modified and will not work properly. now this might not be true, i have looked at every single piece of schematics in the repair manual. and i have tested this with the AVIC-n2. the head light (dimming) wire can be had from the after market wiring harness that you buy. i got my parking brake from the parking brake switch; but if you do the 'fix' you will not need it. i got my reverse from the shifter; there is a connecter that goes to the reverse switch for the taillights.

Also if you're using bluetooth and don't like the quality/volume here is updated software: http://www.sminntech.com/z1flash.html

and for the record the avic-z1 is the best dvd/navigation system on the market. it beats down the eclipse which is hideous and who's navi software sucks. it might not have the best screen for a dvd player, but who can say they got a navi, lcd screen and dvd player for under 2k. BTW i got my Z1 for $1600 via ebay.

[Q451990]

Do you have pics of the install in you 95Q? I'm curious to see how well the AVIC fits through the double din hole in the center cluster trim...

Heath

[Jesda]

Head units -do- make a significant difference in sound. Quality may be similar, but there's a huge difference between brands in how the sound is shaped and presented.

[maxnix]

i have installed the avic-n2 and the avic-z1 in my 95 q45. i have xm w/nav, ipod adapter, bluetooth adapter, steering wheel remote and the 'fix'.

1) microphone placement was best when it was installed in the headliner. mines is in the corner close to the a-piller and next to the sunroof opening. i tried several placements including steering wheel (in front of the cluster) and to the right of the steering wheel.

2) your installer is mistaken. you cannot just bypass the amps to use an after market stereo. you have 2 options use the line-level outs of the Z1 with the existing bose amps/speakers or remove the bose amps/speakers and use after market speakers (or if $$$ is not object, after market components w/after market amps).

if you would like to use the exisiting bose amps/speakers then you need a line-level adapter. basically you connect the rca's from the Z1 to the input side of this adapter, then you connect to speaker line-level outs to the speaker wires of your new wiring harness. The harness then plugs into the existing radio harness and voila. The Z1 plays thru its RCA to the bose system. Also good line-level adapters have an adjustment which allows you to adjust the output (voltage). The best way to get good sound is the turn the voltage all the way down. Turn the Z1 to 3/4 volume, then adjust the voltage on the line-level adapter til you get distortion. Then back it down a notch. Also make sure you're using a sound source typical of something that you normally listen to. (i.e. no 50 cent when you're a Kelly Clarkson fan).

Another thing the metra wire harness # is: (i went thru 4 part #'s before i got the right one).

3) there are several 'fixes'. the right one depends on what year your avic-z1 was made. Pre 6/06 units can use the flashlight fix (flash your parking light, while you turn your ignition on). This is automated by using a small circuit which i think is a timer of sorts. These can be bought on ebay. If your have a unit made after 6/06 all you have to do is ground one of the pins on connecter 2. see here: http://www.sminntech.com/z1flash.html

4)speed sensor cannot be retrieved from the ecu! you have to get it from behind the console or at the transmission. The ecu's signal is modified and will not work properly. now this might not be true, i have looked at every single piece of schematics in the repair manual. and i have tested this with the AVIC-n2. the head light (dimming) wire can be had from the after market wiring harness that you buy. i got my parking brake from the parking brake switch; but if you do the 'fix' you will not need it. i got my reverse from the shifter; there is a connecter that goes to the reverse switch for the taillights.

Also if you're using bluetooth and don't like the quality/volume here is updated software: http://www.sminntech.com/z1flash.html

and for the record the avic-z1 is the best dvd/navigation system on the market. it beats down the eclipse which is hideous and who's navi software sucks. it might not have the best screen for a dvd player, but who can say they got a navi, lcd screen and dvd player for under 2k. BTW i got my Z1 for $1600 via ebay.

We need an article!

Any attempt to use the in dash microphone?
Modified by maxnix at 10:29 AM 1/4/2007

[KaiinsQ45]

I have the AVIC-N2 in my '97 love it sound wise sounds better than the seock HU due to EQ options but sounds like crap unless you know how to use the EQ on it only disadvantage is when its open you have to hit the button to drop it down to adjust the climate control will post pic of it soon

[maxnix]

On the sound coming out of the AVIC amplifier through the adaptor to the bose amp and speakers:I don't see any difference from stock HU without adapter and AVIC-Z1 with adapter. To answer PMQ's question (and I don't expect any answer ), I actually liked the 97 Bose sound coming out of the 8 speakers. Yes the rear woofers muddled out too quickly and yes I haven't really lately listened to any high-end alpine sound on an auto, I have been quite happy with the stock speakers.

The stock Bose on the FY33 seem a little better to me without the resonance near 440 Hz that the G50 system has, and a little more bass response down low, probably because of the subwoofer. Not bad at all for OEM car audio. It is after all, a car, not a listening studio. Big amps and speakers draw more power requiring a larger alternator which consumes more power and weigh a lot, all yielding a slower less fuel efficient car.

But then everything else is broken on PMQ car, so the speakers probably are also.
Modified by maxnix at 10:32 AM 1/4/2007

[Jesda]

Not bad at all for OEM car audio. It is after all, a car, not a listening studio.

And really, by those standards, OEM systems are more than adequate. Most folks want to put their CD in, turn the volume knob, and go.

