Open for debate - what's more dangerous

[fatire_mtb]

Here's an on-going debate I have with a few people at work.

What's more dangerous - A) driving over the speed limit (within reason for your local commute). For example, here in metro atlanta you'll have pretty steady speeds from 65-85 depending on traffic conditions.

.....Or B) slower traffic not keeping the &#$% out of the left lane(s). This to me is far more dangerous for not only the slow@ss, but also everyone else around them and more importantly the general flow of traffic.

You can obviously tell I'm a bit biased here, but I would like your feedback either way. I'm curious what other G drivers think on the subject. I'm tired of discussing it with the odyssey/accord/camry crowd.

[jdshift]

Both are dangerous regardless................just my .02.

[CoppellStereo]

i think slow drivers are more dangerous

[smockers83]

First, I'd like to say thanks for bringing this topic up. Secondly, my answer. My answer would be B, here's why. Reasonably speeding, say 10 over not to much of a big problem when everyone is going at the limit or faster. Excessively slow drivers pose a much greater risk because its hard to judge (our perception isn't good enough) and it is very unexpected. There is a reason why they post a minimum on freeways and I believe they need to raise the minimum (here in MI, the min is 45 in a 70 with trucks at 55).

I hate hate hate with a passion the people who get in the left lane and do the speed limit or slower. That's not what the left lanes are for people. If you're turning left, don't get in the left lane 3 miles away from your turn and hold up the flow of traffic. If you see someone gaining on you in the left lane and you can move over, move over, the right lane is not a passing lane and doing so is a dangerous maneuver, although I do it all the time. People need to go back to driver's ed.

[USAF_G35_Guy]

sorry for double post, went to edit, doubled on accident

[USAF_G35_Guy]

First, I'd like to say thanks for bringing this topic up. Secondly, my answer. My answer would be B, here's why. Reasonably speeding, say 10 over not to much of a big problem when everyone is going at the limit or faster. Excessively slow drivers pose a much greater risk because its hard to judge (our perception isn't good enough) and it is very unexpected. There is a reason why they post a minimum on freeways and I believe they need to raise the minimum (here in MI, the min is 45 in a 70 with trucks at 55).

I hate hate hate with a passion the people who get in the left lane and do the speed limit or slower. That's not what the left lanes are for people. If you're turning left, don't get in the left lane 3 miles away from your turn and hold up the flow of traffic. If you see someone gaining on you in the left lane and you can move over, move over, the right lane is not a passing lane and doing so is a dangerous maneuver, although I do it all the time. People need to go back to driver's ed.

^^ was about to say pretty much the same thing..verbatim

I travel quite a bit for work and get to see all different types of driving styles, some states are worst than others....but no matter where you go, the same situations exist that smocker83 stated.

I've also driven in other countries...pretty much everywhere I've gone has been, for the most part, better than the USA, except in many middle eastern countries or 3rd world countries where there aren't any traffic laws or speed limits whatsoever. Although many of them, mostly middle eastern, believe that when a wreck happens....whatever the outcome is it's "gods" (to which ever religion it applies at the time) Will and if a person is injured and bleeding to death in a wreck, they'll just stand there and watch him bleed to death and die, and be like, if he lives...he lives...and if he dies....he dies, when he could of easily been saved, it's crazy stuff, lemme tell ya.....wow sorry for info not directly pertaining to the current thread, but it sparked a random thought :P

But BY FAR! the best country to drive in is Germany, and Europe in general. The Autobahn is FREAKIN AWESOME!!! Every driving condition that smocker83 stated actually exists over there. There are only speed limits on roads that actually need them and on the Autobahn (basically Europe's highway system) there is NO speed limit and people go out of their way to get out of your way if they see you coming up behind them at a high speed.And if they don't see you, it's common practice to simply flash your lights if you're behind someone and they'll move......NO hostility! between either party...it's just how they drive over there! I think the government actually restricts pieces of crap from legally even being able to be on the road. Like if you break down or run out of gas on the side of the road, I heard a cop can actually give you a ticket for it. And speaking of cops over there, you'll NEVER see a PIG (fyi, don't hate cops...just pigs) on the side of the road trying to catch you in a speed trap! AHH, I freakin love it over there.....not to mention the road quality...but thats another story!

