*Passes out*

[MinisterofDOOM]

I...it...I...

I cannot describe the awesomeness I've just discovered.



The new LINUX POWERED Logitech G19. The newest successor to my beloved G15 gaming keyboard.

FULL COLOR 320x240 display, the latest update to Logi's Gamepanel display system. Considering that this little beastie is running Linux, I expect to see some very cool things happening.

Customizable G-keys, as with the G15 (6 fewer keys this time, but all 18 weren't really needed in the first place).

Customizable backlight color, as with the G15, G13, and G9.

It looks more compact than the G15, too, which will be nice as the G15 is MASSIVE.

I was about to head out and pick up a new G13 controller. Forget that. I'm waiting for the G19.

[x240xdrifter]

sweet jesus!

[Loki]

$200 for a keyboard! Wowee! :O

[MinisterofDOOM]

Yeah, it's steep, but I'll probably pay it. I don't regret paying $100 for my G15 or $100 for my G9. Both are superb devices. I don't think I'll regret paying $200 for the G19, either.

[Red coupe]

Needs more wireless.

[MinisterofDOOM]

Um...why?

Wireless keyboards SUCK. I'm very very glad Logitech doesn't screw around with wireless in their gaming keyboards.

This is a PC-only gaming keyboard. It's not intended for use with consoles or media PCs in the living room; no consoles support the advanced features anyway.

Wireless keyboards are MORE hassle, not less. Keyboards don't need to be portable. I have never in my life, ever, not one single time, ever wished my keyboard was wireless.

Also, due to the fact that the G19 is actually a small computer itself, it needs power beyond what USB can provide. Battery life would be abysmal.

If you want wireless, go for some of Logi's productivity desktops. Wireless is not for gaming.

Wireless, in addition to not being necessary, introduces a ton of new problem in it's effort to solve a problem that isn't there:-Latency-Battery life-Device weight-Charge time-Device connectivity

With a wired keyboard, you plug the damn thing in and go. Never have to charge it. No battery to die at a bad time. No waiting for charging. No battey to add weight to the device or take up valuable space best devoted to other things.

I've always been thoroughly baffled by wireless PC peripherals. I can almost understand the appeal of wireless mice since cords can interfere with mouse movement. But even with mice the sacrifices necessary to go wireless are not worth it.

[Otto.]

:O

WANT!

hmmm... but first I need my own computer. :\

[AZ89two4Tsx]

So wait, what's the screen for? Sorry for the noobness, I don't play computer games. I find myself not even wanting to play my xbox/ps3 anymore.

[MinisterofDOOM]

The screen is for various things. It runs widgets. The idea is that game designers will add widget support to their games. There's also a decent range of available widgets from the user end.

The older G15 that I'm running has a screen, but it's just a low-resolution dot-matrix black-and-white LCD.It's still really useful, though. Some of it's uses:

--Display additional info in games. WoW shows a TON of useful info and also keeps track of "whisper" conversations on the LCD. Hellgate shows stats. C&C3 shows unit counts, income info, and other nice stats. Prey shows a compass and health/spirit.A fair number of games offer support for the LCD

--Show system info. The LCD graphs memory and CPU load. There's also a clock display that shows time, date, and a new-email count for Outlook.

--Operate media programs. With the LCD and the keyboard's media controls, you can operate your favorite music player from the keyboard while playing a game without needing to switch to the media player window.

--Show IM or VOIP info. With IM, I can run convos entirely on the keyboard, never needing to alt+tab from what I'm doing to the IM window. Also, when running programs like Ventrillo, I can see who is speaking, who's in my channel, and more info on the LCD. Very useful.

--Tons of other support for random applications.

The big bonus of the new G19 is that it is a machine itself, so it'll be able to run more powerful apps and will be able to show much more useful info with it's larger resolution and color support.In the "tour" video on Logi's website, the LCD is used to display a minimap for one game. Very useful.

Follow this link and click the "Product Tour" in the upper right, you'll see some good examples.http://www.logitech.com/index....us,en##

[Red coupe]

Wireless works perfectly fine for gaming.

I changed the batteries on my old one 1-2 times per year. easily worth not having wires running everywhere.

I have never gotten why people are so against wireless for gaming. I think these people have either not used a wireless device since the mid 90s or got theirs for $5 at the thrift store.

My wireless keyboard and mouse work perfectly, have never died on me out of the blue, go months on a set of batteries, and have absolutely NO lag.

[MinisterofDOOM]

easily worth not having wires running everywhere.

See, and I FERVENTLY disagree. Not worth it at all. Did one of your keyboards try and garrote you once or something?It's a PC. You are ALWAYS going to have wires.

The G19 acts as a POWERED USB2.0 hub and also needs power to run it's inbuilt computer. You can't go wireless with things like that. You have to have a power supply. So you have to have a cord.

[Red coupe]

I used to always get my feet caught on wires, plus with wireless I can put it in the drawer of my desk that doesn't have good routing for wires.

