Pics of the s14 alongside friends supra!

[mrflip69]

Insanity begs the question to prove that the parts are functional. How about proving that they aren't? Your theories are as much speculation as the others.

[MAXIMUS Nismo]

is this ever going to end? IF not, LOCK THE DAMN THREAD!

[HashiriyaS14]

is this ever going to end? IF not, LOCK THE DAMN THREAD!

[GrilledCheese33]

is this ever going to end? IF not, LOCK THE DAMN THREAD!

I know, wheres the mods? Insanity got his proof, and still isn't happy

[yessir240]

i Quadruple what he said this thread has gone from 2 nice cars, to a rice argue thread...btw nice s14 haha

[BomexS13]

I like the supra......

[574-240sx]

Very nice.

[GrilledCheese33]

i Quadruple what he said this thread has gone from 2 nice cars, to a rice argue thread...btw nice s14 haha

Thanks, I like it too! Just wait till its not an offroad vehicle

I like the supra......

Mee too, i have no idea what the deal is about the rice?

Very nice.

Thanks!

[InsanityInc]

welcome to nico MKIV Surfer

Now there should be nothing to argue about since you heard it from the owner, right, insanity inc?

Heard what from the owner? His blatantly false speculation about what his body kit is doing for him?

"I don't need to prove anything to you" is code for "I know I'm wrong but don't want to admit it".

Quote »Insanity begs the question to prove that the parts are functional. How about proving that they aren't? Your theories are as much speculation as the others. [/quote]How are my theories speculation (aside from the spoiler)? That aero kit does jack ****, just by looking at it you can easily tell.

Quote »Yes, I know how a radiator works. :p Yes, the vent up top passes air THROUGH the radiator. But C-West makes piping to go from the vent to the intake to get cooling for the intake. But it was left that way because it gets air though the radiator.[/quote]No, it doesn't. Look at where it's located, It's very plain to see. Not to mention even if you were passing that much air right through the center of the radiator, it wouldn't help your cooling at all. That opening is like 1.5"x4". Also, they sell intake piping for it because it's a frigging intake vent, not a radiator cooler.

Quote »Jesus, you've got to be kidding me...the largest vent on the hood is sitting right behind the radiator, where it will be most functional. The smaller vents are just to release ambient heat.[/quote]Hey look, another person who has no ****ing clue what he's talking about, how fun. Do you for some reason think that air is flowing at an upwards angle through your engine bay? Until it gets to the back, it's pretty much going straight, and since your radiator is directly below that vent it isn't doing ****. The VIS invader hood for 240s has the same problem, the vent doesn't do diddly. Also, a random hole in your hood isn't going to do ambient cooling when you're in motion, because air is flowing through your engine bay, not just sitting there and dissipating.

Quote »How many cars go up to 160mph on roadcourses? There'd have to be one hell of a straightaway on that track. That wing functions properly when the Supra is in it's element...meaning high speed highway runs.[/quote]High speed highway runs? Are you ****ting me. You're the biggest dumbass on the face of the earth if you're going 160mph on a public highway.

Quote »Well if you're taking off all the stuff that makes your car look like ***, you've got quite a ways to go there buddy.[/quote]What are you talking about? You've never even seen my car and it has no exterior modifications whatsoever. What, do you want me to start pulling off body panels?

Quote »I can't believe I'm actually arguing this point with somebody who thinks some ebay strut bar is an excellent cure for understeer[/quote]Hey, good job being a ****ing moron. 1. Learn something about suspensions. 2. It wasn't from ebay, I don't trust anything on my car to ebay unless absolutely necessary. 3. Until you do it to your car or drive one that's had it done, shut the **** up because you have no idea what you're talking about. Thanks.

[PantherRacer]

Wings come into play @ around 60mph. It's a fact. It's because at speeds above 60mph, the car will increasingly become unstable. so the 160mph theory is jack**** the wing is needed before that speed.

You're wrong. air doesn't flow straight, and it only flows at an incline if there is an incline. the air in the engine bay is mostly turbulent, yet it is heading towards the rear of the car.but if there's an incline / the air will flow up over it, and swirl around it to occupy the space immedeately behind the incline, that's how eddy's are formed in the desert, and it is how some hoods with backward scoops function. (You would have to ask the manufacturer if that vent was made to let air in or out of the engine bay IF that hood was made to be functional in the first place)

That being said if there is a gap between the intercooler and the radiator, the air will not just jump over the gap and skip the front of the radiator. Air will go between the two, and pass over the front of the radiator, though it is given that it will be turbulent, but air smoothness is not relevant in cooling a radiator behind an intercooler now is it?The intake vent will supply a minimal amount of air to the radiator, if the space between the intercooler and radiator is large enough. Yes, if they are too close together most of the air will pass right over. It does help cooling, though not enough to be considered a reason for not hooking the vent to the intake....Insanity wins that point.

