pacesetter vs hot shot vs dc headers

[nWoRCD89]

does anyone know what the dyno results of dc sport, pacesetter, and hot shot headers are? i know these are the 3 most commonly used headers in a na build.

[romerider153]

to be honest there all kinda junk buy a turbo

[98s14inaz]

+1. I've done the all motor route and got nowhere fast...pardon the pun. Save up and buy a turbo kit...you'll be way happier :-) Headers are more headache than they are worth.

[WI_S14_Goldie]

if u want a header...get an OBX. Cheap, almost or IS identical to the Hottshot in performance...

[Slappy]

DC Sports , now owned by AEM , makes a great header for the KA , ill be getting one soon.

And turbo's are for people that lack the knowledge on how to really build a motor.

[Fla240sx]

And turbo's are for people that lack the knowledge on how to really build a motor.

go talk to Honda guys with 1.6L engines running 10's all motor lol........

they run faster then 98% of the people on this forum who use a bigger motor and forced induction

thats almost comparing apples to oranges tho... but hey its still a motor

[98s14inaz]

I'd love to build a motor that either has displacement or will rev past 7k with out exploding...lol

That honda argument has nothing to do with this. The high revs and vtec is the only reason those cars kick ***.

[GTS]

Can you morons post a reply that is relevant to the question?

To answer the OP's question - there are very few dyno sheets that compare the gains of the different kinds of header, individually. Personally, I was unable to find any credible dyno sheets on the net. I was looking for similar information myself before I bought my DC Sports header.

[amolao]

Hotshots are almost nonexistent at this time, unless you buy one used. OBX are nice (I have one), the SOHC is hard to fine and they run VERY hot. Had to end up wrapping mine. The DC sports ceramic coated is the way to go, runs a lot cooler. That's what I'm getting next time. Is pricey but worth it in the end. Sorry I have no info on dyno sheets.

[98s14inaz]

... there are very few dyno sheets that compare the gains of the different kinds of header, individually. Personally, I was unable to find any credible dyno sheets on the net. I was looking for similar information myself before I bought my DC Sports header.

Think about it. The headers do d!ck on na 4cyl nissan motors. You aren't going to find any credible dyno sheets because the headers all work the same, 5-7 whp tops. The only gain you get is because you are eliminating the precat which is a huge restriction. Call all the names you want. You know I'm right.

[GTS]

Think about it. The headers do d!ck on na 4cyl nissan motors. You aren't going to find any credible dyno sheets because the headers all work the same, 5-7 whp tops. The only gain you get is because you are eliminating the precat which is a huge restriction. Call all the names you want. You know I'm right.

You are also a moron for arguing a point that is not relevant.

You are probably right - an exhaust header has very little gain on a 4 banger but you're providing irrelevant information that is not related to the original posted question which makes your posts a waste of time to read and a waste of bandwidth.

Learn to read, think, then type.

[98s14inaz]

You are also a moron for arguing a point that is not relevant.

You are probably right - an exhaust header has very little gain on a 4 banger but you're providing irrelevant information that is not related to the original posted question which makes your posts a waste of time to read and a waste of bandwidth.

Learn to read, think, then type.

The fact that you can't argue with out stooping to name calling and sarcasm is proof that you have no clue what you are talking about. Headers are worthless on ka's end of discussion. I'm trying to save the guy some money in the long run. But go ahead, be an e-thug, call me names, and make with the sarcasm. It shows how full of it you are. Why don't you go back to wacking off to anime or somthing

[Slappy]

The fact that you can't argue with out stooping to name calling and sarcasm is proof that you have no clue what you are talking about. Headers are worthless on ka's end of discussion. I'm trying to save the guy some money in the long run. But go ahead, be an e-thug, call me names, and make with the sarcasm. It shows how full of it you are. Why don't you go back to wacking off to anime or somthing

Im not posting this to argue with you , but have you put a 240sx with a stock exhaust mani on a Dyno with results , and then installed a DC Sports header on that same KA in that same 240 and put it back on that same dyno and have the results on paper?

