pioneer AVIC d3, f90, or z2???

[chattowncoupe]

i want the top of the line when i install my system so from what i have noticed is that pioneer is kinda the cutting edge in the indash all in one decks so which is best the d3, f90, or z2...or maybe i missed something and theres better out there...anyways money isnt a problem so lemme know what ya think.

[rjdmmfl1]

cutting edge is a realative term... the new F series Pioneers offer the ability to speak the names of songs you wish to hear, similar to the Lynk in Ford vehicles... but the foilks at Pioneer took shortcuts, and the F series falls VERY short of their target goal... they are full of bugs that have yet to be worked out... don't believe me, head to http://www.avic411.com and see what folks are saying about the F series

the D3 is IMO the bottom line of Pioneer's all in one units, with a number of drawbacks (benefits yes, but drawbacks none the less)

lastly, the Z3 is the top of the line all in one pioneer unit , fo all intents and purposes...

I could go on about the benefits and drawbacks of the Z3, but to name a few of the drawbacks

1. pioneer's attention on quality audio has been on the decline since the AVH-p7500dvd was released... this unit had 5 volt preouts, built in audio processor, built in TV, etc.... no pioneer unit has been this complete since.. granted, these were out before the days of ipods and XM radio and what not, so thpose features are not available on this older unit.... with that said, the Z3 lacks all of the above and leaves much to be desired SQ wise, falling behind both Alpine and Kenwood regarding top of the line all in one units

2. All pioneers suffer from really bad navigation accuracy compared to say Garmin or factory vehicle Navigation units... it will tell you you've arrived 6 or 7 houses befpre you actually get there.. it locates down to a range of like 100 -300 yards or so, whereas the kenwood garmin GPS satelites are accurate to about 2 meters.

those are the biggest down regarding pioneer's Z3 units... the biggest positive is the fact that these units have the best navigation options/screens in the business..... they have about 6 or 7 different ways to view a route including a nice bird's eye view, split screen view (watching the rear camera and navi at the same time). and not to mention the awesome 3D POI icons.... for many, that alone is worth getting the Avic Z3.. but for performance, the hottest thing out right now is the Kenwood DNX-8120
Modified by rjdmmfl1 at 5:25 PM 9/16/2008

[AppleBonker]

I agree with Doc here. I love my Alpine (IVA-W205, the 505 is the newer replacement for my model), but only because I use it with the H701 audio processor (which probably isn't needed for about 99% of users). If I was going to pick a unit, I would probably stick with the Alpine W505 or the Kenwood 8120. Without the audio processor, I think the Kenwood wins hands down. Search and you'll find the thread Doc started when he installed his 8120. You'll see that there are a ton of features and it outperforms the Pioneer units. This is just my opinion, but I would easily spend hundreds more on the Kenwood than a comparable Pioneer unit.

[chattowncoupe]

yeah im lookin at the kenwood and it is a few hundred more than the pioneer but from the info given since the kenwood gps is powerd by garmin that is worth the extra money by itself cuz right now i just use the gps on my cell phone when i go on business trips and what not and its way off like 500-700 yards or so...so since i will be using the gps frequently id like it to be the best gps i can get and with all the audio quality features i see on the kenwood its obviously is worth the extra coin...and it wont really be pushing too much im just transferring over my 2 fogate p3s and the 1500 watt amp from my last car(which i rarely use unless im just showin off)...gotta find a place to make a nice custom box for my a/c tho so i wont lose too much trunk space.

[ESP]

Audio gurus:How well do these double-din touch screen wonders hold up in freezing temperatures? The LCD screen in all my previous HUs (all single-din) would get really slow and sluggish in our lovely -40 weather. Granted, that kind of weather lasts for one, maybe two, weeks max...but on such a large screen would it have any long-term negative effects?

[AppleBonker]

Audio gurus:How well do these double-din touch screen wonders hold up in freezing temperatures? The LCD screen in all my previous HUs (all single-din) would get really slow and sluggish in our lovely -40 weather. Granted, that kind of weather lasts for one, maybe two, weeks max...but on such a large screen would it have any long-term negative effects?