Just one point Insanity. this whole thing could have been avoided if you gave your criticisms constructively instead of as a person who knows everything about aero kits just by looking at them and calling the kit rice.Let's just be a tad bit nicer next time.

Quote »Until you do it to your car or drive one that's had it done, shut the **** up because you have no idea what you're talking about. Thanks.[/quote] not trying to argue but I think you can apply this to yourself insanity

and it's time to lock the thread....

[InsanityInc]

Wings come into play @ around 60mph. It's a fact. It's because at speeds above 60mph, the car will increasingly become unstable. so the 160mph theory is jack**** the wing is needed before that speed.

I'm talking noticable difference though, and yeah, 160 is high, it'll probably happen around 100/120 depending on how the wing is designed, but you'd need a ridiculously massive wing to have a really noticable difference at 60.

Quote »You're wrong. air doesn't flow straight, and it only flows at an incline if there is an incline. the air in the engine bay is mostly turbulent, yet it is heading towards the rear of the car.[/quote]I'm talking general direction of the air. The air as a whole under the hood is moving from the front of the bay to the rear, not spewing out every crack you give it.

Quote »but if there's an incline / the air will flow up over it, and swirl around it to occupy the space immedeately behind the incline, that's how eddy's are formed in the desert, and it is how some hoods with backward scoops function. (You would have to ask the manufacturer if that vent was made to let air in or out of the engine bay IF that hood was made to be functional in the first place)[/quote]Usually backwards scoops utilize cowl induction, which is different because it's involving pressure differentials and not just flow.

Quote » That being said if there is a gap between the intercooler and the radiator, the air will not just jump over the gap and skip the front of the radiator. Air will go between the two, and pass over the front of the radiator, though it is given that it will be turbulent, but air smoothness is not relevant in cooling a radiator behind an intercooler now is it?[/quote]I'm not sure we're talking about the same thing here. I'm talking about the 3ish inch gap below the intercooler and radiator because the opening in the lip is too big. There's really no incline there so air is just going to flow basically straight through there and through the engine bay without ever seeing the IC or radiator.

Quote » not trying to argue but I think you can apply this to yourself insanity[/quote]Not really, I mean I'm not arguing about a distinct actual performance modification. I seriously doubt even with an actual big bucks aerodynamically designed kit that you would see any difference outside of a track.

[HashiriyaS14]

I'm talking noticable difference though, and yeah, 160 is high, it'll probably happen around 100/120 depending on how the wing is designed, but you'd need a ridiculously massive wing to have a really noticable difference at 60.

Speaking from experience, I can say that the wings on Imprezas come into their range of functionality at around 80mph. I had a wingless WRX sedan, and at over 80mph, it was wandering all over the place, felt really unstable. I since have driven an '02 WRX with an '04 STI wing (and front lip) on it and it felt PLANTED at 120mph and above.

[InsanityInc]

Speaking from experience, I can say that the wings on Imprezas come into their range of functionality at around 80mph. I had a wingless WRX sedan, and at over 80mph, it was wandering all over the place, felt really unstable. I since have driven an '02 WRX with an '04 STI wing (and front lip) on it and it felt PLANTED at 120mph and above.

Yeah, and that's a pretty big wing. And the difference between 60mph and 80mph is really very massive aerodynamically speaking, as all aerodyanmic properties scale exponentially with speed. Plus, you've got to figure that the WRX is based off of a platform that probably wasn't designed with the utmost of aerodynamics in mind, and probably has some lift on the rear end which can be countered by some minor downforce. I'd imagine the actual downforce coming into play isn't that much, but it's a big difference because it's countering lift.

[spanishricer]

Hey look, another person who has no ****ing clue what he's talking about, how fun. Do you for some reason think that air is flowing at an upwards angle through your engine bay? Until it gets to the back, it's pretty much going straight, and since your radiator is directly below that vent it isn't doing ****. The VIS invader hood for 240s has the same problem, the vent doesn't do diddly. Also, a random hole in your hood isn't going to do ambient cooling when you're in motion, because air is flowing through your engine bay, not just sitting there and dissipating.

*sigh*

Maybe you didn't see where I said the vent is positioned BEHIND the radiator, not on top of it. That is why the VIS invader hood doesn't function properly and why the VIS Jun-Style hood does. So I've narrowed it down to either one of three things...