[98s14inaz]

Yes, a long time ago when I thought bolt-ons were the greatest thing ever. I had all the dyno sheets and crap tucked into my receipt book but threw it away after the car was totaled and parted out, I didn't see a point in keeping that stuff. In Phoenix we had access to several dynos one at technodyne (no longer exists) and one at Intense. Just about every az240 meet we had at a shop resulted in cars on the dyno. It was embarrassing to spend all that money just to have 150whp tops. Then the next guy rolls up with a stock sr and a boost controller and puts down 210whp.

Even IF the kid still wanted to stay na and does a high compression build etc...what is he going to hit 170-180whp? I've seen beat on stock sr's do that for the same money he would pay for machine work.

The na 4cyl mod money would be better spent buying a daily beater and modifying the 240 the right way with either a built ka turbo project or a motor swap...sr, rb,ls1, vq...pick one.

I'm not trying to $hit on this guy's thread. I'm trying to inject a little reality into is so he doesn't get his hopes up. I apologize if this turned into a $hit slinging contest.

[cwtt]

Yes, a long time ago when I thought bolt-ons were the greatest thing ever. I had all the dyno sheets and crap tucked into my receipt book but threw it away after the car was totaled and parted out, I didn't see a point in keeping that stuff. In Phoenix we had access to several dynos one at technodyne (no longer exists) and one at Intense. Just about every az240 meet we had at a shop resulted in cars on the dyno. It was embarrassing to spend all that money just to have 150whp tops. Then the next guy rolls up with a stock sr and a boost controller and puts down 210whp.Even IF the kid still wanted to stay na and does a high compression build etc...what is he going to hit 170-180whp? I've seen beat on stock sr's do that for the same money he would pay for machine work.

The na 4cyl mod money would be better spent buying a daily beater and modifying the 240 the right way with either a built ka turbo project or a motor swap...sr, rb,ls1, vq...pick one.

I'm not trying to $hit on this guy's thread. I'm trying to inject a little reality into is so he doesn't get his hopes up. I apologize if this turned into a $hit slinging contest.

I agree. Going NA is a waste of time if you really want to make decent power. To me, 150-200whp is NOT decent power. Not to mention it costs a fortune to make power while going NA on 4cylinders.

And turbo's are for people that lack the knowledge on how to really build a motor.

That is a pretty bold and ignorant thing to say. Sure there are the 1% of people who go NA to be different and drop lots of money into it and maybe you are one of them. But I find that 90% of the time people go NA because they can not afford a turbo setup.

[Slappy]

That is a pretty bold and ignorant thing to say.

[vwhite_turbo]

DC is probably the best header you can find for the KA. It is pricey, but the build quality should be superior to OBX, and probably save you some trouble when warranty or anything is needed.

What kind of power is decent or not decent is very subjective. A 300whp car is probably too much for the majority of the people to handle anyways. Although I would agree to turbocharge your KA for cheap power, but the OP may not want to go FI because he is limited by certain constraints (eg. club rules, class rules, money issues, etc.), so just let him decide what he wants to do to his car, instead of starting a FI vs NA argument.

[nWoRCD89]

alright guys sorry its been a few days just got back in town but to answer these many arguments that are unwanted and not needed....

i have the money to do things right as of now in one direction only though. i have the money for a turbo kit but whats the point when you cant boost too high and have to worry about internals and the aluminum head issues.

next...

i live in atl and go to many of the meets around here on a weekly basis now i dont know what you guys are talking about with only 200whp on a na build? thats crazy we have guys all day long pulling 250-280WHP yes thats a W before the hp. im not too sure about what kind of builds those guys are doing any saying its a "built" engine but thats a load of bull to only be able to get to 200whp on a naturally aspirated build. hate to say it but if a 1.6l tops out around 230 unless some craziness is going then how are you going to say that a 2.4 is going to top out at 200hp? please explain that to me in detail....