I've had mine go temporarily goofy during super frigid temps, but once it warms up it goes back to functioning as normal. I can't imagine that it's entirely good on the screen, but I've never noticed any long-lasting effects. I'm sure if you froze the thing for like 12 months and tried to use it again it might have problems.

[rjdmmfl1]

Audio gurus:How well do these double-din touch screen wonders hold up in freezing temperatures? The LCD screen in all my previous HUs (all single-din) would get really slow and sluggish in our lovely -40 weather. Granted, that kind of weather lasts for one, maybe two, weeks max...but on such a large screen would it have any long-term negative effects?

my guess would be that the Z3 would perform the worst due to the built in hard drive... it was having issues before the firmware update was released regarding freezing on start up... add Canadian tmperatures to it and who knows what you would get!

[AppleBonker]

my guess would be that the Z3 would perform the worst due to the built in hard drive... it was having issues before the firmware update was released regarding freezing on start up... add Canadian tmperatures to it and who knows what you would get!

I don't think super cold temps should adversely affect a hard drive. The LCD screens will be affect due to the cold temps restricting the speed at which the crystals can change orientation, but a hard drive should be ok. I doubt the temps would affect one brand more than another (granted, if one brand uses a super cheap LCD panel, it might be more of an issue, but I'm pretty sure they all use relatively inexpensive panels). Obviously, this is all theoretical speak and I honestly would have no idea until I tested these theories.

[rjdmmfl1]

I don't think super cold temps should adversely affect a hard drive. The LCD screens will be affect due to the cold temps restricting the speed at which the crystals can change orientation, but a hard drive should be ok. I doubt the temps would affect one brand more than another (granted, if one brand uses a super cheap LCD panel, it might be more of an issue, but I'm pretty sure they all use relatively inexpensive panels). Obviously, this is all theoretical speak and I honestly would have no idea until I tested these theories.

This was the firware released by Pioneer for the Avic Z series with the hard drive

http://avic411.com/?p=7

not sure why, but for some reason, Pioneer stated that the units would freeze up under hot conditions... I just assumed that the same issues would happen under extreme cold temps also...

2 b honest, Pioneer has been on the decline for the last 5-6 years!

[ESP]

2 b honest, Pioneer has been on the decline for the last 5-6 years!

...so I've heard (mostly from you!).I'm planning a road trip along the west coast next November (my honeymoon, actually!) and want a good GPS to guide us on our way. In the larger cities, is there really that much of a difference between the 6mil POI and 12mil POI (D3 vs DNX-8120) or is that more noticeable in smaller towns and such?

[rjdmmfl1]

...so I've heard (mostly from you!).I'm planning a road trip along the west coast next November (my honeymoon, actually!) and want a good GPS to guide us on our way. In the larger cities, is there really that much of a difference between the 6mil POI and 12mil POI (D3 vs DNX-8120) or is that more noticeable in smaller towns and such?

absolutely... i hate the 6 million poi's in the kenwood units.... biggest disappointment of these units

[ESP]

Egh...is there any way to upload more to the flash memory (from some kind of database or something)? That's the only thing that's detracting me from the Kenwood. I've never driven around LA before and I'd like to know the unit I'm using is at least reasonably accurate and resourceful...

[rjdmmfl1]

Egh...is there any way to upload more to the flash memory (from some kind of database or something)? That's the only thing that's detracting me from the Kenwood. I've never driven around LA before and I'd like to know the unit I'm using is at least reasonably accurate and resourceful...

well as far as accurate, its more accurate than pioneer... by far... actually, 6 million POI is the standard for all units (Factory, Kenwood, Alpine, Tom Tom, Garmin) its just that because Pioneer uses like 10 GB for its navigation, it can have a lot more POI's than other companies.

The positive is that , with Kenwood units, you can constantly update your navigation vis the built in SD card slot for free! Also, you can add custom POI's! The number of POI's is the ONLy thing the pioneer units have over other companies!

[ESP]

Cool beans. Sounds like I'm sold on the Kenwood then! Thanks for all your help (again!)

[marlin29311]

Audio gurus:How well do these double-din touch screen wonders hold up in freezing temperatures? The LCD screen in all my previous HUs (all single-din) would get really slow and sluggish in our lovely -40 weather. Granted, that kind of weather lasts for one, maybe two, weeks max...but on such a large screen would it have any long-term negative effects?

