Our Crumbling Infrastructure. Get in here Jesda!

[nissangirl74]

Back in November, a reporter from NBC wrote an article about the alarming rate at which our country's infrastructure is crumbling.

http://www.cnbc.com/id/101214258

Having driven the freeways of Southern California quite a lot during the past few years, I can attest to the fact that this is a serious problem. There are sections of the 405 that I don't even like driving on in the Frontier, let alone any of our lowered cars (which is almost everything else we own). There are potholes that would completely swallow a tire.

I don't travel anywhere near as much as I used to but I know Jesda, Torry, Joel, and many others drive an exorbitant amount of miles annually. Some of us have very long daily commutes. I was wondering what your opinions are.
1) Where are the worst roads?
2) Where are the best roads?
3) What do you think is the best way to solve the problem? Is it more taxes? Is it better money management of what we have? Should the responsibility be taken from the feds and given to the states to manage?

How long can the powers-that-be ignore this huge problem before it is taken seriously? There's a graph in this article of the states with the most deficient bridges. In the state of Pennsylvania (the worst), 24% of all of their bridges are designated as "deficient" with an average age of 75 years old and an average daily traffic load of over 18 million cars. That seriously makes me never want to drive on any bridge in that state again, ever.

As someone who has a passion for cross-country road trips, I'm a bit intimidated by these numbers. I wonder if by the time I reach the age to where we can just take off and go wherever we want, the roads aren't going to be in any condition to do so.

Your thoughts?

[frapjap]

I wish the highway system employment was better. Eisenhower put a TON of unemployed people into blue collar jobs by having them march on out and improve infrastructure. The current unemployment rate, coupled with most of the unemployed folks with weening benefits is a perfect opportunity to get the highways back into shape.

Some states do better jobs at maintaining their sections of the road. Having driven through 6 states, two days ago, I can say this. The Jersey roads were great- way less pot holes than NY, PA, RI, and MA. NY isn't awful, but the volume is what causes the wear and tear to the road surface. As for RI and MA- I have no f*** clue what they do with the high gas tax money, tolls, and excise taxes on my vehicles, because it sure as hell doesn't go towards maintaining the roads. Its also painfully evident which roads were paved by a private company and which were done by the state- the privately repaired roads are phenomenal. I'd say that the weather has an impact on the quality of the road, but can also say without a single bit of reserve, that the roads in NH, VT and ME are in superior condition in comparison to MA and RI- with worse weather! RI should be just as decent as NJ considering the size of the state and similar amount of miles road they have.

So, to answer your questions more briefly-
1. New England and California roads.
2. Jersey (somehow) has their s*** together.
3. Better management of time and finances. I don't know much about building roads, but I bet James could be my executive engineer and we could devise a better method of servicing the interstate system.

[lne937s]

Although nobody likes paying taxes, the federal gas tax needs to rise. The last time it increased was in 1993 to $0.184 per gallon (a gallon cost a little over a dollar back then). In addition, gasoline consumption has been on the decline for the past 7 years due to better fuel economy. So funds to fix our roads have been going down.

And the "starve the beast" approach to budgeting has not been working here. As our infrastructure crumbles, emergency fixes and a lack of revenue has lead to patches and short-term band aids, rather than investing in the long-term fixes that would end up saving money in the long run. Just like on your car, trying to save money with zip ties and duct tape only gets you so far.

[MinisterofDOOM]

Utah's neighborhood and surface roads are notoriously poorly maintained. Potholes everywhere, patched with cheap filler that just gets broken up and refilled...on and on until the end of all things. They won't redesign or resurface, they just fill the holes and cracks. The neighborhood I mostly grew up in has just clocked its 30th year of unresurfaced streets. It's upper middle-class and lined with suburbans, cadillacs, and porsches. And it has gone 30 years without a resurface. It's a matter of broken priorities in many cases, and city councils composed of ancient geezers (often farmers) who think dirt roads are good enough. It's not even "you don't need nicer roads" but rather a comprehensive lack of any awareness that roads might need upkeep.

Idaho has the maintenance problem in many areas, but their highways are also a joke. Visibly rutted from heavy truck use like a dirt road after a rainstorm, many of them cause such dramatic weaving or one-sided drag that people pull over and stop to check for flat tires. And since they're almost all 2-laners, you can either drive in the ruts or you can hog the left lane, where the surface has seen less abuse.
Municipal roads vary from county to county. Bigger counties have nice, clean, well-groomed roads. Most towns haven't even heard of street sweepers. There is GRAVEL EVERYWHERE. All the time. It's impossible to make a right turn without ending up in marbles, and then it's impossible to accelerate without spraying them everywhere because there's no traction in marbles. Even the painted median/turn lanes are full of gravel. It accrues over the course of the winter when snow is unmanaged (salt gets into irrigation canals so it's not an option, and apparently plows haven't been invented yet). Then in the spring it gets left behind, and nobody bothers to clean it up. This city owes me a new paint job (the paint chip count on my hood has tripled in less than half the time I've owned my car all because of gravel in Idaho). And they owe me for my next set of shocks.