now for the whole issue of na vs fi for now...what im aiming at as of now is a complete na build and then to finish the car out with rims, paint and everything not engine related. then once im out of college ill buy new lower compression pistons change a couple other things out and be ready for as much boost i can throw at the engine without any issues. so when i say im doing a NA build im not just saying a intake and exhaust at all. im doing it all from rods, pistons, valves, cams, valve job, p and p, bored out intake manifold, ect....you get my drift? no pun intended.

now to address the lame 5-7whp gain as stated earlier...once again my 240 boys down at pleasent hill can provide dyno sheets all day long showing the dc sport headers and others are rated for i think 10whp and 17tq? i might be off a little bit but then they bolt em on and go to a dyno and well lets just say they get more than 5-7whp

agreed on the fact that headers wont do a whole lot on a 4 banger but a lot more than some people think.......when it comes down to it 5 hp here and 10 there and well what happens.......you have well over 200whp

another thing comes down to it....97 240s weigh in around 2900 and then once you strip out things such as seats, carpet, ect. and then the ever heavy TAR you shed a lot of weight. combind all that with the addition of some carbon fiber parts and things like racing seats, driveshafts, ect. and you lose a lot more weight. the final thing is rims. you can shed almost 50 pounds on a full set of lightweight rims. now not that i like it but ive read that with the greddy ti exhaust you lose almost 25-30 pounds from stock exhaust.....just stating some things i have read. when it comes down to it you can shed around 200-300 pounds if you are willing to spend the time and money to do it.....little fact for you guys a 2500 pound 240 with 250whp will run the same time as a 2300 pound hatch with 230hp....its simple power to weight ratio

AND IN CLOSING...

all i originally asked for were some opinions on the 3 headers and well..........i really never got that so there is my 2 cents on the whole NA vs FI argument

kudos to slappy for his wonderful quote.....

"turbo's are for peolpe that lack the knowledge on how to really build a motor"

cause lets face it.......anyone with the right amount of money can go to a website and click "add to cart" on a 4k turbo kit.......and please explain in that process what you learned about building a motor?

[nWoRCD89]

one more thing i thought of............a car with 200whp NA will eat up a car of the same make and model with a 250whp TURBO engine.....NA is there all the time with no lag at all.....by the time you start boosting im already half way down the track and thats if your lucky and hit full boost on the low end around 3k-4k rpm...

for those who dont believe me ive seen it done, ive done it, and if you still dont believe me well then....put your money where your mouth is and go try it (hope you dont like your money too much cause you will lose it)

[cwtt]

cause lets face it.......anyone with the right amount of money can go to a website and click "add to cart" on a 4k turbo kit.......and please explain in that process what you learned about building a motor?

Can you explain to me why building an NA motor takes a smarter person that building a turbo motor?

pistons (low/high compression)rods (both)cams (na/turbo)built head (both)tubular manifolds (tubular turbo manifold, tubular na manifold)standalone (both)fuel systems (both)etc etc etc(I'm not going to even bother putting all the details about housing sizes, compressor trims, exhaust A/R etc)

Apparently I lack knowledge on how to build motors because I only make 700whp with my turbo setup...

I am looking for an honest reply with out the childish remarks lots of the kids on this forum make.

[cwtt]

i i dont know what you guys are talking about with only 200whp on a na build? thats crazy we have guys all day long pulling 250-280WHP yes thats a W before the hp. how are you going to say that a 2.4 is going to top out at 200hp? please explain that to me in detail....

Can you please show me a dyno of a street car with an all motor KA dynoing 250-280whp? If so that is pretty good. And what setup did they use to hit 280whp?

I did a search in the dyno section and I didnt see anything over 200whp. Infact people were excited about somebody hitting 180whp

Have you ever built/owned a fast turbo setup? Have you ever built a high hp NA setup? I am just asking because you have a lot of contradiciting statements in your posts and you seem to be guessing on horsepower numbers. I would love to see a 280whp ka street car.

I am NOT trying to flame anybody. I am new to the 240 world. But I am not new to engine building/ high hp setups. I am just questioning the validity of some of these statements.

