Phantom wheel wobble + noise

[ezza]

Hi all,

Il try to keep this as short and informative as possable.

S14
Was crashed into a curb (rear left wheel hit curb side on), made a decent sized gash in the wheel and bent arms and poss subframe.

took it off the road...

replaced drive shaft
Replaced subframe
all rear arms
fitted fortune auto toe arms
Solid subframe bushes
welded diff
solid diff bushes

now running 18x12 with 10mm slip on and extended studs

Took the car for a little test drive, was getting mad wobble just as i approach 30mph and onwards

jacked the car up at the rear, put it in gear to seeif the wheel was buckled, span perfectly true and straight but when on the ground it wobbled, also swapped wheels around, the wobble remained on the same side (LH).

I deduced this was the bearing, so i got a new one pressed in, refitted and put all back together earlier tonight.

STILL have what looks like a wobble, the bearing noise has gone exposing another noise which sounds like the coilover is nocking. sounds almost like loose locking collars but it isnt.

After driving forward and backwards with a friend watching the wheel we thought it could be the toe being way out (still hasnt been aligned), so i adjusted the toe and set by eye (did look kinda off before hand). This made the wobble somewhat better and the car felt more stable, i imagine the toe on both sides was that far out the LH wheel was being forced to skip back into line every few feet (if that makes sense).

So this is where im at now.

Im going to swap the coilovers round and see if the nocking chages sides to establish if the coilover is damaged.

Is it possible that i have actually bent the hub flange that the wheel mounts too with the impact? its pretty thick metal but are there any other cases of this happening?

tommorow im gunna jack it up take the wheel, caliper, disc etc off and try to rig up some sort of micrometer holder, put it in gear and see if its bent.

any other thoughts are more than welcome

thanks in advance

this is the car btw:

[sx moneypit]

If you hit the curb hard enough to damage the subframe there is a good possibility that you did damage the hub.



Welcome to NICO!

- Ben

[sx moneypit]

By the way , good looking car!

[ezza]

thanks man,

I just measured the hub to see if it was bent, its moving a fractional amount which i would expect to be wthin tolerances.

<iframe src="http://player.vimeo.com/video/36352328? ... portrait=0" width="400" height="711" frameborder="0" webkitAllowFullScreen mozallowfullscreen allowFullScreen></iframe>

then as a point of reference did the wheel of the side that gives no vibration atall to gauge how much movement would be "acceptable"

<iframe src="http://player.vimeo.com/video/36352772? ... portrait=0" width="400" height="711" frameborder="0" webkitAllowFullScreen mozallowfullscreen allowFullScreen></iframe>

im stumped :s

could bad alignment cause the wheel to skip making it appear to wobble?

[sx moneypit]

Your links aren't working.
As far as the alignment goes,if it is way out it could cause that.
You should be able to tell by eyeballing it if it is that screwed up.


-Ben

[ezza]

The rear toe was WAY out:



even by axlestand + string standards! Iv got it as straight as i can tell and this hasnt cured the problem.

Im beggining to think i have two unrelated problems;

1) what could cause the wheel to wobble or appear to move in and out when driving (even at 1-2mph) but not when the car is in the air?

2) what would cause vibration and noise at around 30mph onwards on the road or jacked up (wheel speed)?

Im really starting to get fed up with this now

[sx moneypit]

Did you ever check the run out on the hub?

[PapaSmurf2k3]

Have you tried rocking the wheel up and down axially (inboard and outboard of the vehicle) like you would to check for a bad wheel bearing? Do that side to side too... maybe one of your bushings isn't right, or you have a wicked bad ball joint?

You said it doesn't wobble with it in the air just spinning the wheel right? If so, it doesn't sound like the hub, but you can definitely damage those things slamming them that hard.

[ezza]

What is runout?

I have tried shaking/wobbling the wheel but I can't seem to get it to move, it seems the weight of the car is needed to make whatever this is move.

I'm going to fix my phone to the car looking at the wheel and grab a vid so you guys can see the orientation/pivot of the movement.

[ezza]

I'v found out actually what's causing all problems (wheel wobble, noise, vibration).
It's as if the driveshaft on the passenger side is too long, the bearings on the diff side have punctured the end cap and have made grooves in the thick a** cast diff output cups. I'm not sure what the problem here is now though, the driveshaft is one I brought from gduk who are a very reputable place so I'm not convinced the shaft is the problem.
I could do with finding the dimensions of the s14 N/S shaft just to make sure it the correct length.
It only seems to foul when the suspension is loaded, like it's forcing the shaft into the diff an as it spins the bearings are hitting the diff output forcing the wheel out (hence the wobble etc)

BTW the 'end cap' from the shaft was stuck to the diff output, had to hammer it off with a flathead.

here are some pics:







(the grease had leaked through the holes in the end cap)

[PapaSmurf2k3]

Yeah, it did it when the suspension was loaded because that's the time when the axle has the least distance to go to the rear knuckle (its in a straight line at that point). CV axles sort of expand and contract as needed... to a point. It would appear yours was past that point for whatever reason. Either they gave you the wrong half shaft, or when you kissed the curb, you bent/shifted something so as to close the distance between the 2 flanges.

[ezza]

When the suspension is relaxed the shaft is horizontal, in what should be its most 'compressed stage) before its under load, when it's loaded and the axle shifts the bearings begin to bind.

I took the shaft off and checked the movement of both cv's they were perfectly fine.

Is it possible I was sold a axle that's not s14? Are there any other axles that would have compatable flanges but a slightly different length?

I compared the other side axle which is way longer, I wouldn't even be able to install them the wrong way round.

If the impact was to blame surely the distance would be greater, also to move/bend the car enought to cause this surely there would be visable signs, tears etc. iv swapped out the subframe and didn't see any signs of damage or deformation.
Also surely the other side would be too short?

I dunno, I'm getting frustrated with this.

[PapaSmurf2k3]

Not sure man, that's the first time I've ever seen that happen. I guess order another axle and compare the 2? Either that or have someone measure that distance on their S14 and let you know.

[ezza]

I'm starting to think the problem is the knuckle, my new theory is that the knuckle got bent on impact pushing it closer to the diff enough to cause this.

When I set the toe it seemed like I had to set it past any 'comfortable' limit, felt like I had to really force it and really push/pull the wheel to get the toe back in spec.

[ezza]

Just fitted new knuckle, STILL THE SAME !!!
at this point i have replaced nearly everything in the wheelarch!

Either they gave you the wrong half shaft, or when you kissed the curb, you bent/shifted something so as to close the distance between the 2 flanges.

What different driveshafts are there that would fit?

is there a difference in length between ABS/non ABS, VLSD, non VLSD etc shafts?

any help much appreciated

thanks

[PapaSmurf2k3]

Dunno... for all I know when you got a rebuilt halfshaft, they fitted an incorrect mid section between the CV joints.

Do you still have your old one? Can you lay them side by side to compare length?

[PapaSmurf2k3]

Could your control arms be bent/shorter, or the body (where they mount) be crushed inward a bit

[ezza]

Well it looks out iv finally goin out what the problem is, il cuts long story short.

Stagea driveshaft (axle)!!

Turns out a stagea driveshaft has the same flange and spline as s14 but is 20mm longer.

Getting a 100% s14 shaft sent out, il let you know the outcome

[sx moneypit]

Glad to see you have found the problem!