I also sometimes prefer to sit back and having a keyboard I can use in my lap is good.Also makes watching movies in bed way easier and I can use it on my PS3 with out having to dig wires out from behind my desk and hang them across the room.

other then the very small cost of batteries (I still have the $10 pack I bought over a year ago, which I took some for other things from as well.) there has not been a single downside to using wireless.

The screen might not work as well on battery power... but I don't look at my keyboard when I play games, I watch the game. Its much easier to have keys mapped to the important info then to look down and operate a keyboard's menu.

[MinisterofDOOM]

It seems like an odd idea looking at your keyboard while playing games, but it's actually not awkward at all. Here's my setup now:



See, the screen is right below the monitor anyway, so you don't really have to take your eyes off the monitor to use it.

And yes, those boxes for the Sims 2 and Star Trek Legacy are supporting the desk. Stupid cheap Walmart desk. The whole top sags badly. Of course, it is pretty heavily loaded.

If you like sitting back and using your mouse while watching movies or relaxing casually at the computer, you need to check out THIS sweet little beastie:



MX Air. Cordless laser mouse/gyro mouse combo with built-in media controls. You can operate your PC with no desk surface...from your couch or bed or whatever.

[dandaman]

Wow, that mouse looks sweet

[C-Kwik]

For casual use, I prefer a wireeless keyboard. Logitech has gotten bettery life to about 6 months now. The one I'm on now uses 2 AAA batteries. While my setup at work requires a wireless set-up (I use the LCD TV as a monitor and I have to put the keyboard on a wheeled tray; the space between both is a walkway), even at home it is convenient to have. And that's simply for the fact that I sometimes need to use my desk as an actual desk. Moving the keyboard is as easy as picking it up and putting it anywhere convenient. I've had to do that before with wired keyboards and the wires were always an issue.

That said, if I still gamed heavily on a PC, I would have a wired keyboard. Wireless keyboards tend to have small hiccups here and there with keystrokes. Not something you want to run into in-game. I'd also imagine battery life might not be as good with gaming as you'ld be holding down keys most of the time.

But what I have to ask is what advantage, if any, does a $200 keyboard give you anyways? Let alone a keyboard with an LCD attached to it?

[MinisterofDOOM]

But what I have to ask is what advantage, if any, does a $200 keyboard give you anyways? Let alone a keyboard with an LCD attached to it?

It's not just advantage. It's the appeal of having a neat gadget.

But it does offer advantages. Those on-the-fly macro keys are very useful. No need to set up keybinding "profiles" in an external application. Now you can set up the macro you want in-game when you want it.

Also, Logitech's gaming keyboards solve a common keyboard design issue: simultaneous keypress limitations. Due to the way the key matrix is laid out on most keyboards, certain key combinations don't work. Usually no more than 3 simultaneous kepresses at once can be supported by the keyboard. Logitech's gaming keyboards use a different design that allows more simultaneous keypresses and avoids the key "overlap" that causes things to muck up. An example: In Rigs of Rods (a free trucking sim) on my home PC with mg G15, I have a certain control setup. Since it's a sim with big trucks, you're pretty busy on the keyboard shifting, etc. On my parent's machine with an older $20 "generic" keyboard (even a Logitech, just not a gaming-purposed one) those keybindings don't work. I lose the ability to turn right under certain conditions due to the number of keys being used at once. No such issue on my G15.

The media keys are also really nice, although many keyboards have those these days.

One other very nice feature logitech's gaming keyboards have is the mode switch that disables Windows key functionality. No more accidentally minimizing your game when trying to press alt ctrl. Mash on Windows all you want, if you're in game mode, it doesn't do squat. Flip the switch back and it works like normal.

As far as the LCD, it's extremely useful. Some examples:

Raiding in WoW. Since WoW doesn't have a built-in VOIP system (that's worth using, at any rate) everyone uses Ventrilo or similar programs. That means there's no visual indicator in-game as to who is speaking. If you don't raid with the same people regularly, that can add confusion unless everyone always identifies themself every time they talk. Not an issue for me with my G15, as the LCD shows Ventrilo info so I can glance at the LCD and see who is transmitting.

Also, with the Trillian plugin, I can IM people without ever having to alt-tab out of my game. Just hit one of the function buttons for the LCD and the keyboard switches over to the LCD for a minute. Type the message in the LCD itself and transmit...the whole conversation takes place in the LCD alone.

Then there's the additional info you get at a glance. No need to open the character window in WoW. I get on-the-fly unit count info in C&C. Very useful.

And the new LCD should be even more robust. Freeing up viewport space without sacrificing UI information is a highly desirable bonus in my eyes.

[Red coupe]

Usually no more than 3 simultaneous kepresses at once can be supported by the keyboard.

Only three keys from the same grouping... but in general around 7 simultaneous keys can be supported by even the cheapest keyboards.

I've never ran into it as a problem during games.