[nWoRCD89]

ill try to get some pictures of the dyno sheets tonight at the meet but it is upposed to rain so there might not be a whole lot of people there but ill get one if i can. that na group rolls together so if one comes they all come and the opposite.

cwtt i understand that many people can make 700whp with a turbo setup but lets face the facts most people who do turbo setups that are only running in the 200s and 300s just bought a kit from some website. im not knocking the whole turbo setup at all because well ive been there and done that and now i just need a car thats decently fast to get me through college. i like what you wrote down though as par as internals and supporting mods for turbos because as listed in my previous post i did say that i wanted to do a NA build and then once i get a real job after college i will be able to just swap out pistions to a lower compression of 8 and then do a couple other things and have an engine thats ready for anything i can throw at it.

People who are making the 450+hp have in a since done a NA because soo many of the things you need to do in a NA build are needed in a turbo build when you are wanting to run very high boost and make very high numbers.

for your statement of 90% of people who go NA because they cant afford a turbo setup...well when you price it up like i have the parts for the block and head before machine work it comes out to around 3k once you add in all the machine work you come out to a total of around 4k-5k. now when you price up one of the most common turbo kits for 240s in this example ill take the Turbonetics Stage 2 turbo kit (rated to put you at 320whp out of the box) which satisfies most everyone who is new to the turbo world. It cost i think 4100 or 4200 on treadstoneperformance.com

so when it comes down to it both builds while different in some aspects and similar in others, many parts are needed in both and it just comes down to what you want. price wise though if you just want power like many do a simple turbo kit costing around 4k while do the job fine. Those kits dont come with any of the internals so in conclusion a good well designed and built NA engine will cost around 5k and the same with a moderately build turbo engine with no internals as many do.

[nWoRCD89]

cwtt......

i did a little searching after i read this....seemed very interesting to me that thats as high as you saw.....i never found a really big dyno thread like other forum webistes so please point me in the right direction on the big thread so i can see what setups they have and can compare them to my pleasent hill crew and others.
Modified by nWoRCD89 at 5:19 PM 11/3/2007

[98koukile]

Honda 1.6L engines make so much hp N/A for one reason... aftermarket. Your KA has hardly any after market considering you just named the big 3 header companies. And on the 200whp NA vs 250whp FI, with that low number a turbo would be at full boost before 3k and the NA build would be about the same unless its all low end so 80% of the power is gunna see you in the rear view... NA is cool and all but tuning a turbo is not some stupid hick science either

[nWoRCD89]

alright well you could not be more wrong that i have a car with no aftermarket parts. as follows...................eagle rods, wiseco pistons, main and rod bearings, bc valves, bc cams, bc retainers, port and polish, valve job, bored out intake manifold, blitz nur spec exhaust, koyo radiator, fal fans, intake, ect. ect. i wont list the other parts that arent as important as those main ones. apexi afc and some other engine managment stuff are also waiting and ready. the only thing im not sure about is the header situation because well when it comes down to it the overall verdict is that those 3 are the best but even those arent that good from all ive read. so i guess what you could say is that im trying to pick the best out of the worst.

200whp NA vs. 250whp turbo..............you are crazy if you think that the turbo would win. ive seen it plenty of times. you need to realize that while the lag on the turbo is low there is NO LAG AT ALL on the NA car. whatever lag the turbo car has no matter how small is still a boost and car length or two for the NA car.

all the parts above are either installed, on the way, or waiting to be installed. just waiting for everything before the first crank up happens

[cwtt]

cwtt......

i did a little searching after i read this....seemed very interesting to me that thats as high as you saw.....i never found a really big dyno thread like other forum webistes so please point me in the right direction on the big thread so i can see what setups they have and can compare them to my pleasent hill crew and others.

Modified by nWoRCD89 at 5:19 PM 11/3/2007

nWord90- you just discredited your self. You just made my point. There are no dynos of all motor KA's making 250-280whp like you claim. Infact I couldnt even find any 200whp dynos. Like I said the most I saw was a whopping 180whp. There may be some a little higher, but no where near the 280whp you claim.

