Only the right people can answer this for me...........

[OmarM]

Okay so looking at the Tomei auctions on ebay, I saw the procams have lash and solid type cams, assuming solid type cams for solid lifter and lash, for what we have.

If this is right then I could use the 270degree 8.8mm lift Tomei Cams right. Just a little machining of the head, but no need for solid lifters right? If so I am going to get 270degree cams with the 8.8mm lift and stiffer valve springs.

[iliketocrash]

correct. the lash cams are for what we have. but i'm almost positive that 8.8mm of lift doesn't require any machining of the head. this has been discussed before but for some reason i can't find the thread now. if you're goin with the procams i believe it would be in your best interest to get the adjustable timing gears as well, but i'm sure you know that and i'm just sounding like an ***.

[OmarM]

iliketocrash, yeah I am planning on getting the cam gears if i go with the Procams. There was a deal to good to pass up on ebay but they were for Tomei Procams with 10.25m lift. That would require solid lifters and is too involved fo me.

I am going to be getting my motor rebuilt soon, so I will have machine shop install upgraded valve springs, then when I get the motor broken in and new injectors, etc sorted out, I will look at installing cams to get a better power band at lower levels of boost.

[c-rad]

I am going to be getting my motor rebuilt soon, so I will have machine shop install upgraded valve springs, then when I get the motor broken in and new injectors, etc sorted out, I will look at installing cams to get a better power band at lower levels of boost.

You won't get a better power band, you will just shift the powerband up in the RPMs. For example, instead of having your stock power band from 3000-6000, it will be more like 5000-8500. Remember, big cams = loss of low end. I had HKS 272's on my eclipse and my spool on my turbo went from 3200 to almost 4200. But it pulled ridiculously around 7k rpms.

[tyrannix]

im just checking my knowledge here, but if you do 260 on the intake and 270 on teh exhaust, wont that retain some of the midrange? but still move the powerband up with. (with more lift having more air go in&out of the turbo so faster spool?)

or am i all *** backwards

[c-rad]

im just checking my knowledge here, but if you do 260 on the intake and 270 on teh exhaust, wont that retain some of the midrange? but still move the powerband up with. (with more lift having more air go in&out of the turbo so faster spool?)

or am i all *** backwards

The DSM guys used to run a 264/272 combo. It solved the lumpy idle and kept some of the low-end torque. But if you ever got to the point where you were using a sheet metal intake or anything like that, the less aggressive intake cam may be a restriction. There is a set of HKS 264's on ebay right now that I REALLY want to buy. Too bad I am broke now.

[tyrannix]

well... a CPC is close enough (just sent him the measurements for a q45 TB for it) ... maybe ill just have to get 2 sets of cams and play with thembut i would like to have a decent idle .. looking like ill start with 260/270 and play with that for awhile then get another 270 for the intake and compare

[boost_boy]

iliketocrash, yeah I am planning on getting the cam gears if i go with the Procams. There was a deal to good to pass up on ebay but they were for Tomei Procams with 10.25m lift. That would require solid lifters and is too involved fo me.

I am going to be getting my motor rebuilt soon, so I will have machine shop install upgraded valve springs, then when I get the motor broken in and new injectors, etc sorted out, I will look at installing cams to get a better power band at lower levels of boost.

If you want good power at lower rpm levels, you better stick with what you got or get a 256 degree camshaft pair. The 10.25mm lift camshaft is a bit of work and will require an extra bit of work to the head as well. If you're trying to get 300-400whp, go invest your money in a decent engine management system before you start screwing with the engine. The stock engine is capable of holding up to more boost and power than you guy care to imagine.

Dee

[boost_boy]

well... a CPC is close enough (just sent him the measurements for a q45 TB for it) ... maybe ill just have to get 2 sets of cams and play with thembut i would like to have a decent idle .. looking like ill start with 260/270 and play with that for awhile then get another 270 for the intake and compare

Something's gotta give here guys! You want a decent idle and you want good power, right? Stick with 260ish camshaft and stray away from the 270+stuff. But if you must have it, I have a set of camshafts that are 276 with an 11.45mm lift on the intake and 268 with a 11.35mm lift on the exhaust side that will make you spend more money just to get them into your head. The point I'm trying to make is, learn the engine before you go dumping money into areas that are not uber important. If you're not going to have a drag machine or a dyno queen, then huge cams are a waste. One of my engines are outfitted in JUN gear from solid lifters to 272 cams with a 10.5mm lift and it wasn't cheap by a long shot. This is engine has one purpose, dyno and drag (Never on the street).

dee

[float_6969]

I'm kinda with Dee on this one. If you talk to the UK guys, they pretty much say that unless you plan on 350hp+ (IIRC) the stock cams are actually your best bet.

[tyrannix]

besides trial and error and straight experience, where would you suggest somone start? (no sarcasm here)im trying to expand my knowledge and engine/turbo theory any good books or fact sites you would reccommend over others?