[MinisterofDOOM]

Unfortunately the arrow/directional keys are all one grouping. And shift, alt, ctrl, etc. are usually a single group as well. Which means lots of overlap.

It isn't terribly often that I run into overlap when you consider PC games across the board, but with input-intensive games like Rigs of Rods or even WoW (where you're often using a modifier key like shift to double your available keys) it's definitely not uncommon at all. The original GTA was horrible for key overlap. It used the arrow keys and shift/alt/ctrl for major commands, so you'd run into issues like the above mentioned loss of steering pretty often. You could rebind the keys but using the arrow keys and the shift keys just made the most sense logically and ergonomically.

[Red coupe]

Who uses arrows keys anyways? Its alwasys WASD

[MinisterofDOOM]

WASD is the superior option for games that use the keyboard AND MOUSE. If you're not using the mouse, your right hand runs the arrow keys and leaves your left hand free to use the whole left side of the keyboard. WASD plus right hand on the keyboard leaves things cramped.

Especially for games you steer via the keyboard and don't need the mouse, the arrow keys are ideal.

The original GTA layout was steering (on foot and in car) with arrow keys, and enter/shift/control/alt for jump, shoot, use, etc. Much more natural than any WASD combo would have been. Even being conditioned to WASD by shooters, it never worked well for me with GTA or other keyboard-only driving games.

[Red coupe]

ADAPT! (or spend $200 on keyboards )

In reality I don't really use my keyboard for gaming. I had a smaller desk, where there wasn't much mouse room so I took to setting my keyboard aside and bought one of these:

Its pretty nice. I just wish it had a better number layout and a 0 button so I could make a solid works setup for it...

[MinisterofDOOM]

Those Zboard designs have always seemed too un-ergonomic and fisher-price-like in design, but they're a good idea...just poorly executed.

There are better options though, if you want something along those lines.. Look into Nostromo's N52 Speedpad. I own an older model. I'm not particularly fond of the key feel, but everything else about it is excellent. Supposedly the newer models have corrected the key feel issue, though. I think the new one is called the N52 TE.

Or there's Logitech's new G13. It's still not perfect, though. But the ergonomics are fantastic and being a Logitech keyboard the key feel is as good as it gets. The thumb button arrangement is superior to the N52, too.

Saitek also makes the Cyborg Command unit, which is really similar to the N52 but more...cyborg looking.

And there's a super-fancy one called the Ergodex DX1 that has physically movable keys that you place wherever you want, giving you total control of layout, but it's really pricey and the flat ergonomics seem like they'd be uncomfortable. $150 for the Ergodex or $200 for the G19 leaves a pretty clear buying decision for me.

Oh, and there's the Wolfking Warrior, which has TONS of buttons but is another one with questionable ergonomics.

Both the N52 and the G13 have a MAJOR weakness in my eyes, though: The "WASD" keys are too far to the top. There needs to be another row of keys above them. Too many games traditionally use the number keys for important functions, and eliminating that row is not an option IMO. That's why I prefer the G15/G19 over those smaller devices. Otherwise I'd probably have a $20 keyboard and a G13 for gaming.Saitek's Cyborg does have a row of keys above the WASD keys, though, so it's probably the best of the lot.

[marlin29311]

SIMPLICITY!!!!!

Haha, that keyboard does look badass though MoD.

[S133P3R]

hmmm....

[MinisterofDOOM]

Hahaha, I didn't notice the 4:20.

As for the other two things, that's not the half of it...

http://is.rely.net/3-4-16157-l...g.jpg

I have at least 15 12-packs of empty coke cans in the living room. One of these days I'll take them to be recycled.

SIMPLICITY!!!!!

I think you meant "RESTRICTION!"

There are a few games that work best with a gamepad, but not many. Usually they're games designed around the gamepad. Assassin's Creed is one, GTA is another. Fable is a PITA to play with a keyboard (which is why it's baffling that Fable: TLC doesn't support a gamepad).

Fewer buttons is a tradeoff.

I wish more console games had fully customizable controls, though. I'm getting pretty irritated with the lack of control customization in console games these days. I get to choose between 2 or 3 schemes that all suck instead of being able to set my own bindings.

[marlin29311]

I agree with you 100% - there are games that I really wish I could tell the system what I want each key to do, but yet I get stuck with a standard control scheme. Halo 3 is one of them (i don't even play halo 3 anymore). Fortunatly, most games come with something that is somewhat desireable, but there are games where I'm just like WTF let me choose!

[s13jus10]

G19 looks awesome... too bad I don't work at Best Buy anymore, I could definitely hook you up with a nice discount.. would probably get about $50 off too

[MinisterofDOOM]

Dang, I need to make friends with some best buy employees.

[s13jus10]

I'll be your friend

lol seriously though, I still have some friends working there and I'm pretty sure I can get them to hook me/you up.

when does it come out?

[Axel Grungy]

I have at least 15 12-packs of empty coke cans in the living room. One of these days I'll take them to be recycled..

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