[cwtt]

alright well you could not be more wrong that i have a car with no aftermarket parts. as follows...................eagle rods, wiseco pistons, main and rod bearings, bc valves, bc cams, bc retainers, port and polish, valve job, bored out intake manifold, blitz nur spec exhaust, koyo radiator, fal fans, intake, ect. ect. i wont list the other parts that arent as important as those main ones. apexi afc and some other engine managment stuff are also waiting and ready. the only thing im not sure about is the header situation because well when it comes down to it the overall verdict is that those 3 are the best but even those arent that good from all ive read. so i guess what you could say is that im trying to pick the best out of the worst.

200whp NA vs. 250whp turbo..............you are crazy if you think that the turbo would win. ive seen it plenty of times. you need to realize that while the lag on the turbo is low there is NO LAG AT ALL on the NA car. whatever lag the turbo car has no matter how small is still a boost and car length or two for the NA car.

all the parts above are either installed, on the way, or waiting to be installed. just waiting for everything before the first crank up happens

Actually I think you are exploiting lots of misconceptions. You can make 250whp with the small/stock turbos. Since you claim to have owned a turbo car in the past, you would know that there is virtually no lag with most oem turbos these days. And when you race, when do you ever fall below 4k rpms? Lag is overated.

A turbo car making 250whp will have lots more torque than a 200whp na car. So your claim:

"a car with 200whp NA will eat up a car of the same make and model with a 250whp TURBO engine"

You have to realize the only reason an NA car would have chance is because turbo cars make a lot more torque leading to less traction and more chances for driver error. I would almost guarantee that if a 200whp car and a 250whp car were next too each other on the freeway that turbo 250whp car would walk away from the na car. I dont think you would want to put money on that race like you claim you would.

I do agree NA cars can beat turbo cars in specific instances. For example a 300whp v8 will generally beat a 300whp v6 simply because the na v8 will create torque with a very broad power band.

But I still stand that a 240sx with a turbo setup 250whp vs the same car wtih a 200whp na setup and both skilled drivers that the Turbo car will eventually walk away. That is just from my experience. If you were smart you would have compared 200whp turbo vs 200hp NA. Although you still have not provided even one all motor dyno over 200whp! Although there is not any reason why you could not hit 200whp all motor with lots of money, but that just validates my reasoning for going turbo in the first place.

Good luck with your build though. I applaud you for doing some thing different. Post your dyno when you are finished.

[98koukile]

200whp NA vs. 250whp turbo..............you are crazy if you think that the turbo would win. ive seen it plenty of times. you need to realize that while the lag on the turbo is low there is NO LAG AT ALL on the NA car. whatever lag the turbo car has no matter how small is still a boost and car length or two for the NA car.

With cams in both cars neither will have crazy low end torque. And hitting full boost before 3k your still building boost the whole time leading up to it. I'm willing to bet with a T28 you'd only be off full boost for a second or so in a whole race, hell you'd launch your car in full boost with an lsd

[bluemax]

what a crazy thread

bump the compression and add a few more grand on you rev limit and you're golden.

We would love to see the result. Keep us posted

good luck

[nuts510]

I know everybody is screaming Turbo, yes one can make a lot of power with the Turbo, but I don't see anybody talking about money, let's see by the time you buy Turbo get it stuffed on your car that some sort of fuel management you'll probably spend 2000 plus dollars and I've noticed an awful lot of these Turbo swaps for the 2.4 motor seem to have problems with gasket leakage and in general a lot of them don't work very well. If you have the money and SR or many other motor swap and do this car nicely. but what so many people don't understand is one must stay in budget. Installing a header with at least a 2 1/2 exhaust and an intake does make it a significant difference in the way these motor run. You will only see about a 10 to 15 horsepower increase but one thing you will notice above 4000 RPM's the engine is much comfortable and makes a noticeable improvement in drivability. All the headers you mentioned help I like the DC sports mainly because it fits up under the car nicely. If you are going other modifications you might benefit more from a long runner Header like the pacesetter.if you look closely at the cheaper headers you will notice the runners are not the same length, this matters that's why the better header companies work so hard to make him the same length. Well I hope this helps