opinions please! confused about parts for power goals..

[lucky03602]

hello all

i have searched and asked and came across a decent base idea for my turbo project finally, but im a little confused.

first of all my plan

90 ka-et running 8-10 psi at first off:jgs manit3 or t3t48:1 fmu or 10:1 fmu (stock injectors)walboro 255some cheap bovebay fmic

as far as gauges go i was gonna get a boost gauge, oil pressure gauge right off and buy more stuff as i go.

i probibly wont go above 15psi at all honestly, it is my daily driver! i was considering getting a internally wg'd turbo but not shur if it can handle 15 psi...but i dont want to get a external wg with a tial 35 or so if i dont need too. once i decide to go above 10psi ill have either an ecu retune/safc2/bigger injectors/wideban o2 with af gauge/etc...

15psi is a decent number for a street car (to me at least) so im not going to go cheap on stuff, and i really dont have any power goals just around 250-350rwhp which i can easily achieve once i hit 15 psi with an ecu and or safcII tune....but being a daily driver im thinking id like the turbo to kick in around 2800-3k rpm's if you ask why i dont have an answer just my general driving thinking..

in a couple of weeks im going to end up buying the jgs mani, ill probibly get a used decent condition turbo out of a junkyard (good connects in my local junkyard) and the fmu and stuff ill get after i get them 2..

wow now im running in circles, see im confused lol

not asking questions here just opinions, do u believe im going the right way at the moment (running 8-10 psi until i get the other parts then going 12-15 psi after that) or is there something else i should consider?

any questions just ask away!

[WDRacing]

You're off to a good start, just boost over 8psi without retarding the timing. The 8:1 FMU will work fine for a low boost setup and will be very dependable.

Just my personal issue but, does your keyboard not have a shift key? People may take you a tad more seriously if you didn't come across in an uneducated manner. After all we're not texting each other on a cell phone right.

WD

[lucky03602]

yes it does sorry about that, im obviously not used to being professional looking on a computer.

i dont know what you mean at all about boosting over 8 without retarding the timing, im assuming now that timing has a huge part in mid to high boost applications? ill end up searching that subject right after this post.

one more question actually, does your ignition have a big part or no? i read in a thread that stock ignition works until 10psi then should be upgraded but i havent found a lot of information about it. simplified question about that is should my ignition be upgraded once i decide to give her more boost? ill search about that subject as well.

[lucky03602]

okay ive heard both i should retard the timing no matter what and ive heard that i shouldnt have to touch the timing as long as i dont go over 8psi.

i believe that i wll retard the timing on the distributer 2 degrees just to be on the safe side:)

ive also learned that by doing a jwt ecu flash they do the timing for you, at a set psi, and if i wanted to tune past that i can get a safcII or emanage and then tune from there, so that answers that question down the road.

and i did hear to upgrade my ignition so ill just upgrade that when i do decide to upgrade my boost:)

[WDRacing]

The stock ignition system itself is good until about 15 psi of boost depending on plugs and wires. What I mean by that is that the spark won't be blown out by the high compression. Thats a totally different problem then the timing issue.

When a turbo is added to a car that used to be naturally aspirated, there are two obvious things that need to be addressed. Fuel and timing. You've got the fuel part handled with the new pump and FMU. However, you have nothing to retard your timing for you. I would not go over 8 psi without either retarding the base timing ant the distributor, or installing a MSD BTM. The BTM is cheap and will retard timing for you in any amount from say .5 degrees of retard for every 1 lb of boost and the way to 3 degree's per lb of boost. I use the BTM myself.

Does this make sense?

WD

[lucky03602]

yes that does make sense, thats why in my reply i wrote that i will be running 8psi at 2degrees retard just to be on the safe side, and ill be adjusting that by my base (distributor)

zerothread?id=67112

i got some info from this thread and a couple others.

the only reason why i mentioned ignition is because ive read about it here and there but havent really got a good thread about it yet.

but like i said i did some searching after you wrote about the timing, and got the informaiton i was looking for.

[HaXoRsMoBiLe]

I went w/ the jgs mani, and they do not sell internal wastegate versions, also i couldnt find a block off plate for it. Their dump pipe has the turbonetics 5 bolt flange(nowhere near nissan 5 bolt flanges, and make sure you find a t3 flange turbo at that junkyard!Just a little FYI in case you didnt know!-Paul

[lucky03602]

its going to take me a little bit to get the parts anyways, so ill end up looking around, but thanks for bringing that to my attention!

[lucky03602]

okay now i have another question: how exactly is the boost set?

i searched (keywords boost controller, control boost, actuator, 8psi) and i couldnt find information

here i am saying im going to set boost at 8psi for now, but realized ive never figured out how to set it there. i read that internally wastegated turbos are preset for a certain psi, does that mean that external wg'd turbos are set to whichever spring is in the wastegate? because if thats so then how do you add more psi with a controller or such, without changing out springs?

[PapaSmurf2k3]

"Turbos" aren't set for a PSI (other than their efficiency range), Wastegates are set for the intake PSI. They determine this by the spring rate inside them. Basically, it works like this. There is a Diaphram that has air pressure on one side, and spring pressure on the other. When the 2 equal each other, this diaphram opens a valve on the wastegate, allowing exhaust to bypass the turbine, limiting the ammount of pressure/flow it makes. It does not matter if the wastegate is internal or external, you can still control it with a boost controler. What a boost controller does, is regulate down the pressure going to the wastegate. The wastegate might have an 8psi spring in it, so the boost controller does not let the pressure that the wastegate sees reach 8 PSI until the pressure on the other side of the boost controller reaches a certain point (whatever you set it at).

