P/S and possible T-Stat problem

[Shift__BODOM]

1993 240sx FB chassis, electrical, accessories1996 240sx KA24DE motor block and head

hey everyone, ive been having a problem with my power steering for a while now. for a short time my power steering pump would whine, esp. when i turned the wheel, and i got very poor feedback at best from the wheel. i have since dropped in a new engine, and the power steering pump doesnt even seem to be working at all. there is no whine, but there is also no power assist. after a few days, however, it seems thta the power steering has returned slightly. although it isnt enough to convince me that my power steering pump is "magically" working again. anyone know what's wrong? i have yet to talk to a mechanic about this since they are probably going to have me get a new P/S pump...which is probably what i need...anyway, i just need a little bit of insight here. are there any known problems with this model/year's power steering? gaskets messing up, lines getting clogged etc.? side note, i ran lucas stop leak for power steering systems for a while, and the problem just continued to get worse. right now, the P/S fluid level is ideal with no visible leaks.

now, on to another problem. while driving the other day, i noticed something very strange happening to my water temp gauge. upon warming up, the needle sits strong in the middle of the range, indicating that the car is at normal operating temperature, however, after less than 5 minutes of normal operation (we're talking driving very slow, shifting at less than 3k RPM) the needle quickly, but gently, falls down to almost completely cold. it usually sits right between the thick bottom line and the first thin line. my thought is that it is a thermostat problem, but i really dont know where to start looking. ive checked for codes, and none are being sent...which kinda bugs me...

anyone know whats going on with my car? any help is greatly appreciated.
Modified by Shift__BODOM at 6:40 PM 3/30/2005

[benemorius]

Is it possible that the whining was from a loose power-steering belt? (forgive me if I insult your intellegence...always have to start with the easy stuff...)

I've seen air pockets in the coolant lines cause similar symptoms to what you describe. But are you saying that the needle now stays down low ever since that occasion and hasn't gone up since?

obd-1 computers don't generally throw codes for any simple problems. Heck, you can disconnect some sensors without it saying anything. It's obd-2 that is more likely to throw a useful code when something is going on.

[Shift__BODOM]

it wasn't the belt. i do know the difference between a belt squeeling and an internal whine. i definately know it wasn't a loose belt. any other solutions anyone?

with the gauge, everytime i start it up after it's cooled off, it will basically warm up normally and then fall back to the very low area, sometimes even fluctuating between operating temperature and cold positions depending on how hot it is on a given day. (i live in houston, so one day it'll be hot, the next it'll be cold) but to answer your question directly, no, it does not stay "locked" in that position indefinately.

you mentioned an air bubble in the coolant line...how would this happen? when the coolant was put in, the mechanic did it...so he might have funked something up...i know that his dumb self put in 5 quarts of oil instead of the max of 4...retard...anyway, feedback is welcomed. thanks!

[benemorius]

As far as the power steering goes I'd be making good guesses at best, and I'll spare you those.

Air is allowed in anytime you flush or refill the coolant. Getting all the air out of a ka has proved tricky in my experience. I've never seen air produce symptoms quite like yours, but bleeding it out is still the first thing I'd do. There should be a bleeder screw somewhere atop the engine. I couldn't give it's exact location for a DE so I'll leave it at that. What seems to work best for me is to run the engine for a day (which you've done), then remove the screw and add coolant until it comes out the hole. Repeat this until you barely have to add any coolant before it comes out.

[Shift__BODOM]

what? a drain screw on the engine? can you or someone else elaborate? i'm about to look @ the FSM too.

[s13sr20chris]

there is a screw on the intake manifold to bleed the air from the coolant. its a 6mm machine screw with a 10mm head. it has a gold sticker next to it that has a warning. very small. its next to the coolant temp sensor and thermal transmitter. remove it with engine cold and bleed air while keeping coolant topped off. also, try running the engine at idle and revving up with rad cap off and front end jacked up.

[Shift__BODOM]

ok, i found that little bolt. i NEVER noticed that thing, or the sticker, and i've spent LOTS of time looking at that motor...just goes to show how dirty the thing actually is. ha.

anyway, i "bled" it by starting it up first thing this morning and topping off the radiator. at first, nothing happened, then coolant started to foam out of the top. here come the questions. is it supposed to foam like that? do i bleed it like one would bleed brakes, i.e. top off radiator, unscrew, bleed, then re-insert screw and repeat? the coolant was blowing all over the place cause of the fan, so i couldn't really see how much foam was coming out, but there was a lot...which probably meant a lot of air was in there. should i just repeat this process everyday until the coolant flows out instead of foams out, or what? i haven't noticed any change in regards to the gauge either.

should i also replace my thermostat? i know this will probably let a whole crapload of air in, and i'll have to "bleed" it again, but oh well. also, could air in the line possibly damage the water pump? i've been hearing a kind of grinding coming from the area and confirmed it with a mechanic's stethiscope (3' long flathead screwdriver with my ear on the handle lol). should i replace it? i just put on a new fan clutch, its that thermo-activated whatever from autozone. are those things dangerous?

i said there were a lot of questions......

also, with the power steering pump, i still haven't fixed that. it feels like my dads old 63 impala...i've heard somewhere that the stock gasket for the pump itself will harden and crack, then leak like a mofo. is this true?

man, i just went back over this, and all i have to say is thanks to everyone for bearing with me.