OH YA!.....The SLOWER Drivers are much much much more dangerous, at least for us faster drivers

[Gimli G35]

both are equally dangerous , but one is more in terms of dangerous for EVERYONE. ..

slow person - causes eveyrone to drive fast around them , can cause sudden lane changes which will cause an accident

Fast - lose control , collide into the median, or worse cause a pileup .... Including the slow person

basically the slow person can cause the fast guy wrecking also

DAMN SLOW DRIVERS!

[Rex]

It's not who's breaking the law, it's who is creating the risk.

If the majority cars are moving at "a similar speed", regardless if it's the posted speed limit, 10 above or 10 below, a single car moving at a significantly different speed creates the danger. So, it's not the speed of most cars that creates the danger, it's the speed of 1 (or 2) cars whether much faster or slower.

[zozoka1212]

I have to disagree with you REX. i think USAF_G35_Guy hit the jackpot. So if the 10+/- so dangerous why it is not so dangerous in Germany where the 10+/- is probably 40-50+/-. It is all about driving culture. No matter how fast car you drive you check your mirror and somebody faster than move out. If you slow use the slow lane. I think it is simple. If we all go the same speed you only need 1 lane. So why we have 3,4 or 5 to handle the differences. I am from Europe. I had a hard time at the first couple of months to figure out what is going on here in North America. Lots of people don't even check the mirror. It just soooo different. I think that's the only thing I miss from Europe The autobahn and the drivers on it. Also most of the time in Europe there is 2 lanes and there is no problem.

zozo


Modified by zozoka1212 at 6:54 PM 9/4/2007

[Kendahl]

Slowpokes are a nuisance for everyone else on the road.

The underlying problem with driving in the US is that very few people take it seriously and try to do it well for its own sake. Over here, driving is do-it-yourself mass transit.

[zozoka1212]

Slowpokes are a nuisance for everyone else on the road.

The underlying problem with driving in the US is that very few people take it seriously and try to do it well for its own sake. Over here, driving is do-it-yourself mass transit.

I like your phrase DIY mass transit.

I like that so true.

zozo

[Beancooker]

Slow drivers. /thread]

[joe603]

Slow drivers in the fast lane are much more dangerous than going the speed of traffic. Our highways are designed for much faster speeds...unfortunately our government is still in the 80s when it comes to speed. 55 was shown to increase MPG in cars...in the 80s! The entire system needs to be overhauled.

Europe has much higher speed limits and fewer deaths...They drive like everyone should on the highway. (I was in Italy for 3 years)

[Rex]

I have to disagree with you REX. i think USAF_G35_Guy hit the jackpot. So if the 10+/- so dangerous why it is not so dangerous in Germany where the 10+/- is probably 40-50+/-. It is all about driving culture. No matter how fast car you drive you check your mirror and somebody faster than move out. If you slow use the slow lane. I think it is simple. If we all go the same speed you only need 1 lane. So why we have 3,4 or 5 to handle the differences. I am from Europe. I had a hard time at the first couple of months to figure out what is going on here in North America. Lots of people don't even check the mirror. It just soooo different. I think that's the only thing I miss from Europe The autobahn and the drivers on it. Also most of the time in Europe there is 2 lanes and there is no problem.

zozo

Modified by zozoka1212 at 6:54 PM 9/4/2007

Feel free to disagree, that's what makes this a "debate" .

I agree with you, but my comment was based on the assumption we were talking about "the US". Once you add other "driving cultures" all bets are off ... have you seen how some of the Middle Eastern or Asian countries manage traffic circles???

[joe603]

Now we're talking about different things! City and highway driving are 2 separate things. However, you are correct in saying that we are in the US...and most of US drivers suck on the highway, but better in cities...the opposite of Europe.