(with theory like how different lifts or durations on intake or exhaust effect airflow/power/powerband potential .. or like smaller turbines = faster spool but less max airflow?)

ive read Mike Kojimas articles, not his book(s) tho

Something's gotta give here guys! You want a decent idle and you want good power, right? Stick with 260ish camshaft and stray away from the 270+stuff. But if you must have it, I have a set of camshafts that are 276 with an 11.45mm lift on the intake and 268 with a 11.35mm lift on the exhaust side that will make you spend more money just to get them into your head. The point I'm trying to make is, learn the engine before you go dumping money into areas that are not uber important. If you're not going to have a drag machine or a dyno queen, then huge cams are a waste. One of my engines are outfitted in JUN gear from solid lifters to 272 cams with a 10.5mm lift and it wasn't cheap by a long shot. This is engine has one purpose, dyno and drag (Never on the street).

dee

[tyrannix]

for the ca20 project, i do plan for 400+ (and thats why im trying to learn everything i can now, and trying to learn all about the different standalones too)

btw, im going to pickup the donor ca20 today i was going to wait until i had the crank in-hand, but found a great deal

I'm kinda with Dee on this one. If you talk to the UK guys, they pretty much say that unless you plan on 350hp+ (IIRC) the stock cams are actually your best bet.

[boost_boy]

besides trial and error and straight experience, where would you suggest somone start? (no sarcasm here)im trying to expand my knowledge and engine/turbo theory any good books or fact sites you would reccommend over others?

(with theory like how different lifts or durations on intake or exhaust effect airflow/power/powerband potential .. or like smaller turbines = faster spool but less max airflow?)

ive read Mike Kojimas articles, not his book(s) tho

I'm putting myself in harm's way with this one, but those little honda tuning books you find at high performance stores or ebay or whatever, are very useful in understanding functionality of a high performance engine. There's a gang of books out there with experts sharing their theories and facts, upto and including the laws of physics. I'm no physics major and I sure as hell don't gig at Roush racing, but everything that I've learned about high performance engines and their operations bled into my love for the CA series engnine. And with that said, I wasn't afraid to pick-up a Haynes or Chilton manual for reference and nor was I afraid to ask for advice or take constructive criticism.

And with that said, people can argue about anything they want to and/or about any other engine they want to, but when it comes to the CA18DET, you can flap all you want to because if you're wrong, I will point it out and redirect you if I must. So, hopefully that helps and if doesn't myself or float will definitely try and make better since of what you want to accomplish.

If you wanted 400+whp, you didn't need a CA20DET to that. I could've saved you some headaches and gave you a couple of things to do with a stock CA to make it run happier that you may ever imagine.

Dee

[tyrannix]

ill see if i can grab one while im out today (picking up the ca20)and i dont want to build teh frankenstein engine just to make power, i want the experience. i just like building things, i think one of the best ways i can spend my free time is building an engine.... the only problem, again is that ive only been doing the fast car thing for about 1.5 years now (since i happened to get the silvia while i was in oki and i got hooked, hard)

i dont just want 400+whp, i really want 400+usable Wft/lbs over a bunch of the powerband. ... if i have an engine capable of like 500-600 peak whp, then i should be able to tune it to less peak, and wider powerband

the eventual goal is to have an entirely custom drivetrain, i actually just ordered the enjuku aluminum driveshaft (rated for 800 ft/lbs) and at some point after my car is running, i will get halfshafts and build a transmission to match that capability

with the CA20, i want to put together what i think will make power, get it to run, then play with variables to see what makes even bigger numbers until i get it to where i want it (for circuit/road racing)but thats where you guys and other sources come in, so i can make those decisions on what parts to use so they work together and not have any big bottlenecks in power

i iknow as a driver i cant handle that much power, i wanted to just rebuild my silvia, then make it hoss ... thats why i got a corolla. to practise my skills (and it gets great mileage too)

of course those numbers are a bit arbitrary to me, as ive never driven a 400 whp car before (been in a few skylines and a supra that were probably close tho)

but if you/i/whoever can do 400 whp with a stock engine, then i should be able to get more with more displacement, right? (forced induction just multiplies the capability of the stock engine, right? )

i want to have fun building and tuning an engine with *stupid* power, but usable powerband and have it be somewhat streetable (if i can.. i may have to put this engine in another car ) but thats the direction im heading for now...

edit> and i am going to try the jb weld -> smaller intake ports on the 4port euro head thats coming in (mototuneusa).com and see if that gains me anything
Modified by tyrannix at 12:43 PM 4/20/2006