1) You can't read.2) You don't know what you're talking about.3) JUN, Msport, Chargespeed, Yashio Factory, etc...all don't know how to design functional vented hoods.

High speed highway runs? Are you ****ting me. You're the biggest dumbass on the face of the earth if you're going 160mph on a public highway.

Where in my post did I tell people to go 160mph on the highway, or mention that I, myself, go 160mph on the highway? I never even mentioned a specific speed. I said that a Supra is in it's element while racing on the highway, where the spoiler will function properly.

You suck

[InsanityInc]

*sigh*

Maybe you didn't see where I said the vent is positioned BEHIND the radiator, not on top of it. That is why the VIS invader hood doesn't function properly and why the VIS Jun-Style hood does. So I've narrowed it down to either one of three things...

1) You can't read.2) You don't know what you're talking about.3) JUN, Msport, Chargespeed, Yashio Factory, etc...all don't know how to design functional vented hoods.

The VIS hood vent is positioned behind the radiator as well, but just like this particular hood, it's positioned about 4-5 inches behind it, which is useless because no air is going to get out of the hood that way. The air will not just suddenly turn up and shoot out the top of your hood because you put a hole there. There's a bit more to venting than that.

Quote »Where in my post did I tell people to go 160mph on the highway, or mention that I, myself, go 160mph on the highway? I never even mentioned a specific speed. I said that a Supra is in it's element while racing on the highway, where the spoiler will function properly. [/quote]OK. Then let me rephrase. If you're racing on a public highway, you're a ****ing moron.

[nismodave]

I like cookies.

[Dattebayo]

I would like to know what makes you so right all the time. You even started arguing with one of our more knowledgeable moderators over suspension issues.

Who are you? How do you know so much?

And more importantly, why do you insist on ruining so many threads?

[spanishricer]

The VIS hood vent is positioned behind the radiator as well, but just like this particular hood, it's positioned about 4-5 inches behind it, which is useless because no air is going to get out of the hood that way. The air will not just suddenly turn up and shoot out the top of your hood because you put a hole there. There's a bit more to venting than that.

Ask someone who actually owns a VIS invader hood where the vent sits, and don't go by the pictures you see online.

OK. Then let me rephrase. If you're racing on a public highway, you're a ****ing moron.

Don't pull that "holier than thou" crap, it's old and tired. Street racing has been around longer than most of us have been alive and it's not going to disappear anytime soon. Nothing wrong with getting on it when you've got an open stretch of highway.

[InsanityInc]

Ask someone who actually owns a VIS invader hood where the vent sits, and don't go by the pictures you see online.

I've seen pictures specifically showing the positioning of the vent in relation to the radiator. I'd say that's just as good as seeing one in person.

Quote »Don't pull that "holier than thou" crap, it's old and tired. Street racing has been around longer than most of us have been alive and it's not going to disappear anytime soon. Nothing wrong with getting on it when you've got an open stretch of highway.[/quote]There's nothing wrong with doing it where you aren't endangering others, but on a highway you always are due to there being onramps everywhere along it, and people aren't going to assume that you're coming up on them at over 100mph.

[Veriest1]

Hah hah. Sorry, just because you think your "aero kit" looks nifty doesn't mean it does a damned thing for aerodynamics. First of all, the front lip is fairly soft urethane attached by a few screws. It's not going to be able to hold any kind of downforce or transmit it to your car. Second, considering the massive gap between the FMIC and the end of the space for the FMIC, you're not going to keep any air out from under the car. And notice that little backwards swoop on the sideskirts? Yeah, that's doing nothing but creating drag. If anything, I'd guess his car is actually LESS aerodynamic with those modifications. Anything that has actual aerodynamic properties would cost a fortune aftermarket. There's a reason why you don't see race cars with common body kits, they don't do ****.

Personally I don't like the disgn of sideskirts but they *could* actually work and I realize I'm stepping out on a bit of a limb when I say that.

As far as getting air where it needs to be some good heavy plastic would take care of that rather easily and mean the openings in the front would serve a very good purpose. Someone who knows the owner might suggest that.

As for the splitters on the front please refer to this picture of a Peugeot rally car... with what looks like pieces from a a plastic barrel bolted on.... Racing isn't always as scientific as it presents its self to be and sometimes one just has to do what works or may work to solve the problem.