[soul_hfk]

Europe has there crap together for health care to the auto bond ... why cant thy turn I95 into a auto bond here in the US?anyway its the slow SOBs that are to afraid to pass that get me

[zozoka1212]

Oh yeah I've been in Istambul and Ankara couple of time. God they are dangerous. Red light no problem, speed limit in the city who cares they going crazy. First I went with car. Next I used airplain and cab. Asia( far east) is kind of gray area for me. I supposed to visit my friend in Manila in the next few years sometime. I may have a better idea after.

zozo

[kidistight]

Driving below the speed limit is a much greater risk than speeding, as someone pointed out if speeding was such a big deal then they wouldn't have so few accidents in Germany. I can relate to people talking about the Autobahn, I never drove it, but when we lived over there my mom was not light on the peddle we were gone zipping all over the country. I don't think American's could handle something like an Autobahn, there is just a different mindset when driving that will take a LONG time to break.

Another point that I don't think was mentioned in terms of slow drivers is the strain they cause on the people behind them that have to change lanes into another lane then change back over. It might not seem like a big deal, but think about all that goes into that:1. Realize the individual is going slow2. Wait a few seconds to see if they are going to change lanes whether to the right or left to turn3. Hang back a while to make sure you have the time to accelerate and not cut someone else off4. Check traffic on the right to judge when a good time to go 5. Accelerate and change lanes6. Look over and stare at the person driving slow and all up on the steering wheel. 7. Get over in front of them and continue your speed.

[zozoka1212]

So true.

also you can see sometimes you pass them you check your mirror and you see they put their sign out and move out to the slow lane. That tells you pretty much they did not see you in the mirror they just realized they were in the way.

zozo

[Gimli G35]

i wonder if 55 in an auto would be at high rpms ... Jeez ... no wonder! Montana and other states with no people have such great gas Mileage

No speed limit roads

[bundy26]

Left lane rules!!!!!

[Cali 2 Balti G]

Definitely use caution with the slow left lane hogs. Often times I have seen them ride that left lane a 50mph right up until there exit then cross 3-4 lanes of traffic at one time to get off the highway. They often swing to the right , right after you decide to pass them on the right since you've been patient for a mile.

[joe603]

i wonder if 55 in an auto would be at high rpms ... Jeez ... no wonder! Montana and other states with no people have such great gas Mileage

No speed limit roads

I don't think you can go as fast as you want...isn't it "reasonable" speed? If you're doing 120mph they can still give you a reckless driving ticket. Can someone from those states with no speed limits confirm? Even in Europe most of the autostrada/autobahn are speed limited. They have photo enforcement to catch the super-fast cars.

[C-Kwik]

Speeding in that of itself is not dangerous. Driving too fast for condtitions is. Bear in mind that speed limits you see on the road are generally based on a prima facie definition of the basic speed law. That is, the speed limit is a calculated limit, typically based on some attempt to determine what a reasonable driver's maximum speed would be.

Slow moving drivers aren't generally directly dangerous. As such, it's hard to try and get these kinds of people off the road as it wouldn't be easy to cite and enforce such traffic violations. Where they are dangerous is that they do indirectly cause dangerous situations. Particularly in the fact that depending on the density of traffic on the road, they could be slowing the traffic behind them down lower than the "natural" speed. Anytime traffic moves slower overall, it means people are on the road longer. This will mean more cars are on the road at any given time. This can increase the level of traffic. Between the initial slowdown caused by a slower moving vehicle and the indirect traffic that can result from it, it causes more slowdowns. This tends to have the greatest impact on the number of rear end accidents (the most common freeway accident). While it is still the responsibility of every driver to maintain a safe speed and following distance to avoid rear ending a car, if in general, we can limit the number of times the average driver has to slow down, then it's likely to have an impact on the total number of accidents.

Bear in mind that I have about 8 years of traffic accident investigation experience as an automobile liability insurance adjuster so I am basing my thoughts on my observations as a driver and having the additional insight of interviewing tens of thousands of drivers.

[Gimli G35]

i believe it is limited to a reasonable speed, but considering the closest house\town would be around 10-15 miles away ...