I like having a premium system in the car, because at home I can't turn it up and enjoy it without disturbing someone.

[Romeo5k]

I LOVE YOU ALL.. MY girlfriend said she will buy it for me in Febrtuary D Wohhooo...... Yall stay close by... cause when i take it to someone.. i may need yall help.. Acyally... IM used to pioneer radios.. because ive installed like 15 of them by myself... so im thinking i should be able to do this by myself.. i already have almost 2k $ in aftermarket speakers and amp... So.. I think im goot!

[franknitty69]

no, i never tried to use the indash mic. i ripped all the cellphone crap out of the car before doing anything.

i'm away for work this week so i'll post up pics this weekend. i may have some floating around the internet though.

We need an article!

Any attempt to use the indash microphone?

[franknitty69]

Jesda you're absolutely right. i have used clarion, alpine and pioneer. i had surround sound (center ch included) with the clarion. but overall the alpine sounded the best.

i have come to notice that with combined units (dvd + navi) that audio quality is degraded, but it isn't noticeable unless you have high end components speakers for your front/rear stage.

and for the record the factory bose system sounds better than some after market setups that i have heard.

Head units -do- make a significant difference in sound. Quality may be similar, but there's a huge difference between brands in how the sound is shaped and presented.

[PoorManQ45]

i already have almost 2k $ in aftermarket speakers and amp...

Details on said components please

[Romeo5k]

Details on said components please

On the 95 Q ..

Front 2 doors = 2Pioneer A631PRear Speakers = 2Pioneer A6961ERear compartment taken off and inserted = 2Pioneer A6961E

Trunk Has:2 QC15D4 in a Huge customized box.1 Memphis 16-PRD1000.1 (connected to the 2 15s)1 pram1004 (connected to (2) 6x9 and (2) 6.5)1 AVA-CLR60 (connected to 8 tweeters and 2 other 6x9)8 tweeters = no name brand... they are just loud

HU1 pioneer DEH 6800MP ******* Plans are to do away with the 2 QC15D4 ad upgrade to some that are 2500 watts i think. And i think these are gona be made by DBlink. This will require 2 memphis for it to have a good thump. Also plan on doing away with HU and going with a AVIC Z1 and plan on adding a DEQ9200.Then ill be done!... Enough info?

[maxnix]

Enough info?

20Hz - 20KHz frequency and distortion response graphs?

That would be interesting.

[PoorManQ45]

^^^ LOL

That would be interesting.

I can tell you it'd have a very large hump around 40hz and 15khz. LOL

[Romeo5k]

i dont have a measuring thingy so i dunoo all that,.. All i know is, it sounds goot!! and hursts my ears sometimes

[96Qowner]

^^^ LOL

That would be interesting.

I can tell you it'd have a very large hump around 40hz and 15khz. LOL

Heheh, if ya gotta have humps, that's a nice place to have 'em ('course, old guy that I am, I doubt I can hear 15KHz anymore).

But I suspect it's a lot humpier than that. At least the system has enough power. Now, if you could just get that system swept and equalized, it'd sound REALLY good.

I've been out of the business for awhile - do they offer DTS surround sound for car audio?

[Edit] OOoooo, they do! THAT, I'd like to hear.

Digital time alignment also compensates for the placement of speakers, since you will rarely find yourself sitting in the perfect sweet spot evenly placed between all four speakers. This works more effectively than just using volume to control the balance of the speakers. Time alignment uses digital delays; psychoacoustics to fool the ear into thinking the speakers are centered on the drivers seat.

http://products.howstuffworks....e.htm

It looks like there's some great stuff coming from Japan:

http://stores.ebay.com/Kyoto-Exports I like that ALPINE FVA-W306! Mph!
Modified by 96Qowner at 2:54 PM 1/9/2007

[franknitty69]

the avic-z1 does not have delay compensation. you would have to get the surround sound processor for that. the clarion and alpine dvd players have this feature built-in but not surround sound though.

I've been out of the business for awhile - do they offer DTS surround sound for car audio?

[Edit] OOoooo, they do! THAT, I'd like to hear.

Digital time alignment also compensates for the placement of speakers, since you will rarely find yourself sitting in the perfect sweet spot evenly placed between all four speakers. This works more effectively than just using volume to control the balance of the speakers. Time alignment uses digital delays; psychoacoustics to fool the ear into thinking the speakers are centered on the drivers seat.

[pnanda16]

Actualy I did see some configuration in my Z1 that says where I am sitting, 'Center', 'Left' or 'Right'. I am not sure if that means it does provide some delay feature.

But you are right that Z1 has an optional DSP processor that can be hooked to provide DD/DTS etc. surround sound functionality.

By the way, Pioneer just anounced AVIC-Z2, which is nothing but a software update to AVIC-Z1 with no hardware change. We all Z1 owners believe Pioneer will relase a sofware update that will make our Z1s into Z2s. Z2 will be priced at 2250, but i believe you can find sweeter deals on Z1 (1500s) as Z2s enter the market (March). Read all about Z1 and Z2 differences below:http://avic411.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=3585

Small input: Z1 has a display that shows the voltage is is receiving, and under normal load (running car), I see a 13.5-13.7V reading which I believe is a good number and now I have a way to find the health of my alternator from the 'Vehicle Dynamics' screen.

cheersPhal