[Shift__BODOM]

bump cause the grinding got louder, and because i can.

i looked at the power steering pump itself today, and there is some kind of oily gunk on it and all around and on the pump, but i dont know where it's coming from. i know it's not oil because it happened with my old engine, and its still happening with my new one, and since all my accessories got switched over, i'm betting it's the pump itself. i couldnt really get that close to really examine the pump, and i'll try to tomorrow when i test all my electrical sensors. then i gotta bleed the brakes and the clutch, then i gotta put in a new sway bar bushing...AAAH! its a good thing its summer cause this car is taking a lot of my attention.

[NISTECH]

You bleed the cooling system through that screw with the engine off and cold,not running. I am not sure your problem is due to air in the system, although now I do believe you have air in the system by the way you blead it. Bubbles coming out that hole is normal when bleading the system, the idea is to alow it to flow till it is a steady stream of coolant and no more bubbles come out. There are threads on the bleeding process all over try to find a couple that explain bleeding in more detail.

Is the pump on the engine now the same P/s pump you had on the old engine? If so I suspect you have a valve problem in the pump and it is not building pressure in the system. Best way to find out is to get the car up off the ground so you can get to one of the rack lines coming from the pump. start the car and have some one hold the pedal at about 1500 rpms. you crawl under the car and use a line wrench to crack one of the pressure lines on the rack open and see if fluid sprays out. DO NOT completely remove the line just crack it a little like your bleeding the master cyl. NOTE this will make a hell of a mess if the pump is sending correct pressure. If the pump is whats making the grinding noise then it is likely shot and you should just replace it.

[Shift__BODOM]

oooh! that explains a lot. it didnt make sense to me to have the engine running.

ok, with the power steering, i just barely undo the pressure line and see if fluid sprays in my face? well, not literally, i mean i'll probably be as far as possible away from that line. is there a way i can access that line from above? i took out my AIV system and now i have all this space.

[NISTECH]

You might be able to but becarful with the exhaust manifold, dont get burnt.

[Shift__BODOM]

i went in, and i could get to it from the top, but it's easier from the ground since i dont have to jack the car up. tested a lot of electrical components today, my MAF, surprisingly is reading a voltage that's spec. anyway, i'll do the power steering test tomorrow when my dad's around to help.

[NISTECH]

If the pump is making noise I really think its toast anyhow. I dont think your gonna see much fluid come pressure when you do this. It will come out but not under any real pressure.

[Shift__BODOM]

it *made* noise. it doesn't make noise anymore, but it doesn't work either, so i think it just stopped pumping. the pump is probably fux. my WATER pump though, it's making noise. how much is a water pump?

is there any rebuild kits for my P/S pump? i know its gonna be a lot for a new pump. pull-a-part?

[NISTECH]

I think there is a rebuild kit for it, but I dont think what you need is included in the kit. Wrecker may be a good choice but be sure to get the exchange incase its fubar too. Check one of our dealer sponsers and see how much a pump is through them, its cheaper then ovewr the counter at a local dealer.

[Shift__BODOM]

P/S pump - 91-94 - 513.69 - *YOUR PRICE - 469.26*

somehow it's just not worth the money. would removing the system entirely be a bad idea at this point? i can deal with the hard steering, it just adds to the response

[s13sr20chris]

i have p/s removed. its not bad at all. i highly reccomend getting the steering bushing eliminator from http://www.lsauto.comits only $25 and you really need it if you dont have p/s. i dont usually reccomend parts from non-sponsors of nico but nobody else has one.

on the other hand, p/s pumps are a lot cheaper if you search around for a used one.

[Shift__BODOM]

100 bucks from the junkyard, and its an SOHC pump. i dont know the difference, i just called them. either way, i think i'm gonna look into that steering bushing eliminator. will the system just come out or is it complicated?

[Shift__BODOM]

hey chris, does the steering bushing eliminator help ease the pain of steering without power assist? maybe cause less mushy rubbery feel?

oh, also, how did you route your water pump belt to still operate it?

[s13sr20chris]

no, it does not make the wheel any easier to turn. it simply eliminates a problem that comes up when you have no p/s. the unassisted steering shaft holds the bushing. the bushing was not designed to transmit the torque of unassisted steering. so when you ditch p/s you end up with mega-slop in the bushing.

my sr20det runs the water pump and alt with one belt and p/s has its own belt.

[Shift__BODOM]

DOH! i forgot you had an sr...i dont know how, but it did...

either way, i guess i'll try to repain the P/S pump or find one semi cheap from the junkyard. you work on nissan engines, right? what other P/S pump works for the 240? i'll prolly have to make brackets for any other one though, right?

hmm, would i be able to route my belts like the SR if i use like a spacer or something on the alternator pulley so the water pump and alternator can share the same belt? oh crap, dont they have a different number of ridges? no wait, it gots 3 ridges, then 4, then 4 again...

its too late for me to be on this computer. g'night@!