Basically, if you're not in Boise or Pocatello, you're not going to see decent roads around here.

[darylzero]

Chicago and surrounding suburbs roads are horrible. Chicago has so many pot holes after this brutal winter it's insane. The mayor even made it a "priority".
I don't think roads will ever be built as well they could be because the states have made it part of their economy to keep people employed.

This looks like a pretty cool website, you can see your State's grade here, http://www.infrastructurereportcard.org/

[Dattebayo]

From working very close to the problem in the past, I can tell you that the companies tasked with the repairs are scamming the system.

It's obvious! You don't need 20 guys standing around watching a bucket dig a hole in the ground. I watched them earlier this week as they were repairing US 29 from the washout we had recently and had traffic to a stand-still. All of 'em just sitting around, joking, laughing, kickin rocks and doing absolutely jack-squat the whole time.

Also, my zombie grandma could patch pavement better than these as$holes can. They recently cut a huge swath out of University Blvd. and replaced it with uneven piles of asphalt resembling a kindergarten dried-up play-doh.

[WDRacing]

The Gov and all of its financial management, at every level, is broken. The infrastructure is just a casualty of decades of corruption from the top down.

We certainly don't need to raise taxes. That is an asinine idea. We have absolutely no accountability nor transparency. The Gov took in record amounts of revenue in the last year. The problem doesn't lie with revenue deficiency. The problem is mismanagement.

Raising taxes is like upping the credit limit for a group of alcoholics with a permanent extension of happy hour.

[numbnuts240]

first, asking the general population where the worst roads are is silly because everyone claims their roads are the worst. idk if it's a genereal internal desire of a pity party, or what, but it generally turns into a d!ck-swinging one-up contest. it's just safe to say that metropolitan areas tend to be the worst, especially in the northern parts of the country which see extended freezing temperatures. i live in CT and the worst parts of our highways are in new haven and hartford. in between the two cities is ok. it gets progressively worse as you head from new haven to nyc, after which it improves gradually as you head down south (i've driven from CT to FL 2 years ago). actually, it improves exponentially once you get to the middle of jersey and remains relatively fine all the way down. i haven't been to the west coast since i was a kid so i can't say how bad it is there, but i'm sure the cities blow.

I wish the highway system employment was better. Eisenhower put a TON of unemployed people into blue collar jobs by having them march on out and improve infrastructure.

HA! try getting unemployed americans to take physical labor jobs these days. we can't even get them to fry burgers for less than $10/hour

[PapaSmurf2k3]

As for RI and MA- I have no f**king clue what they do with the high gas tax money, tolls, and excise taxes on my vehicles, because it sure as hell doesn't go towards maintaining the roads.

I agree with just about everything Ray said. The corruption in those 2 states is pretty blatant. You'd think a state with higher population density would have an easier time procuring funding for maintaining the roads than somewhere with 1 person for every 6 miles of road.

Although nobody likes paying taxes, the federal gas tax needs to rise.

I disagree. Most (if not all) of the federally maintained roads I've been on are light years ahead of state-run roads.

I currently live in Mississippi, I-55 is in gorgeous shape here, and they are re-paving it again (no idea why). A lot of the local roads in northern Jackson suffer from bad dirt (Yazoo Clay, which is also why the foundation of my house is f***). It doesn't really cause the potholes and other road destruction most people are familiar with, but it causes big dips, changes in the crown of the road, or big lips (like jumps). They don't seem to fix it until there's actually a break in the tarmac.
The way I-55 (federal road) and state-run roads are built and maintained is VASTLY difference. They dig down MUCH farther for the federal highways, bring in good dirt/gravel, pump it full of lime (not sure why... maybe it helps stabilize it or something), and take drainage very seriously.

[numbnuts240]

You'd think a state with higher population density would have an easier time procuring funding for maintaining the roads than somewhere with 1 person for every 6 miles of road.

you also have to consider the higher population density areas have a ton more traffic which makes the logistics of road work a nightmare.

[nissangirl74]

the federal gas tax needs to rise

Taxes collected do not equal results.

first, asking the general population where the worst roads are is silly because everyone claims their roads are the worst

I was hoping to get some input from people who do a lot of cross-country driving; lots of driving experience in multiple locations

HA! try getting unemployed americans to take physical labor jobs these days. we can't even get them to fry burgers for less than $10/hour

[Jesda]

I'm mostly pleased with MODOT. Projects come in under budget and on time, high-volume road surfaces are well maintained, gas taxes are low, and there are no tolls. That's especially impressive considering how Missouri has more bridges than any other state and winters can be harsh.