That being said, it is impossible to regulate below what a wastegate is set at. ie, If you have an 8psi spring, it is impossible for you to adjust it down to 6psi via your boost controller, you have to install another spring.That was pretty much the simple version.

Did that make sense to you?

[PapaSmurf2k3]

As a follow up,Manual Boost controllers use more springs and diaphrams to regulate pressure,Electronic boost controllers use solenoids and valves and magic or something to regulate pressure (heh, what do you want from me, I'm studying to be a mechanical engineer.)
Modified by PapaSmurf2k3 at 7:56 PM 1/14/2007

[lucky03602]

yeah that makes some sense. in any case i was looking on the net itself and started reading about controlling the boost and i found out that even cars that come stock with turbo has some type of limiting valve on it to adjust the boost. so no matter what i need some type of boost controler, which answered that question as well.

thanks for the info!

[WDRacing]

Well no, you don't need a boost controller at first. The wastegate will be set to a certain amount of boost by the internal spring, which you can swap out for higher or lower boost. Once you get it tuned and running well, then by a Boost Controller to add more boost.

The manual boost controller simply bleeds off air pressure to prevent the wastegate from seeing the pressure and opening up.

The electronic version uses a map sensor or somthing similar to actuate a solenoid at whatever boost you choose. The solenoid allows the air to reach the wastegate and open up.

Don't buy a used turbo, there are brand new ones to be had for very good prices nowadays and I don't mean the ebay units. Some have a 4 bolt flange, some have a Ford 5 bolt flange. Those are the most common of the two. JGS uses the standard Ford 5 bolt design IIRC. They answer emails very well, shoot them a question if you have one.

WD

[PapaSmurf2k3]

well you dont need a boostcontroller if you just want to run what the wastegate is set at. Alls a boostcontroller does, is effect the ease of ability to change boost pressure. Instead of changing springs in a wastegate, your turning some screws/dials or pushing some buttons. If you want to run 8psi and are going to stay that way for a while, you might just want to put an 8psi spring in the wastegate and call it a day.

[PapaSmurf2k3]

damn, Brian beat me to it.

[WDRacing]

One more thing to remember, you can't set the boost any lower then the wastegate spring is set, boost controller or not. So amke sure you use the appropriate spring for the boost you want to run.

WD

[lucky03602]

oh wow, okay i was under the impression that i needed a boost controller.so now ill add that to the list of parts needed when i decide to go above 8 psi.

so for now im going to get the followingjgs manifold (ill probibly block off the external wg port)some type of internally wastegated t3 or t3t48:1 fmu (maybe 10:1 ill look into it)walboro 255some cheap ebay intercooler and pipingsome cheap ebay bov ill get a downpipe based on turbo i get

i believe i wont need a dump pipe because they bolt onto a external wastegate....ill read about it anyways

oh yeah ill also be getting a thin battery to replace my battery instead of relocating it, and ill be getting altima fans along with a dif fan controller for my cooling.

this is my base plan at the moment.

also even though its only a thought these are the parts i got on my list for when i go above 8 psi

possibly tial 35mm wastegate440cc topfeed injectorsz32 mafbigger intercooler corejwt ecu tune (ill get safc2 later to tune past this)some boost controller2.5 or 3" exhaust with high flo cat and turbo mufflerill look into ignition parts as im researching.

ill also in the future be getting some internal parts like 9:1 pistons and such to be on the safe side

[PapaSmurf2k3]

One more thing to remember, you can't set the boost any lower then the wastegate spring is set, boost controller or not. So amke sure you use the appropriate spring for the boost you want to run.

WD

That being said, it is impossible to regulate below what a wastegate is set at. ie, If you have an 8psi spring, it is impossible for you to adjust it down to 6psi via your boost controller, you have to install another spring.That was pretty much the simple version.

come on now.... read the freggin postsheh, I always wanted to do that to you.

[HaXoRsMoBiLe]

youd be way better off getting a used BOV than an ebay BOV,(ebay ones use rubber diaphrams, and would prolly end up as a boost leak the first time they opened up).and like i said earlier, jgs uses 5 bolt turbonetics flange on their dump pipe, and t3 flange on the mani. if the turbonetics is the same as ford, then WD is right(which he probably is, i just dont feel like looking it up). if you get a turbo w/ a different flange than what jgs offers, just take it to an exhaust shop to make the dump pipe, jgs sells the flanges for just about everything so you can supply them with that if need be.good luck with the build.-Paul

[Edub1]

For your future plans you are going to want the following:

Larger injectors - 460cc or 550cc mazda rx7 work goodZ32 MAFTial 38mm External wastegate - don't go the internal route.Tuned ECU + BTM for timing - I can help with the tuneWideband O2 sensorBoost controler is optional

I can make you a tune for 8-10psi. Above that you will want a BTM to eliminate guessing with timing. I understand JWT does this by pulling massive timing from the entire high load areas of the map. People report less than stellar results. The new BTM can start pulling at 5* - a nice feature.

[WDRacing]

come on now.... read the freggin postsheh, I always wanted to do that to you.

I didn't read your posts, I'm just so used to you posting crap, I figured I'd give this dude a straight answer.

WD

[PapaSmurf2k3]

I didn't read your posts, I'm just so used to you posting crap, I figured I'd give this dude a straight answer.

WD

Touchè...

[lucky03602]

edub ill keep that list of your in mind thanks!!i was going to go with external tial wg when i updated so i had that covered. i ment to put down wideban with af gauge, but i forgot.

as far as the flange your talking about, your talking about the downpipe flange correct? if so then thats why i said ill buy one based on the turbo i end up buying (hence if i get a turbonetics ill buy the jgs downpipe, if i buy some other type of turbo ill find out what kind of a flange it has and get a downpipe with that style)

haxorsmobile, thanks for the info on the ebay bov's im glad i know that now.