[boost_boy]

ill see if i can grab one while im out today (picking up the ca20)and i dont want to build teh frankenstein engine just to make power, i want the experience. i just like building things, i think one of the best ways i can spend my free time is building an engine.... the only problem, again is that ive only been doing the fast car thing for about 1.5 years now (since i happened to get the silvia while i was in oki and i got hooked, hard)

i dont just want 400+whp, i really want 400+usable Wft/lbs over a bunch of the powerband. ... if i have an engine capable of like 500-600 peak whp, then i should be able to tune it to less peak, and wider powerband

the eventual goal is to have an entirely custom drivetrain, i actually just ordered the enjuku aluminum driveshaft (rated for 800 ft/lbs) and at some point after my car is running, i will get halfshafts and build a transmission to match that capability

with the CA20, i want to put together what i think will make power, get it to run, then play with variables to see what makes even bigger numbers until i get it to where i want it (for circuit/road racing)but thats where you guys and other sources come in, so i can make those decisions on what parts to use so they work together and not have any big bottlenecks in power

i iknow as a driver i cant handle that much power, i wanted to just rebuild my silvia, then make it hoss ... thats why i got a corolla. to practise my skills (and it gets great mileage too)

of course those numbers are a bit arbitrary to me, as ive never driven a 400 whp car before (been in a few skylines and a supra that were probably close tho)

but if you/i/whoever can do 400 whp with a stock engine, then i should be able to get more with more displacement, right? (forced induction just multiplies the capability of the stock engine, right? )

i want to have fun building and tuning an engine with *stupid* power, but usable powerband and have it be somewhat streetable (if i can.. i may have to put this engine in another car ) but thats the direction im heading for now...

edit> and i am going to try the jb weld -> smaller intake ports on the 4port euro head thats coming in (mototuneusa).com and see if that gains me anything

Modified by tyrannix at 12:43 PM 4/20/2006

Understood and we'll be here (If god permits) to help you in anyway possible.

Off topic: What branch of service were you in? And where at in Oki were you based? I was on Camp Foster when I was stationed there.

Dee

Dee

[tyrannix]

i was with HQ for 3div (USMC) on Camp Courtneyim at the mountain warfare training center in california now (it might as well be nevada, its about 10 minutes to the border, and theres really nothing within normal driving distance in california, except maybe sacramento in summer (the pass is closed most of winter)

CJ

Understood and we'll be here (If god permits) to help you in anyway possible.

Off topic: What branch of service were you in? And where at in Oki were you based? I was on Camp Foster when I was stationed there.

Dee

Dee

[boost_boy]

i was with HQ for 3div (USMC) on Camp Courtneyim at the mountain warfare training center in california now (it might as well be nevada, its about 10 minutes to the border, and theres really nothing within normal driving distance in california, except maybe sacramento in summer (the pass is closed most of winter)

CJ

Outstanding "Devil Dog"........I was with HQ Battery 4/12 HQ company when I was on Okinawa. I was sent to Tripler Army Medical Center in Hawaii for surgery and after surgery, I was attached to Marine Barracks Pearl Harbor HQ company, after which I was later medically retired after 5.5 years of faithful service. But my love for the CA came when I was stationed on Okinawa when I saw CA16DE powered 1986 nissan sunny at a car lot not too far from the Naval hospital outside of camp foster. Semper Fidelis leatherneck . Now let's get back to car businiess. How much more do you have to go on your CA20 thinga-majiggy?

Dee

[Zero260]

it's funny how many DSM guys I see in the CA forum, like myself. I guess we just know when we seea well put together motor

[tyrannix]

im about to get out, either for school or forcably medically also (just under 5 years sofar for me.. but same deal, i just happened to get a midnight purple 89 silvia Ks and it happened to have an awesome engine (and some nonstandard turbo with a bunch of go fast goodies on it)

the 4 port head is actually in oki right now (it was alot cheaper for it to get shipped to my friend, then he ship it to me) so its on the way

i just (about an hour ago) got home from con-way, piucked up the CA20 (whole engine)

im waiting on confirmation of the crank

got a tomei 6 bolt 5kg flywheel (for the 6 bolt fully counterbalanced crank)

i have another ca18det in pieces that would be glad to donate its oil squirters and crank girdle to the project

and a brand spankin new OEM oil pump sitting in the garage

i got semi explicit instructions from fraz on what needs to happen, need to retap the threads for the head bolts, and drill+tap for the timing belt pulley

need to get a custom timing belt (because the ca20 block is 20mm taller)

and he says evo rods+bearings and 84.5mm honda pistons will work (i might go with tomei pistons.. im not at that stage yet, collecting parts and seeing what im working with

and the vg30 valve springs and lifters with (your advise?) tomei 260/10.25 I 270/10.25 E cams

and either a stock head gasket (rather a stock headgasket blow than cause something really expensive to happen) or the tomei 1.5mm thats on the current engine and slap a stocker on that one

gotta try and do some math to figure what turbo to use (it should be flowing more air with that lift?) need to find the VE for it

and i plan to do the 'mototuneusa' "port smaller== more power" method on teh 4 port head

(also stopped by a speed shop, dyno time $90/hr or $80/hr for a half day and the guy is experienced with powerFCs (for the current engine)