Missouri is fortunate compared to neighboring Illinois where pavement is worse, development is minimal, and cost per mile is higher.

I-70 between KC and STL needs improvement, however, not because of surface condition but because of lane capacity and visibility. It's just not safe for so many trucks and cars to share only four lanes. The ups and downs and lack of capacity result in crowding, congestion, and constant lane changes.


In Kansas, the interstates are in outstanding shape, likely due to the tolls and the agreements in place that keep funding honest and user fees in check. However, the county and state roads need a lot of work.




CALIFORNIA SUCKS.

[Jesda]

And then there's Michigan, but they have other issues like a massive population exodus, rising crime, failing schools, and high unemployment.

[PapaSmurf2k3]

you also have to consider the higher population density areas have a ton more traffic which makes the logistics of road work a nightmare.

Doesn't really stop them at the moment... I would just think they should do a better freakin job while they're in there.

[MinisterofDOOM]

I disagree. Most (if not all) of the federally maintained roads I've been on are light years ahead of state-run roads.

Agreed. Although, I'd go a step further and specify that it's MUNICIPAL roads that tend to be the worst in my experience. State-run roads are still generally better off than municipal roads. Examples: Highways 89, 91, and 84 in Northern Utah are generally very well kept, though not so well as I15 or I80. But exit any of those state roads onto Weber or Davis County operated roads or--worse--Ogden or Layton City operated roads and you're in for some serious disappointment.

Same in Idaho. I15 might be below par, but split off onto state highway 20 and you're going to notice a difference--and not a good one. Meanwhile, any municipal or country roads in the same area are likely to be barely distinguishable from unpaved gravel.

[nissangirl74]

Arizona is kind of a crap shoot. Most of the roads are in really good condition. Especially all of the roads that go through the Valley. The 10 (at least until you leave the Valley headed to Tucson), the 17,the 101, 202, and 303 are all in fantastic shape. I-40 that crosses the Northern part of the state really sucks. There are lots of potholes which is no surprise. The winter weather up there can be pretty brutal and stick around for a long time. Most of the surface streets are in good condition. The city is pretty good about staying on top of the situation and making repairs as needed. South Phoenix seems to be largely ignored in that statement but it is, after all, South Phoenix.

[lne937s]

I think people do make some good points. Government acquisitions and contracting is failing many places-- looking at Big Dig, Boston may be the worst place in the country. Contractors bid low, and then go massively over budget without any repercussions. There is obviously not enough oversight or penalties to ensure that we are getting what we pay for. Contractors need to be held accountable-- they go to jail in other countries.

Idaho and Mississippi are flush with federal infrastructure funds-- they don't need more. But that has to do with a flawed allocation structure, handing out funds to states based on miles of roadway rather than population. In addition, there are supplements for low incomes, but not for cost of living. And the "I oppose any government spending unless it directly benefits my home district" approach has been far more effective at getting pork for the home district than it has at controlling federal spending. By nature of our constitution, smaller states tend to get more power than their population would dictate, but Alaska, Mississippi, Idaho, Montana... are cashing in. Think about if you had to rely primarily on local revenues to maintain your highways the way they do your municipal roads. There are definite needs in other parts of the country-- we could use some here in NY (49th in per capita federal highway spending).



But, regardless of those issues, we are still falling behind on infrastructure spending compared to other industrialized countries. That picture is even worse due to how spread out this country is and the temperature swings in many places. Spend a little time in Japan or Germany, and our roads will look like they belong in a third world country. China is spending 5 times as much of their GDP on infrastructure. We should try to be more efficient with the money we have, but the richest country in the world is not keeping up on spending. We can wait around and hope for a perfect government, for contractors to get their act together or for politicians to put country ahead of their home district... but our infrastructure keeps getting older and we will keep falling farther behind while we wait.

Gas taxes have not kept up with inflation. Revenues have actually gone down due to reduced consumption. Adjusted for inflation, that $0.184 in 1993 would be $0.30 today. Adjust it up by a cent a month for a year and you are basically back to the same funding levels we were at 20 years ago, adjusted for inflation. You can divert income tax revenues or place additional burden on business (like we have been doing for over a decade), but that is not the best way to fund roads and highways. While it is not perfect and there are outliers (hybrids, electrics, etc.), the most equitable and practical usage fee associated with forces applied to road surfaces over time (inherently adjusting for miles driven, aggressive driving behavior, vehicle tread, vehicle weight... all of which increase fuel consumption while increasing road wear) is to tax the energy that propels those vehicles. As such, the best way to fund roads and highways is to tax the fuel used to travel along them.