Speaking from a completly computer standpoint, your LCD won't have any long term damage from the cold weather. The reason your screen is sluggish is because in the cold, the liquid molecules take longer to reform into whatever it is you are displaying (lcd's work based on constantly rearraging liquid particles into new formations). Cold weather just means it takes longer for the particles to move around. Also, leaving it in the cold for long periods of time should have no effect on the lcd screen, but the cold can have adverse effects on other electrical circuitry...

The harddrives have issues in extreme temperatures because of the moving internal parts used to read data of the magnetic disks that store all the information. Cold weather can freeze the disks and sometimes potentially damage the read/write head, and hot weather can sometimes force the disks to overheat, making it difficult for the head to read the data.

Not playing towards any product, I would take something that works based off flash memory or DVD-rom (this is purely from an extreme weather standpoint).

[rjdmmfl1]

Speaking from a completly computer standpoint, your LCD won't have any long term damage from the cold weather. The reason your screen is sluggish is because in the cold, the liquid molecules take longer to reform into whatever it is you are displaying (lcd's work based on constantly rearraging liquid particles into new formations). Cold weather just means it takes longer for the particles to move around. Also, leaving it in the cold for long periods of time should have no effect on the lcd screen, but the cold can have adverse effects on other electrical circuitry...

The harddrives have issues in extreme temperatures because of the moving internal parts used to read data of the magnetic disks that store all the information. Cold weather can freeze the disks and sometimes potentially damage the read/write head, and hot weather can sometimes force the disks to overheat, making it difficult for the head to read the data.

Not playing towards any product, I would take something that works based off flash memory or DVD-rom (this is purely from an extreme weather standpoint).

All good points .. thanks for explaining that to us... this is why its great having such a diverse population of folks on NICO!!!

[ESP]

Yeah, thanks Marlin.

I knew about the reasons for the sluggishness, just wasn't sure about whether or not it had any lasting effects. For example, is the liquid crystal actually a "liquid" in the technical sense of the term? If so, then doesn't it stand to reason that the rapid expansion and contraction of the molecules under changing temperature conditions can possibly "burst" or something? I might be completely out to lunch on that though........

Good point about the hard drives...something which I hadn't really considered! The Kenwood operates with a flash drive, right? That could also explain why it's so much faster than the Pioneers (other than their bugginess)! Solid-state drives FTW!!!

[marlin29311]

It's kind of a liquid, but kind of a solid....it's wierd. It's liquid in the sense that it is relatively easy for the molecules to rearrange, but solid in the sense that it doesn't move out of the mold....

If you were to take it from -40 to 120 in like, 3 seconds, you would probably do some damage...lol

Otherwise, there are no real issues with damage to the actual lcd screen itself from temperature, suffice to say you aren't getting them to their freezing or vaporizing points...

and solid state drives - they are better, but an inherent issue with flash memory is the fact that it actually "dies" over time. After so many read/writes, the memory actually contracts and can die off after time. I remember hearing the average life of an iPod with flash memory was like, 5 year of regular listening. Of course this is older and the tech has become better, but longevity is not on flash memory's side. On the other hand, are you going to be using your system after 5+ years?

[AppleBonker]

Thankfully we have marlin as our resident computer expert!

On the other hand, are you going to be using your system after 5+ years?

Actually though, I've been running the same hard drives for over 5 years (got two WD raptors running striped). As long as they are still running, I'm gonna keep them. Can't find too many other options to go faster (unless I come up with a bunch of money on my next build to maybe go SCSI 15k drives).

[marlin29311]

Hard drives (like the old fashioned kind, non-solid state) are good as long as there's no damage. You don't have to worry about memory failure (provided you don't drop it on the ground) because the technology is different. Hard drives store data on "disks" whereas solid-state or flash drives store in flash media, which as I mentioned before, is suspect to memory wear.

applebonker - RAID those SCSI drives, make'em run twice as fast Just don't drop them on the ground. You might also want to consider getting newer drives eventually as a lot of the newer HD's have more disk protection, helping to prevent damage to the drive based on shock (ie a nice juicy pothole). Just a suggestion