[InsanityInc]

Quote »As for the splitters on the front please refer to this picture of a Peugeot rally car... with what looks like pieces from a a plastic barrel bolted on.... Racing isn't always as scientific as it presents its self to be and sometimes one just has to do what works or may work to solve the problem.[/quote]See, that's where you're wrong. Racing is ALWAYS scientific, just not always pretty. I don't have a problem with blatantly ugly things that have a practical purpose. And I can guarantee that they didn't just throw on some plastic pieces and call it good. Those little ugly white things were designed by an engineer to serve a specific aerodynamic purpose.

[spanishricer]

I've seen pictures specifically showing the positioning of the vent in relation to the radiator. I'd say that's just as good as seeing one in person.

Just as I thought...

[Thee 240sx Owner]

The supra is rice the 240 is nice and 600 hp is typical for a supra... you need that just to get the car to get into the whay.. mid 12's? lol supras are like tampons, every Pu*ssy has one

[InsanityInc]

Just as I thought...

Oh, so you're still retarded? Seeing pictures of the vent specifically viewing how the vent is oriented in relation to the radiator gives you the exact same perspective as seeing it in real life. If you're going to try and dispute that, you may want to get your head examined.

[Veriest1]

See, that's where you're wrong. Racing is ALWAYS scientific, just not always pretty. I don't have a problem with blatantly ugly things that have a practical purpose. And I can guarantee that they didn't just throw on some plastic pieces and call it good. Those little ugly white things were designed by an engineer to serve a specific aerodynamic purpose.

Whether a car is pretty or not is not my first priority. Please stop implying that it is.

Anyway, on topic, the little white things look to be more flimsy than the supras splitters. That's the point I was making.

Racing is scientific in preperation, however, once race time comes it is all about high speed problem solving for both the driver and the pit crew. Keeping the car on the track is top priority and given the expertise within proffesional racing there is a good chance those where slapped on with the theory that they would solve an unexpected problem on a particular course with no scientific backup other than previous experience.

Of course if your talking Formula 1 then the number of sensors in the cars are outlandish and allow everything to be calculated under race conditions but most forms of racing don't have a budget large enough to allow for such things.

[InsanityInc]

Whether a car is pretty or not is not my first priority. Please stop implying that it is.

Anyway, on topic, the little white things look to be more flimsy than the supras splitters. That's the point I was making.

Looks can be deceiving. I guarantee those are something stronger than the common urethane bodykits are made of.

Quote »Racing is scientific in preperation, however, once race time comes it is all about high speed problem solving for both the driver and the pit crew. Keeping the car on the track is top priority and given the expertise within proffesional racing there is a good chance those where slapped on with the theory that they would solve an unexpected problem on a particular course with no scientific backup other than previous experience. [/quote]Previous experience, which was based on actual engineering. See, it all comes back to that. They didn't stick them on there and say "hey, this probably does something nifty!".

[spanishricer]

Looks can be deceiving. I guarantee those are something stronger than the common urethane bodykits are made of.

Oh, using pretty lil' pictures as hard evidence again are we? It could be made out of leftover condoms for all you know...

Looks can be deceiving.

You should take your own advice and not base your responses on images you find on the internet...

[InsanityInc]

Oh, using pretty lil' pictures as hard evidence again are we? It could be made out of leftover condoms for all you know...

You should take your own advice and not base your responses on images you find on the internet...

Jesus ****ing christ you little retard, the pictures were in a thread whose purpose was to examine the poorness of the vent placement. Also, looks can't be decieving when they line a ****ing camera up and take a picture of the hood in parallel relation to the radiator. You can judge distance and dimensions by sight, but you can't judge the hardiness of a material by sight.

How many times do you feel like being utterly wrong today?

[PantherRacer]

Darkness! Darkness is spreading throughout the thread!

Danger, Danger Will Moderator!

Let's put this ***** on lock?and just get over our differences for once?

at least we're not arguing over a Nissan....

[Veriest1]

I never said racing wasn't scientific. I said...

Quote »Racing isn't always as scientific as it presents its self to be[/quote]Previous experience isn't as scientific as setting down with CAD and developing splitters.

Quote »Looks can be deceiving.[/quote]Thank you. This is exactly why continueing this discussion is a waste of time. We've spoken our pieces and their is a good chance one of us is correct. Unfortunatly without more information we can't fully prove one standpoint over the other.

I'll stop playing devils advacate now and say that the body kit on the Supra (while having the possibility of adding areodynamic gains) probably adds more wieght than anything else. Fortunatly it has enough horsepower to overcome that. If the owner truely wanted a road-race car his choices would have most likely been signifigantly different and the aero parts would be adjustable.